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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28889. (Read 26609871 times)

donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
When actual risk is swamped by volaility, those who discount risk/reward on the basis of volatility will grossly overestimate risk, and those who estimate it more accurately have a huge advantage.  They will buy more and at higher prices, and therefore hold more when appreciation occurs.  They will hold through the volatility.  I think that many "weak hands" in bitcoin are the result of mistaking risk and vol.  This may be the only advantage which technical people have over wall street types:  They understand the fundamental risks better, and are less likely to mistake them with volatility.

So much wisdom from this poster +1.

I, for one, do not regard volatility as a risk at all, rather an opportunity to generate extra gains (if you are into trading).

As my planned expenses for the year 2014 are only about 10% of my assets (even in absence of any income), it does not matter what the BTC fiat price does in the short term, 1-2 years. The main risk I am concerned about with it is total loss, and that can be hedged against with reasonable but not overcautious diversification. Keeping 50%+ in bitcoins is reasonable because its historical return has been about 1000% per year.

The people with this mindset have done the best with Bitcoin historically. Going all-in is risky, if you have sudden expenses or are moody. Having less than 50% bitcoins, you miss out on gains that I posit are actually risk-free.


legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
Apologies if this has already been posted or opened up for discussion - but what do you all think of the NY regulators proposal to accept applications for regulated bitcoin exchanges in the US?

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/po_vc_03112014.pdf


It is always better to have things clearly written down. Better than just say something and let others (banks) do the regulation with no possibility for defense in court.

Personally I prefer minimum regulation. Any regulation will add up to something chaotic and eventually be captured by a group of actors, and it will really not protect against fraud, just make customers complacent.

In the long run, it doesn't matter. The rules will be changed when the real fight begins.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
My question is, why the Chinese government banned Cryptocurrency but allows everything going?

For the same reason most of the laws in the U.S. exist:  To keep everyone in a constant state of fear and submission.  If you step out of line, there are probably a dozen felony charges that can be laid against you at any time.

Generally, yes, but the situation in China is quite clear for the moment. There was a month or so where officials' statements were unclear (possibly with intent, or they just hadn't decided yet), and mr Lee of BTCChina was extremely pessimistic.
hero member
Activity: 703
Merit: 502
Apologies if this has already been posted or opened up for discussion - but what do you all think of the NY regulators proposal to accept applications for regulated bitcoin exchanges in the US?

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/po_vc_03112014.pdf

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
China may have realized that it cannot stifle bitcoin.. and china has a mixed set of motives including a desire to have some kind of investment vehicle separate from the dollar... .. so China is likely torn about bitcoin and about whether they like it or hate it... maybe they are frienemies with bitcoin?

From what Iknow, Chinese residents cannot pay for goods or services using bitcoin; banks and other financial institutions cannot deal with bitcoin; bitcoins cannot be sold by e-commerce sites; and e-payment services cannot be used to pay for bitcoin.   So what is left?

I believe there are other cointries which have taken similar measures; Russia and India, perhaps? (A thread was started in this forum to build a list the legal status of bitcoin in each coutry, but it never got beyond the first draft.)  Some countries (like the US)  have not banned crypto-coins explicitly, but their existing regulations alerady prevent some of those uses. 

If crypto currencies will only be used for clandestine private commerce between peers, under risk of legal penalties who don't care about regulation, they will have failed succeeded in their goal.

FTFY

Chinese corrupted officers will push Bitcoin price up 1000 times

http://www.bit-sky.com/index.php/english/370-chinese-corrupted-officers-will-push-bitcoin-price-up-1000-times


Nice. This is a nice example of money being whatever the traders prefer to use as money.

Current money (fiat notes and token coins, credit money and debit money (deposits in combination with debit cards)) are good for most things. Deposit account money lacks the hideability feature, and all fiat money lacks the store of value feature. Golden monkey stamp money does not have wings, and house money lacks the fungibility, durability and divisibility features. Good prospects for bitcoin, which is superior on most features.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 11299
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

If you want to continue to assert that the government is the same as a robber, then why should we further engage in such discussion under the circumstances, that I am NOT going to go along with that stupid ass and simplistic framing of the situation.... that on the face of it, should be obvious to any one with brain cells and reason... although maybe the person would need to have at least the equivalent of a 6th grade education...  to be able to engage in more complex thinking... Now I should NOT be insulting 5th graders b/c I am sure that many of them should be able to understand the difference between government and robbers... even some 1st graders will understand such.


