Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28881. (Read 26610046 times)

I think that those are the very factors that various centralized clones are going to decide, implement and screw up b/c they are NOT going to want to give up control, and then in the end, their failure to give up control is likely going to cause lack of confidence in investing in them in the long term.  We will have to see how these imitators play out, but I would venture to bet that they are going to screw up in adequately answering the questions that you outlined.  Accordingly, bitcoin or anything that is decentralized like bitcoin is going to inspire the most confidence from future investors.

thank you for this.

I'm not attempting to convince him to die quietly. I'm attempting to convince him to do something society values enough to keep him alive. There are those that simply don't have that ability and they should be helped, but those who chose not to support themselves are choosing to die and I respect their choice, even if I don't agree with it.

ok, personally I dont like the word 'should' either. but you are proposing a system that must both destroy work (innovation) and create work (capitalism) at the same time. that is not an answer.

either we share work and hoard money, or we share money and hoard work. they work equally.

what doesnt work is when you hoard work and money - then the french revolution happens all over again and the skilled and educated lose.

Total trade volume today (Wed Mar/12 00:00-23:59 UTC) on the exchanges that I monitor was ~201 kBTC.  That is 38% more than yesterday's (146 kBTC), but still 62% less than last Wednesday (524).

Volume outside China increased 53% since yesterday (from 19 to 29 kBTC).  Bitstamp (12.7 kBTC) still leads. Bitfinex (7.29) recovered from today's low, but is still third, slightly below BTC-e (7.96).

Volume in China increased 36% (from 127 to 172 kBTC).  OKCoin is still ahead of Huobi (53% versus 45% of China's volume).

China's slice of the total day's volume fell slightly from 87% to 86%.

Bitstamp is pushing up and up, but Bitfinex doesn't want to follow. Strange.

You cannot convince a starving person to die quietly when society leaves him behind, that he doesn't deserve to live because he is 'not good enough'. shit is going to get ugly under this model. no matter the perceived level of skill a person needs, the vast majority will always be relatively stupid.

and why should we leave them behind, there is more wealth in the world than ever before!

.......unless you want to argue that we need to self propagate. that is a sad truth.

Look at it from global perspective and you'll see the opposite: gap between West and China is closing, both in productivity and wages. Nowadays the world's Gini is much better than it was in 1970s. As for employment, it's thanks to governments. There is no involuntary unemployment in free market.

Buy the rumor, sell the news.

If it were really true that replacing backhoe operators with shovels would improve employment, then why wouldn't we go further and replace shovels with spoons? The fact is that employers face competition for employees in a free market just as much as job seekers face competition for jobs. Wages are bid down AND up, so what ultimately determines wages is productivity. Backhoe operators are so much more productive than manual ditch diggers that society can afford to pay the manufacturers and servicers of backhoes, manufacturers of the parts , the miners and harvesters of raw materials and the suppliers of fuel substantially more than the unskilled laborers they displace.

I'm sorry, but if you are too stupid or stubborn to upgrade your skills when technology makes them obsolete, it's your problem-not society's.

Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):


             !    Wed !    Thu !    Fri !    Sat !    Sun !    Mon !    Tue !    Wed !                     
  EXCHANGE   !  03/05 !  03/06 !  03/07 !  03/08 !  03/09 !  03/10 !  03/11 !  03/12 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp   |  12.72 |  10.40 |  21.45 |   9.70 |   9.12 |  13.40 |   9.17 |  12.70 | USD                 
  BitFinEx   |   8.38 |   7.06 |  17.23 |  10.97 |   8.29 |  11.60 |   3.63 |   7.29 | USD                 
  BTC-e      |  11.19 |   5.69 |  13.54 |   8.71 |   6.52 |   7.16 |   5.09 |   7.96 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  Kraken     |   0.87 |   0.71 |   1.20 |   0.55 |   0.64 |   0.57 |   0.45 |   0.56 | EUR                 
  Bitcoin.DE |   0.40 |   0.34 |   0.38 |   0.31 |   0.20 |   0.39 |   0.41 |   0.37 | EUR                 
  CaVirtEx   |   0.22 |   0.22 |   0.24 |   0.12 |   0.15 |   0.13 |   0.18 |   0.13 | CAD                 
  CampBX     |   0.04 |   0.03 |   0.07 |   0.03 |   0.02 |   0.05 |   0.06 |   0.04 | USD                 

