Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28878. (Read 26610084 times)

First of all, it sounds as if you may have been watching too much Fox news, and you have a very narrow view of the situation (including the auto industry) which causes you to resort to personal attacks, and trying to attempt to assert that you have some kind of superior view of what is going on and that you are part of some enlightened group...  

Unions are NOT to blame for these supposed troubles that you attempt to describe.  For example, Germany is highly unionized, but they did NOT suffer the same troubles as the US in 2008 ish and thereafter, in part b/c of the unionization in Germany had input into the direction of the companies in germany and did NOT allow capitalists to vulturize companies to reduce jobs and wages and to paint some kind of fantasy land scenario that you describe.... about competition and that non-union is best and that we gotta be exploited in order to compete.. BS....

YES we already know your solution for nearly everything seems to be to get rid of government and to blame people, in spite of the fact that the wealthy have been extracting wealth from the people and NOT paying taxes and debilitating government in various ways....   which causes regular and poor people to have to bear more of the burden of what the rich should be contributing.   And the politicians have been going along with all of this  redistribution of wealth towards the rich... both parties have been going along with it... b/c there is too much money influencing politics and reducing the facilitation of democratic input.




EXACTLY.....

nah, now you are just plappering the stuff the lobbyists want you to think. gm and co failed because they didn't adapt to the changing market, not because labor was too expensive. in fact, if they pay their workers a good wage, they will buy new cars instead of used ones and will buy them more often instead of driving them until they are worth only the scrap-metal price.

look at countries with real worker unions, eg. germany. didn't got the notion that they are completely inable to deal on an international scale and compete in both, prices and quality.

i still just don't get it that people really believe this stuff. "hey, we need to pay you less, so we can grow each year and satisfy the investors." basically they are just moving money from your pocket (reduced wage) into the pockets of the billionaires (artificial growth by lowering production cost -> thus higher share value and dividends). to someone as sophisticated as this audience (more or less into investment) it should be plainly obvious.

What planet are you living on? GM almost went out of business because the United auto-workers drove up input costs to the point that they could make no profits. Not small profits. NO PROFITS. Hummer and Oldsmobile had to be shut down because they just couldn't compete. Detroit is now a third world hellhole. Nonunion car factories are springing all over the south and the grandsons of the southerners who migrated to Detroit are migrating back.  You are not doing the laborers of the world any favors by driving their employers out of business. This has played out the same way in every heavily unionized industry on earth except for government workers.

I can guess what your solution will be: force every car maker to unionize. So then cars are too expensive to drive, workers get laid off anyway and we all have to ride the fucking bus to work, if we are lucky enough to have jobs at all. Can you even try to see yourself from our perspective? You appear crazy.

Explanation

Great Analogy.... !!!!

Even though you do NOT know about politics and the role of government in society, you certainly know about the bitcoin network.        




Another good point!!!!!!       

You know you have an anti-fragile system when the worst thing your enemies can do is throw money at you.

You have too many presumptions in your descriptions of events... and you are talking gobbledy gook.  First you praise and generalize about capitalists and then you suggest that the solution is to take away regulation.  That is all bullshit.  The problems that we have been having in recent times can be attributed too much liberty being given to capitalists and labor and government has been either too weak or too chickenshit to challenge the exploitation being carried out by capitalist.  Look at the situation created as recently as since 2008 whereby jobs have been removed to bust unions and to make people unemployed and to reintroduce jobs at fractions of the previous rates.  It was already bad before 2008, but got worse b/c capitalists (especially the filthy rich ones  - NOT talking about the mom and pop capitalists, here) were given too much freedom and NOT taxed and allowed to remove jobs and capital and NOT to reinvest. 

I am guessing, but I thought that the network just processes transactions in the order received, and if there is a fee attached, then those transactions are processed first. 

Billions is a lot... and I suppose that the problem could be made worse by creating some repetition of the transactions - after the first ones are processed, they are put back into the cue.

 If there are so many transactions that the network is overwhelmed... the network may go down for a period of time. and then maybe a fork in the code to restart?  YES>... I am continuing to guess.

The harm to the network would be less than the cost to the spammers. It would be like fighting you by punching your fist with my face.

Competitors then go to wash dishes in Chinese restaurants.