You do appear to have a first grader's understanding of the topic at hand. Government robbers are a subset of the larger class of robbers, which includes private sector robbers.
Grizzly bears and dogs are both mammals. The State and bandits are both robbers. They are different, but not in the ways that qualify them as mammals and robbers respectively.

So, why don't you answer the question then?  Are you going to leave your 1 year old with a dog or with a grizzly bear for safe keeping?

Neither, obviously. Robbers are to be avoided, whatever their other characteristics.

Thanks for your cooperation...  Tongue      Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 786
Merit: 857
Sally's flashing her 10k ask at BFX again.

Looks to me like she's only showing her stuff when the market is trending downwards and she always seems to pull out the moment someone touches her stuff.

So it appears she's accumulating. Sure makes you wonder what her position goal is, does she want ALL the bitcoins?

Who's Sally?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
In case someone here is interested:
   
  U.S. judge freezes assets of Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange boss
  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5649623
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250

What's the business model of an exchange that charges no fees? How can they get the revenue to continue operations after the seed money runs out?

Front running.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

NOTE: Huobi's CEO denied allegations of fake trade volume, but said nothing about fake Glyptodons.


He also said (Bloomberg) that volume as a comparison between exchanges is mostly irrelevant because of the zero fee policy (which he plans to continue forever). He said exchanges should be considered on functionality, ease of use, security, customer relations and so on. I agree.


What's the business model of an exchange that charges no fees? How can they get the revenue to continue operations after the seed money runs out?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005

NOTE: Huobi's CEO denied allegations of fake trade volume, but said nothing about fake Glyptodons.


He also said (Edit: Coindesk) that volume as a comparison between exchanges is mostly irrelevant because of the zero fee policy (which he plans to continue forever). He said exchanges should be considered on functionality, ease of use, security, customer relations and so on. I agree.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Total trade volume today (Tue Mar/11 00:00--23:59 UTC), on the exchanges that I monitor, was ~146 kBTC.  That is 42% less than yesterday's, and 71% less than last Tuesdays.

Trade volume outside China fell 43% compared to yesterday (from 33 to 19 kBTC).  Bitstamp (9.17 kBTC) retained its first place, but Bitfinex (3.63) fell to third place, behind BTC-e (5.09).  Bitfinex fell 69% compared to yesterday.

Trade volume in China fell 42% (from 218 to 127 kBTC).  OKCoin had more volume than Huobi (52% versus 43%), like it had since last Wednesday.

China's slice of the total volume remained practically unchanged at 87%
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
I'd love to see some swallow that 1100 btc sell order
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):


             !    Tue !    Wed !    Thu !    Fri !    Sat !    Sun !    Mon !    Tue !                     
  EXCHANGE   !  03/04 !  03/05 !  03/06 !  03/07 !  03/08 !  03/09 !  03/10 !  03/11 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp   |  28.03 |  12.72 |  10.40 |  21.45 |   9.70 |   9.12 |  13.40 |   9.17 | USD                 
  BitFinEx   |  25.03 |   8.38 |   7.06 |  17.23 |  10.97 |   8.29 |  11.60 |   3.63 | USD                 
  BTC-e      |  28.83 |  11.19 |   5.69 |  13.54 |   8.71 |   6.52 |   7.16 |   5.09 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  Kraken     |   1.81 |   0.87 |   0.71 |   1.20 |   0.55 |   0.64 |   0.57 |   0.45 | EUR                 
  Bitcoin.DE |   1.02 |   0.40 |   0.34 |   0.38 |   0.31 |   0.20 |   0.39 |   0.41 | EUR                 
  CaVirtEx   |   0.33 |   0.22 |   0.22 |   0.24 |   0.12 |   0.15 |   0.13 |   0.18 | CAD                 
  CampBX     |   0.14 |   0.04 |   0.03 |   0.07 |   0.03 |   0.02 |   0.05 |   0.06 | USD                 

  SUBTOTAL   |  85.19 |  33.82 |  24.45 |  54.11 |  30.39 |  24.94 |  33.30 |  18.99 |                     

  OKCoin     | 137.35 | 286.05 | 139.37 | 109.70 | 146.46 | 136.24 | 119.00 |  68.50 | CNY                 
  Huobi      | 268.47 | 196.00 |  92.40 |  96.37 | 119.46 | 103.51 |  95.10 |  55.00 | CNY                 
  BTC-China  |  15.36 |   8.04 |   5.58 |   4.87 |   5.08 |   4.24 |   3.34 |   3.11 | CNY                 
  Bter       |   0.64 |   0.31 |   0.32 |   0.32 |   0.28 |   0.21 |   0.27 |   0.34 | CNY                 

