Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28770.

seleme

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:34:32 PM

Quote from: shmadz on March 21, 2014, 10:31:09 PM

Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:26:01 PM

0% fees are good in flat markets, I don't particularly care about fees when big swings are imminent. If I'm making 15-20% on a trade, I don't really care about 0.5% fees.

0.5% would be quite acceptable, I've been dealing with 1.5%, which is mostly why I'm no longer trading. Hodling only now.

I'm curious seleme, do you think the 0% fee structure will take over and become the norm? It certainly seems like the asian markets are going that way.

I don't see point in 0% fees. Why would anyone run a business without making profit on it? It smells shady.

Bitcoin exchanges fees are huge compered to other markets but 0% is not normal.

They make money by using their advantage to play their own exchange.

yep, that's why I said - It smells shady

seleme

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Quote from: rezurect on March 22, 2014, 12:33:37 AM

HODLing for so long. Too tired to sell. Sure ill regret not not selling looking @ the charts.

Doeesnt the VISA-Mastercard deposit/withdrawal method at btc-e open BTC up for most people who cant do international bank transfers to exchanges and everybody who has cards. Isnt that great news? Mass userbase ??

it's only withdrawal

Spaceman_Spiff

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₪``Campaign Manager´´₪

chart is looking ugly imho.

Hypnoise

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Quote from: chessnut on March 22, 2014, 12:36:26 AM

how can the liquidity be so darn dry?? its embarrassing!! I guess it's a good sign that we are still in early days though. but its just creepy how dry the market is.

liquidity stack in LTC, I guess.

Hypnoise

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Quote from: adamstgBit on March 21, 2014, 01:49:06 PM

bitcoin is worth more then cash.

just stay in fiat when it crash

chessnut

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how can the liquidity be so darn dry?? its embarrassing!! I guess it's a good sign that we are still in early days though. but its just creepy how dry the market is.

PoolMinor

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XXXVII Fnord is toast without bread

Off-Topic:

Here are some balls to look at: http://stereogrammes.org/v/balls.gif.html

rezurect

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HODLing for so long. Too tired to sell. Sure ill regret not not selling looking @ the charts.

Doeesnt the VISA-Mastercard deposit/withdrawal method at btc-e open BTC up for most people who cant do international bank transfers to exchanges and everybody who has cards. Isnt that great news? Mass userbase ??

KeyserSoze

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on March 21, 2014, 10:52:47 PM

Am I guessing wrong?

Dunno. Not into guns and such myself. Just offering some cultural M80 info.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:34:32 PM

I don't see point in 0% fees. Why would anyone run a business without making profit on it? It smells shady.
Bitcoin exchanges fees are huge compered to other markets but 0% is not normal.

They may make money from lending. From Huobi's site (Google Translate, slightly edited):

Quote

国内首家提供借款借币的比特币、莱特币交易平台，无论涨跌，在火币网您都能轻松获利
Provide the first domestic borrowing by currency Bitcoin, Litecoin currency trading platform, whether up or down, the Huobi net profit that you can easily

Huobi at least has fees for withdrawal:

Quote

火币网支持以下现金充值方式
火币点卡充值0手续费，7×24小时实时到账
银行汇款0手续费，火币网收到汇款后2小时内到账
处理时间09:30--19:00

火币网支持以下现金提现方式
银行卡提现手续费0.3%--0.5%，24小时以内到账
处理时间09:00--18:00

DEPOSIT
Huobi net cash recharge way to support the following
Huobi TOPUP 0 fee, 7 × 24 hour real-time arrival
0 bank transfer fees, Huobi remittance network within two hours after receiving Daozhang
Processing time 09:30 - 19:00

WITHDRAWAL
Huobi network supports the following cash-way
Bank card withdrawal fee of 0.3% - 0.5%, less than 24 hours Daozhang
Processing time 09:00 - 18:00

I understand that they issue their own card, good for deposits ("Huobi TOPUP" above).

Their withdrawals seems to be a little bit faster than MtGOX.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: KeyserSoze on March 21, 2014, 10:00:14 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on March 21, 2014, 09:04:54 PM

... Roger Ver ... "M80"s

m80's can blow fingers off but they are still kinda popular especially in more rural areas. It's one of the reasons we have laws on the limits for the more common fireworks because m80s used to be more popular and kids were blowing fingers off. This was probably 20-40 years ago. But again, in rural areas, people use them for killing varmints and illegal fishing, farm kind of stuff.

Thanks, but the "Pest Control 2000" seem to be ammunition rater than just firecrackers. That is what I infer from these posts in that blog:

Quote

Why not just buy them [ bird bombs? ], I've used a product from a company called Blamo Ammo, and they make a bird bomb. It's a 12 gauge shotgun shell with a "load" on a "time fuse" as you shoot the "bird bomb" out into a tree, orchard whatever, and then "BAM" once it reaches it's target it blows. Very cool. This is the same company that you can buy tracer ammo from and other cool shells and bullets.

Quote

the pest control 2000 messed up the market.
hell i even bought some of those at a pgi convention years back.

Quote

Also put a very good American manufacturer out of business. That was a shame.

Am I guessing wrong?

