The whole thing is still within the bounds of "extreme incompetence is indistinguishable from malice" so that if the cleaning lady was pilfering on her own account, there needs to be no other malignant actor in the game. It sure felt paranoid at that time, because I had no reason to expect extreme incompetence (nor malice, of course) from a hotel that I had patroned for over 10 years.
As a comparison, Hotel Kämp, which is the only $2,000+ hotel in Finland, also failed in many counts, but I had no reason to expect better, so it was not suspicious, just sad. (And yes, Justin Bieber occupied the small room just next to us.)
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 27809. (Read 26710313 times)
May 09, 2014, 03:51:56 AM
May 09, 2014, 03:49:46 AM
What the F*** does that mean?
Are you suggesting things are looking more bullish?
Or that TERA's bears are as good as gentlemand's spiders.
(gentlemand, I think your spider was wonderful and I'd definitely buy one for the asking price)
no , it´s a TA figure ( horny market formation)
1st down , then back up, no net change
May 09, 2014, 03:44:28 AM
What the F*** does that mean?
Are you suggesting things are looking more bullish?
Or that TERA's bears are as good as gentlemand's spiders.
(gentlemand, I think your spider was wonderful and I'd definitely buy one for the asking price)
May 09, 2014, 03:43:05 AM
but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
What the F*** does that mean?
That I cannot say for sure, that any of the bitcoins were stolen, which means that in high probability none of them were.
Did you keep all your keys and passcodes on the computer? Did you not have it written down on a paper wallet? Did you not know your address for these coins? How the hell could you not retrieve them or AT LEAST know whether they were stolen?
And what do you mean by "counted?" You got them back? If you got them back, how were they stolen? Your computer could have been stolen, but if they had no access to the coins or didn't know how to access them, then that doesn't count as stolen coins.
Why is it that your sentences are so hard to understand?
May 09, 2014, 03:40:59 AM
It means he counted them but had no idea how many there were supposed to be 
May 09, 2014, 03:40:36 AM
but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
What the F*** does that mean?
That I cannot say for sure, that any of the bitcoins were stolen, which means that in high probability none of them were.
May 09, 2014, 03:35:35 AM
What the F*** does that mean?
Are you suggesting things are looking more bullish?
May 09, 2014, 03:35:13 AM
The sauna was chosen as the security room because of its location (in this satellite photo, it is the building in the tip of "Ennäsudden", with only 60° sector towards the land, and 300° to the sea with big windows all around. One man could spot any intruders from 100 meters away and we planned on having a guard there for the time when we it would otherwise been empty. The management of the hotel was informed of the special needs, they rented this out for the entire duration of the conference....
....and something went horribly wrong the very first night, when the hotel staff not only forced us to move to other rooms in violation to the previous understanding, but also visited the sauna multiple times, and also stole our stuff there.
It was greatly stressful to be unsure whether the laptop was copied or not (and I still don't know), but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
Bottom line: I don't know. In my hotel there will be a security manager, and if we agree on security with a customer, it will be delivered. Simple. (Should be)
....and something went horribly wrong the very first night, when the hotel staff not only forced us to move to other rooms in violation to the previous understanding, but also visited the sauna multiple times, and also stole our stuff there.
It was greatly stressful to be unsure whether the laptop was copied or not (and I still don't know), but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
Bottom line: I don't know. In my hotel there will be a security manager, and if we agree on security with a customer, it will be delivered. Simple. (Should be)
What the F*** does that mean?
May 09, 2014, 03:15:05 AM
The sauna was chosen as the security room because of its location (in this satellite photo, it is the building in the tip of "Ennäsudden", with only 60° sector towards the land, and 300° to the sea with big windows all around. One man could spot any intruders from 100 meters away and we planned on having a guard there for the time when we it would otherwise been empty. The management of the hotel was informed of the special needs, they rented this out for the entire duration of the conference....
....and something went horribly wrong the very first night, when the hotel staff not only forced us to move to other rooms in violation to the previous understanding, but also visited the sauna multiple times, and also stole our stuff there.
It was greatly stressful to be unsure whether the laptop was copied or not (and I still don't know), but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
Bottom line: I don't know. In my hotel there will be a security manager, and if we agree on security with a customer, it will be delivered. Simple. (Should be)
....and something went horribly wrong the very first night, when the hotel staff not only forced us to move to other rooms in violation to the previous understanding, but also visited the sauna multiple times, and also stole our stuff there.
