Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28759. (Read 26611238 times)

For me, that is one of the most scary things: large numbers of people being convinced that governments and laws are bad, and therefore rejecting democracy and democratic politics.  Historically, those people have always been instruments of parties that overthrow democratic governments to install opressive dictatorships.


China and Southeast Asia seem to be improving, not sure about the rest.  Parts of Africa are getting worse...

Explanation

BTCUSD	559.38	559.38	541.00	0.516638572445605
GBPUSD	1.6487	1.6487	1.6486	-2.21714163793833
EURUSD	1.3794	1.3794	1.3793	-2.13969022165297
JPYUSD	0.0098	0.0098	0.0098	---
UAHUSD	0.0950	0.0950	0.0950	---

Without Petrolum we won't even have the time to think about the environnement because we would be too occupied to survive

Petrolum allowed us to build so much and allowed us to have time and ressources to pursue other projects than just feeding ourselves

Solar panels, windmills and "renewable" energy sources don't only use fuel-based infrastructure, they use a lot of rare metals and you need to use a lot of water and pollute a lot to extract a rare metal

More than that: the loss/gain in "real wealth" (or quality of life, or hapiness, whatever) is not linear in the dollar amounts.

In those examples, consider a 100 k$ investment that has 60% change or returning 200 k$, 40% chance of returning 0$.  For the millionaire, value is pertty much proportional to dollars. So his expected return over investment is +40 k$, so he definitely should take the chance.

For the guy with the 200 k$ house and no savings, the life improvement that he would get from an extra 100 k$  profit is nowere comparable to the consequences of a 100 k$ loss.  For him  the real expected returnover investment is negative, so he shoudl not take that investment.


Lots of things; but my skepticism applies to any reasonable defintion, from "consumers buying things through the internet" to "all payments in the world".


I am not sure I understand.  Its supposed "deflationary" character is a substantial argument against its adoption as a currency, but that is not my reason.

Actually I have no strong feelings about what its price will do in the medium term.  Its price is not tied to anything, there is no argument that would justifify why its price now is 500$, why it was 800$ two months ago, why it can't be 5,000$ or 5$ tomorrow.  It is the result of suply and demand, sure, but the demand is due to perceptions of future prices that are not based on anything. "The market" thinks that it is worth 500$, but no trader can convincingly explain why.

To make the point clearer,  consider the "extreme libertarian" scenario where Bitcoin (THIS bitcoin) is the only currency in use for all payments.

In that scenario, every person in the world is forced to keep his money stored in one single "bank", the Bitcoin Network.  That "bank" is different in many ways from the banks we have now, publlic or private.  One may argue whether these differences are advantages or disarvantages, but that still is not my point.

In that scenario, the money held by every person in the world is determined by its balance on that "bank"'s ledger, the BTC blockchain.

In that scenario, the BTC blockchain is still the same blockchain that Satoshi started and is in use today. 

But, in this blockchain, all the BTC that exist now, which is more than 50% of all the money that will exist in that scenario, are already assigned to a few thousand people.  And the coins that are yet to be found will be given exclusively to the "bankers" -- the miners who keep the "bank" running.

Moreover, the vast majority of the existing coins are in the hands of people who did nothing more than run an algorithm in their laptop for some time, or  invest a few thousand dollars.  Worse, the owners of those coins include all sorts of scammers and sleazy entrepreneurs, criminals, corrupt officials,  and common thieves  -- such as the MtGOX Thief, be it Mark or anyone else -- who have amassed large hoards of bitcoins by unethcal tricks, or worse.

Now, do you think that, if the world decides that cryptocoins are a god idea, they will create their "global universal bank" with a ledger that, right from the outset, assigns all the money in the world to those people?

Granted that the "extreme libertarian" scenario is extremely unlikely by itself.  But the problem remains even in more limited scenarios where bitcoin is used only for some fraction of the e-commerce.   Anyone who adopts BTC as currency will be sharing his real weatlh with the current BTC owners, just as anyone who uses dollars is sharing his real wealth with the US government (or US citizens, if you wish).  Will people accept that?  Will governments allow that?  (Why is it that they don't allow private money?)

It's a lot easier to catch falling knives when it's just buying back the coins you sold on the way up. That way momentum traders give me dollars AND coinz.

Keep in mind that we need a fossil fuel-based infrastructure to produce solar panels, windmills and other so-called renewable energy sources. Producing things like electric cars and solar panels is very expensive (and extremely energy intensive), having a very low EROEI. We depend on oil and coal in ways most of us can't even imagine. (More than 95 % of everyday products we're dependent on, are either made from oil directly -- or indirectly reliant on a fossil fuel-infrastructure.)
An oil-based infrastructure is essential for our civilization -- so now, when we're running out of these types of fuel, this civilization must necessarily grind to a halt. And that's exactly what we're seeing, although the crisis is camouflaged as a debt/credit crisis.
Expect to see a lot harder austerity measures and bankster bailouts (and bail-ins) as the fight over ever scarcer natural resources intensifies.

The price could go as low as 250-300$ before it start climbing to new highs, I understand what you say about BTC being fu.cked if the price goes as low as 100$ but you can think of a scenario where the price goes as low as 100$ then climb to new highs

Some big BTC holders are waiting for 2000$ 3000$ 5000$ or sometimes way more before they will sell, traders follow the trends and everyday tens of persons that didn't Bitcoin a few month ago are buying a few BTC or more in hope of a long term gain

Whoever was dumping at 557 for the past 12 hours appears to have run out of coins.

Bitcoin will fall until it's not falling anymore and no one can stop it or change that. I believed when Bitcoin finally got to $15 it would go up forever. Then I sat on my coins for months at $2 waiting for the rise.

All the MAJOR BTC holders, and I do mean ALL, bought lower than 100 -- most, much lower.  At 100, they are extremely well served.  Shed not a tear for the lonesome whale.

Agreed.  I would not waste my time hoping for what can never be.

I have seen him in full troll mode - but he's been making more sense of late....  

Well, OK.  Maybe I will have to go back to assuming he's trolling.

it can be very dangerous to try catching falling knives

When BTC gets as low as $100 you can forget your $2500,- per BTC price.

Honestly, that would be impossible. Yes I know, 2 years ago they said the same about the price reaching $100,-. And the year before that they said it would never reach $50,-.

If it goes as low as a $100,- major BTC holders are pretty much fucked. Whomever hopes for coins that reach $100 should buy altcoins and stay away from BTC.

The price right now is a price to buy in. IMHO.

I'm of the same thinking...  seems to be pretty dumb-ass -  unless there is some kind of insider information that we don't know about...

Don't want a hundred bucks. I want MOAR coinz!

It seems like your skepticism of Bitcoin can be attributed to your disposition as much if not more than to any particular flaw you see. 

Jaroslaw is always trolling but since his permaban he's a lot slicker now.

I'll give you a hundred bucks for everything. You can keep the teeth.

Not to jump into other people's conversations but, you do realize most if not all of what Walsoraj writes is intended as a troll type argument. Please rest assured that not even Wally knows what he said.