Capitalists are savers. that's how they get capital. They should get rewards for delayed gratification and risk-taking. If they judge wrong and the market (which is society) doesn't value their goods or services at a price they can sustainably charge, then they lose money no matter how hard they worked. Entrepreneurs only get paid for results, not effort. They only get paid when they contribute. They are heroes.

Now in our modern system, entrepreneurs may not be savers. They may just have access to credit for arbitrary reasons. They may use the political system to shield themselves from competition. This is a total distortion of the free market and is not capitalism. You socialists like to use the political system to exploit capitalists, but that is not a better outcome. Consumers (and we are all consumers) get harmed because businesses must either charge higher prices to offset higher input costs or go out of business.

The only way to prevent either group from harming or exploiting the other is to remove the political factor and take the gun out of the room. When anything becomes mandatory or banned, somebody loses. When exchange of labor, money, goods or services is voluntary, both parties win. If they didn't, there would be no exchange.

To stop legitimate transactions, they have to be willing to pay more in fees than the legitimate transaction senders.  If they are willing to pay more, there isn't much we can do but wait for them to run out of coins.

Actually no, you don't.

 Very Funny.... and witty, Billyjoeallen... even though you are missing the point about how the capitalist is able to take all the surplus value from the increased benefits and to put them into his pocket.





Seems as if you are attempting to define some world that does NOT exist if you are suggesting that all market exchanges are voluntary.  In the real world, actions and reactions of people fall into a broad array of categories, and these kinds of interactions need to be accounted for when we are attempting to organize a society.  From my understanding, most people would prefer NOT to live in a society in which they fear for their lives b/c they are walking down the street wearing a $100 watch.

So here is a stupid question to kill time: Suppose the Evil Lords decide to use the bitcoins seized from Silk Road and other places to kill bitcoin by spamming it with billions of tiny transactions, as fast as they can.  How would the network defend itself from that attack?

It is 2pm in China already, and if trading keep going like it has been going all morning, the daily volume at Huobi and OKCoin will be a record low. 

I do NOT agree that technology is a sole purpose to destroy work.  We should NOT necessarily be hostile to technology. 

One of the central problems with technology, though is that frequently it is used to distract labor from unionization and solidarity and thereby the capitalists frequently become able to use and abuse technology in such a way that they extract nearly all of the surplus for themselves and use technology to divide and conquer, workers, labor and community.  In the end, workers become more and more exploited by this b/c frequently if there are NOT strong governments and/or strong unions, they are NOT allowed to reap(enjoy) the benefits of the technological innovations.

People who believe in no government and/or no unions also seem to believe in trickle down economics, as if giving the money to the capitalists and the rich, that some how, miraculously, that money will trickle down to the people and somehow suggesting that the capitalists deserve to take all the surplus value.. so they can be rainmakers.  Frequently, however, we have seen that trickle down does NOT work and there are failures to invest in infrastructure, and running away with the capital and even capitalists who engage in behavior to accumulate much more capital than they need or want... and the situation with these filthy rich is NO longer about the accumulation of capital but a form of keeping the capital away from the masses b/c they want to control and exploit the masses and they want to insist that capital is NOT distributed to regular people... b/c of desires to keep an exploitable group willing to work for anything..

The price has barely moved in nine hours. We have to talk about something.

It seems that this particular quasi-side track began with comments about Mt. Gox, and thereby accusing and alleging that Mt. Gox had been engaged in thievery and/or fraud. 

Thereafter, the comment that thievery is the same no matter who is taking the money, and another suggestion that government taxation was the same as thievery...   

The conversation devolved from there into various assertions about the role of government.     

Actually, nearly any conversation can devolve comparing and contrasting visions concerning the role of government and inspire the setting forth ideas about the past, present and future.

High unemployment rates are solely the result of minimum wage laws and other government intervention. Every job hunter could get a job if he was willing to accept a wage that would allow his employer to profitably employ him, given his productivity level. Walmart wage suppression allows Walmart to pass the cost saving onto customers. There is no net harm to society. Some win. Some lose. Thems the breaks.



We all either directly or indirectly benefit from these externalities. I once lived in a town with a pulp mill. We called that smog from the smokestacks the smell of money. When the mill closed down, 300 workers lost their jobs at the mill, another two thousand lost work because businesses closed that were supported by mill workers and I got to breath cleaner air and live in a ghost town. You may value clean air more than me and the enjoyment of neighbors less than me, but on average (judging by the way property values plummeted) most people don't.