  SUBTOTAL   |  33.82 |  24.45 |  54.11 |  30.39 |  24.94 |  33.30 |  18.99 |  29.05 |                     

  OKCoin     | 286.05 | 139.37 | 109.70 | 146.46 | 136.24 | 119.00 |  68.50 |  90.60 | CNY                 
  Huobi      | 196.00 |  92.40 |  96.37 | 119.46 | 103.51 |  95.10 |  55.00 |  77.90 | CNY                 
  BTC-China  |   8.04 |   5.58 |   4.87 |   5.08 |   4.24 |   3.34 |   3.11 |   3.16 | CNY                 
  Bter       |   0.31 |   0.32 |   0.32 |   0.28 |   0.21 |   0.27 |   0.34 |   0.49 | CNY                 

  SUBTOTAL   | 490.40 | 237.67 | 211.26 | 271.28 | 244.20 | 217.71 | 126.95 | 172.15 |                     

  TOTAL      | 524.22 | 262.12 | 265.37 | 301.67 | 269.14 | 251.01 | 145.94 | 201.20 |                     


All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day.  For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)

Not sure what this conversation has to do with Bitcoin Bid Walls, but it sure is damn interesting.

There's another explanation. "On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US$ to gold." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

"this coupled with the severe contraction of the economy in 2008 and the jobless recovery since has produced and maintained feedback loops manifesting themselves as rapid stratification in both income and wealth distribution in the US and the world: wage suppression, natural monopolization and other effects of economies of scale, globalization of economies corresponding to globalization of inequality, and large profits for the business and financial elite corresponding to large negative externalities for everyone else. each of these items could be expanded into an entire thesis, but i won't go into more detail. the point is that each of these things are independent feedback loops that support and accelerate wealth inequality."

There is no such thing as "natural monopolization". Governments create monopolies. The free market resists them as mass resists acceleration. The only business model that can't be copied is government-mandated exclusivity. Bitcoin is probably the best example of free market dominance and even it faces hundreds of competitors eating into it's market share.



Judging by the context, you aren't referring to capitalism at all, but crony capitalism or more formally corporatism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism. 

The free market is the best system we can aspire to, and even that will not be fully possible so long as monopoly governments exist. Due to the economic calculation problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem, the price system is the most efficient, pragmatic way to allocate scarce resources. There are losers in the free market, but the only alternative is that everybody becomes losers as they squabble for ever shrinking surpluses until there aren't any anymore.

when ya think about it, its kinda hard to construct a sentence like that haha

wow arepo very detailed +1

Man this volume sucks.

So slow.

i agree that government and bureaucracy is in a large part obstructing some of the natural restructuring that would otherwise occur in the free market in today's stratified society. however, it is obvious that a paradigm shift occurred around 1970 when productivity, employment rates, and wages decoupled. i don't think it is a coincidence that this lines up with a shift towards automative replacement of many jobs, in both unskilled and skilled labor.

this coupled with the severe contraction of the economy in 2008 and the jobless recovery since has produced and maintained feedback loops manifesting themselves as rapid stratification in both income and wealth distribution in the US and the world: wage suppression, natural monopolization and other effects of economies of scale, globalization of economies corresponding to globalization of inequality, and large profits for the business and financial elite corresponding to large negative externalities for everyone else. each of these items could be expanded into an entire thesis, but i won't go into more detail. the point is that each of these things are independent feedback loops that support and accelerate wealth inequality.

these issues are not directly traceable to meddling governments but may be exacerbated by them. it is particularly misguided to place the blame on governments when these problems are endemic to the apparatus as it stands now that we call Modern Capitalism. it is difficult for some to accept that the sacred cow of "capitalism" may have some natural tendencies towards non-optimal states, but the truth is that the free market is not an ideal, it is a thing that exists in practice, in many forms. some forms may be more desireable than others, and i certainly do not think the state of the apparatus as it exists now is desireable.

--arepo

I'd gladly take that over this dystopia you linked.

I would go even farther. The only way to make everybody perfectly equal is to blow up the planet and leave everybody equally dead and in exactly the same place.

Even equality of opportunity is really bad because when driven to its logical conclusion it means putting everyone on the level of the lowest common denominator.
EDIT: I see now that this is one of the subjects in your link.