It was greatly stressful to be unsure whether the laptop was copied or not (and I still don't know), but the bitcoins were later counted and I cannot say conclusively whether any were stolen. I am leaning towards the scenario that the management made a big blunder, and failed in the aftermath. The thief was a hotel cleaning lady, and that the laptop was probably not touched.
Bottom line: I don't know. In my hotel there will be a security manager, and if we agree on security with a customer, it will be delivered. Simple. (Should be)
May 09, 2014, 03:08:09 AM
I'm curious. What actually happened? (about the lost coins / laptop / sauna / beach / moon)
That shit was hilarious. Comedy gold!
Back then his trolling was funny. Now it's just sad.
May 09, 2014, 03:07:53 AM
Do you think that China fear the bitcoin?
No. Chinese gov. fears AliPay, Alibaba's version of PayPal.
Alibaba accounts for ~60%-80% of e-commerce, so Alipay transacts a lot.
May 09, 2014, 03:03:28 AM
May 09, 2014, 03:00:57 AM
May 09, 2014, 02:59:47 AM
I'm curious. What actually happened? (about the lost coins / laptop / sauna / beach / moon)
This is the gist of it. It's implied that some number of coins were lost but it's unknown if they were recovered. There's more if you have a look at this thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rpietila-public-diary-174620
Translated text from Finnish original added in blue in front of original text (thank you rebuilder):
.....
-The staff of the hotel had entered the sauna space on at least 3 separate occasions in the first 24 hours alone, of a sauna reservation of 59 hours length in total, despite prior agreement to the contrary, it being clearly mentioned in the daily order [that the sauna is not to be entered at will, I presume] and repeated reminders of this. Some of the entries happened when we were not guarding the sauna since we had been asked to retire to our rooms by 24:00 at the latest, although the sauna was in our uninterrupted use from thursday 10:00 to saturday 23:00. Already on friday 10.5 between 00 and 12 o'clock personal items belonging to conference participants had gone missing from the sauna. Additionally the sauna had been cleaned, so that our ability to discover the full amount of lost/stolen property immediately as the conference was still ongoing was weakened.
The main host of the conference (Pietilä) ordered an internal preliminary investigation on the matter on fri. 10.5. at approx. 18 hours. He used as personnel mainly himself and acting host ["responsible/trustee host"] Roni Blomberg, a hotel employee by the name of "Butler Charlotta" and a representative of the maintenance company, "Mikke". By approximately 8 o'clock saturday morning, the preliminary investigation led to the understanding at least 1 bitcoin worth of property had been lost (repurchase value of identifiably lost items), but private keys possibly used to store bitcoins had been copied/destroyed to a greater extent. Among other things, Pietilä's Macbook Air computer was at the sauna for the entire night, thursday-friday 9.-10.5
Our estimate of the upper bound of damages is 100000 bitcoins (market value approx. 9,1 million euro, repurchase value with immediate market operation approx. 10,2 million euro). Damages are divided in two parts, copied and lost bitcoin private keys.
For copied private keys the situation can be sorted out by transferring all the bitcoins of all the participants to different addresses, at which point we weill see, whether they have in the meantime been unrightfully spent. Finding this out must happen a soon as possible (if private keys have been saved, no financial loss will be caused, unless they are unrightfully used before the legal owner transfers them to a new, safe address). Due to the extremely strict security requirements of handling private keys required to use large amounts of bitcoins, the operation is however labour-intensive and carrying it out must be done by each participant such, that most of the work can not be delegated. For example an inventory of bitcoins of Pietilä and the companies he owns/leads requires about 16 hors of work to complete. Pietilä's own consulting fees (list price http://hopea.fi/bitcoin-kurssihistoria/) in April have varied between 600-2400 euro. This is one of the most urgent tasks, which will override most other markings in Pietilä's calendar for the week 13.-19.5.
The sum of money lost due to loss of private keys can not be reliably found out, but we believe the participants will notice if the sum rises to the thousands of bitcoins. This will be found out in about a week (a week is also our ETA for finding out the sum total of stolen bitcoins).
....
Risto Pietilä.
.....