  SUBTOTAL   | 421.82 | 490.40 | 237.67 | 211.26 | 271.28 | 244.20 | 217.71 | 126.95 |                     

  TOTAL      | 507.01 | 524.22 | 262.12 | 265.37 | 301.67 | 269.14 | 251.01 | 145.94 |                     


All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day.  For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
There are about 4000 users currently logged onto BTCe -- I've seen it as low as a couple of thousand around this time last year and as high as 12K last November.  You could make a rough guess (of an exchanges no. of users) based on these figures and taking into account an exchange's volume in relation to either the current or median figure.  Add them up (I know you love these tasks Jorge Wink ) and you may have a very rough number.  I'd imagine its more than 10K though.

Thanks!

Would those logged-in users have any other reason to log in, other than trading?

Assuming that  are all traders,  BTC-e's volume today was 5.09 kBTC, and the total outside China was 19 kBTC.  If proportion holds, today there were about 16,000 traders loged in outside China.

That ignores possible overlap (users who trade in two or more platforms), which should not be terribly significant.

Today's volume was very low (1/4 of last Tuesday, for eample).  Is the volume low because there are fewer traders logged in, or because the same traders generate less volume?




hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
Chinese Slumber Method prediction for Wednesday Mar/12

Prediction valid for: Wednesday 2014-03-12, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after)
Huobi's predicted price: 3788 CNY.
Bitstamp's predicted price: 631 USD.

Huobi

The red and green strokes are actual Huobi hourly prices.  The current prediction is the rightmost magenta square.  The blue squares are the last bullish and bearish predictions (see below), and the light blue-gray squares are the older ones.  The orange and grey dots are the Slumber Points, the mean Huobi prices at 19:00 UTC every day.  Each point is a Glyptodon if the hourly volume Vh for 19:00--19:59 UTC is less than 0.005 times the daily volume Vd 00:00--23:59 UTC; and is an Albertosaurus otherwise. The grey lines are trends fitted a posteriori to the Glyptodon Points. The orange line is the trend that was assumed for the above prediction. The Helix pomatia is a graphical indication of market sentiment as deduced from the contents of this thread.

By the arbitrary criterion I have been using, today was defintely a Glyptodon (Vh/Vd = 195/55000 = 0.00354 < 0.005) and therefore a valid data point.  The trend that included it and seemed most plausible was a shifted exponential p(d) = A+B*Q**(d-4), where d is the day of the month, fitted to the five Glyptodons Mar/04--06,09,11.  It seemed reasonable to exclude the Glyptodon of Mar/08, since its Vh/Vd (4.27) was near the threshold and it seemed to lie outside any trend.  The ratio Q was set to 0.700, giving A = 3772.33, B = 268.94).

Bitstamp

The red and green strokes are actual Bitstamp hourly prices.  The dots, dinosaurs, mammals, lines, and magenta squares are Huobi's Slumber Points, dinosaurs, mammals, trends, and new predictions, scaled by the currency conversion factor R (6.40 for Feb/07--09, 6.00 since Mar/04, and 6.12 for all other dates).

Checking the previous prediction

Prediction was posted on: Tuesday 2014-03-11, 01:31 UTC
Prediction was valid for: Tuesday 2014-03-11, 19:00--19:59 UTC

Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 3802 CNY
Huobi's predicted price for bulls: 4073 CNY
Error: 271 CNY (~45 USD)
Huobi's predicted price for bears: 3597 CNY
Errors: 205 CNY (~34 USD)

Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 623 USD
Bitstamp's predicted price for bulls: 679 USD
Error: 56 USD
Bitstamp's predicted price for bears: 600 USD
Error: 23 USD

NOTE: Huobi's CEO denied allegations of fake trade volume, but said nothing about fake Glyptodons.

legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

This is the first time I've wanted to buy a Tesla. New Jersey seems to be dead set on remaining a joke.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
well, I don't know about you guys and girls but it seems to be good times Cheesy

I believe we all are young lucky, soon to be wealthy, gentlemen Cool
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
well, I don't know about you guys and girls but it seems to be good times Cheesy
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