That Blammo Ammo company (now apparently called Fun Ammo), makes some rather, uh, "fun" things: http://everything2.com/title/exotic+shotgun+ammo

mooncake

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on March 21, 2014, 10:34:10 PM

I have been listing only those that bitcoinwisdom carries. I could add some from bicoincharts too. Unfortunately bitcoincharts does not carry any of the big Chinese exchanges, not even Huobi; and 80% of the entries in their menu seem to be dead or insignificant exchanges.

Is there another convenient source for daily volumes? I don't mind copying by hand from the screen, but would rather not wait a minute for a site to load and then try to find the daily volume in a Thai or Mandarin page. And I would rather have volumes for UTC days, not local days,

lakeBTC typical volume seems to be 0.6 kBTC, by the way

You can find lakeBTC in bitcoincharts. Their BTC/USD volume is >3K BTC ATM.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:34:32 PM

Quote from: shmadz on March 21, 2014, 10:31:09 PM

Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:26:01 PM

0% fees are good in flat markets, I don't particularly care about fees when big swings are imminent. If I'm making 15-20% on a trade, I don't really care about 0.5% fees.

0.5% would be quite acceptable, I've been dealing with 1.5%, which is mostly why I'm no longer trading. Hodling only now.

I'm curious seleme, do you think the 0% fee structure will take over and become the norm? It certainly seems like the asian markets are going that way.

I don't see point in 0% fees. Why would anyone run a business without making profit on it? It smells shady.

Bitcoin exchanges fees are huge compered to other markets but 0% is not normal.

Thanks,

I think it's maybe like those "free to play, pay to win" games - they will offer certain advantages to those that pay for them...

just a guess.

seleme

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Quote from: shmadz on March 21, 2014, 10:31:09 PM

Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:26:01 PM

0% fees are good in flat markets, I don't particularly care about fees when big swings are imminent. If I'm making 15-20% on a trade, I don't really care about 0.5% fees.

0.5% would be quite acceptable, I've been dealing with 1.5%, which is mostly why I'm no longer trading. Hodling only now.

I'm curious seleme, do you think the 0% fee structure will take over and become the norm? It certainly seems like the asian markets are going that way.

I don't see point in 0% fees. Why would anyone run a business without making profit on it? It smells shady.

Bitcoin exchanges fees are huge compered to other markets but 0% is not normal.

JorgeStolfi

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Activity: 910

Merit: 1003

Quote from: mooncake on March 21, 2014, 10:10:24 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on March 21, 2014, 08:23:07 PM

Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):[ ... ]

Can you add lakeBTC as well?

I have been listing only those that bitcoinwisdom carries. I could add some from bicoincharts too. Unfortunately bitcoincharts does not carry any of the big Chinese exchanges, not even Huobi; and 80% of the entries in their menu seem to be dead or insignificant exchanges.

Is there another convenient source for daily volumes? I don't mind copying by hand from the screen, but would rather not wait a minute for a site to load and then try to find the daily volume in a Thai or Mandarin page. And I would rather have volumes for UTC days, not local days,

lakeBTC typical volume seems to be 0.6 kBTC, by the way

shmadz

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Quote from: seleme on March 21, 2014, 10:26:01 PM

0% fees are good in flat markets, I don't particularly care about fees when big swings are imminent. If I'm making 15-20% on a trade, I don't really care about 0.5% fees.

0.5% would be quite acceptable, I've been dealing with 1.5%, which is mostly why I'm no longer trading. Hodling only now.

I'm curious seleme, do you think the 0% fee structure will take over and become the norm? It certainly seems like the asian markets are going that way.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on March 21, 2014, 09:13:43 PM

Quote from: shmadz on March 21, 2014, 08:49:23 PM

how much value can you give to volume if there are no fees?

I didn't state any value, those are the numbers and I believe they are mostly real trades between competing traders.

However, I wrote earlier why I think that those numbers do matter: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5801780

Zero fees explain the larger volume, but do not make it irrelevant. If McDonalds had 10 times the sales than Burger King by offering free drinks, this reason would not make their sales less significant.

Thanks, but I think if you actually traded on a site that had fees, and then traded on a site that had none, you might have a better understanding of what I'm talking about.

Seriously, there is something to be said for street learning *meaning go out there and just do it, get your feet wet*

vs book learning *an academic interest only*

seleme

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0% fees are good in flat markets, I don't particularly care about fees when big swings are imminent. If I'm making 15-20% on a trade, I don't really care about 0.5% fees.

surfer43

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"Trading Platform of The Future!"

Yeah the difference in buy and sell orders would go way down with 0 fees.

shmadz

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 21, 2014, 09:16:30 PM

Quote from: shmadz on March 21, 2014, 08:49:23 PM

Hi JorgeStolfi

how much value can you give to volume if there are no fees?

thanks

I am pretty sure that my trading inclination is much affected upon the size of the fee(s)... and zero fees would turn me into a trading hawk... rather than a trading dove.

I get scared by BTC-e's measly .2% fee.... .b/c I figure that I gotta make .4% just to break even... and stamp is like .5% for the little rollers, like me, and coinbase charges me 1% (even though that is NOT technically trading).. These fees all add up to disincentives, at least for me.

Maybe any measurement of exchange volume should be adjusted based on the size of the fee..... especially if comparing one exchange to another.

yeah, I guess you kinda summed it up. When I consider the kind of swings I need on Virtex with 1.5% fees, I mean, 0% fees is a freakin' playground. I don't think you can take anything serious there.

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