-The staff of the hotel had entered the sauna space on at least 3 separate occasions in the first 24 hours alone, of a sauna reservation of 59 hours length in total, despite prior agreement to the contrary, it being clearly mentioned in the daily order [that the sauna is not to be entered at will, I presume] and repeated reminders of this. Some of the entries happened when we were not guarding the sauna since we had been asked to retire to our rooms by 24:00 at the latest, although the sauna was in our uninterrupted use from thursday 10:00 to saturday 23:00. Already on friday 10.5 between 00 and 12 o'clock personal items belonging to conference participants had gone missing from the sauna. Additionally the sauna had been cleaned, so that our ability to discover the full amount of lost/stolen property immediately as the conference was still ongoing was weakened.
The main host of the conference (Pietilä) ordered an internal preliminary investigation on the matter on fri. 10.5. at approx. 18 hours. He used as personnel mainly himself and acting host ["responsible/trustee host"] Roni Blomberg, a hotel employee by the name of "Butler Charlotta" and a representative of the maintenance company, "Mikke". By approximately 8 o'clock saturday morning, the preliminary investigation led to the understanding at least 1 bitcoin worth of property had been lost (repurchase value of identifiably lost items), but private keys possibly used to store bitcoins had been copied/destroyed to a greater extent. Among other things, Pietilä's Macbook Air computer was at the sauna for the entire night, thursday-friday 9.-10.5
Our estimate of the upper bound of damages is 100000 bitcoins (market value approx. 9,1 million euro, repurchase value with immediate market operation approx. 10,2 million euro). Damages are divided in two parts, copied and lost bitcoin private keys.
For copied private keys the situation can be sorted out by transferring all the bitcoins of all the participants to different addresses, at which point we weill see, whether they have in the meantime been unrightfully spent. Finding this out must happen a soon as possible (if private keys have been saved, no financial loss will be caused, unless they are unrightfully used before the legal owner transfers them to a new, safe address). Due to the extremely strict security requirements of handling private keys required to use large amounts of bitcoins, the operation is however labour-intensive and carrying it out must be done by each participant such, that most of the work can not be delegated. For example an inventory of bitcoins of Pietilä and the companies he owns/leads requires about 16 hors of work to complete. Pietilä's own consulting fees (list price http://hopea.fi/bitcoin-kurssihistoria/) in April have varied between 600-2400 euro. This is one of the most urgent tasks, which will override most other markings in Pietilä's calendar for the week 13.-19.5.
The sum of money lost due to loss of private keys can not be reliably found out, but we believe the participants will notice if the sum rises to the thousands of bitcoins. This will be found out in about a week (a week is also our ETA for finding out the sum total of stolen bitcoins).
....
Risto Pietilä.
Now I try hard to minimize the risk to the well-being of anyone, and to raise the stakes in the game described as follows: if someone actually copied the private keys there (I had access to over 6000 bitcoins unencrypted, open in my computer browser windows during the time it was compromised), he will have to suffer the fact becoming public in its entirety + all the details, if he spends the bitcoins before I have the time to spend them myself. Due to extensive precautions involved, it will take me approximately a week of calendar time + several thousand dollars, to fully ensure that the bitcoins are safe, by sending them to uncompromised addresses. I plan to concentrate on that during this week.
May 09, 2014, 02:57:59 AM
Do you think that China fear the bitcoin?
May 09, 2014, 02:55:16 AM
I'm curious. What actually happened? (about the lost coins / laptop / sauna / beach / moon)
coins / laptop / sauna & beach they ALL went to da moon
May 09, 2014, 02:50:57 AM
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2014/05/minitrue-gao-yu-dispute-vietnam-bitcoin/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chinadigitaltimes%2FbKzO+%28China+Digital+Times+%28CDT%29%29
more interesting is that China is probably afraid of bitcoin.
more interesting is that China is probably afraid of bitcoin.
May 09, 2014, 02:46:16 AM
I'm curious. What actually happened? (about the lost coins / laptop / sauna / beach / moon)
May 09, 2014, 02:01:00 AM
May 09, 2014, 02:00:01 AM
Like the coins that you allegedly lost by taking an unsecured laptop to an sauna party, where it got stolen.
Source?
Not sure if your intention is to troll the troll, but to be fair I read that post of yours too last year.
Another reason why the forum should NOT allow the editing of posts or the removal of posts, except under exceptional circumstances.
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