Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 28924. (Read 26609655 times)

It shows that they should've had Currency: BTC     Balance:     951,116.21905382

So 950k btc.

From http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zz21j/mtgox_2014_hack_database_revealed_live_from_mark/, presumably derived from the database leak:


Note that, if this is legit, it does not show what MtGOX had, but what it owed to its customers at the time the database snapshot was taken. (Is this right?)

EDIT: markup

 

Jay

If someone tells you they are going to buy drugs with bitcoin then you have a legal duty not to sell bitcoin to them.   Just like you have a legal duty not to sell someone a pillow if they tell you they are going to use it to asphyxiate their mother in law. And no this is not a govt conspiracy against pillow dealers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

Thatt you may consider this to be an unreasonable intrusion of the government into your affairs is not particularly relevant.

How can you possibly infer that opposition to monopoly governance equates to opposition to community? That's the most baffling non sequitur I can imagine. If you think rule of law is essential (and it is) then you cannot let the law be subverted by allowing one entity only to interpret and enforce that law, because then you effectively have rule of man and not rule of law. Of course politicians are going to be bribed and the wealthy are going to bend the State to their will. They have the incentive to do so. No reform is possible with the existing incentive structure in place. I'm not advocating an armed insurrection. That would be futile. I am advocating participation in the system to the least amount possible until in crumbles under its own weight. 

We should not get ahead of the tribunals, but have you read the document?
http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January14/SchremFaiellaChargesPR/Faiella,%20Robert%20M.%20and%20Charlie%20Shrem%20Complaint.pdf
(Check the details of Count Four, specifically.)

The issue is not whether Shrem is innocent or not, but what is sensible policy for a Foundation or other people who wish for bitcoin to succeed.  Like in the case of MtGOX, it seems that people cannot separate personal friendships from the promotion of bitcoin; almost if "bitcoin" was a specific group of people, rather than a computing/economics project.

Explanation

Total trade volume for today (Sun Mar/09 00:00-23:59 UTC) on the exchanges that I monitor was ~269 kBTC.  That is 11% less than yesterday's, but almost 3 times the volume of last Sunday Mar/02.

Volume outside China fell 18% (from 30 to 25 kBTC).  Bitstamp (with 9.12 kBTC) was again above Bitfinex (8.29), and BTC-e (6.52) was still third.

Volume in China fell  across all exchanges, by 10% in total (from 271 to 244 kBTC).  OKCoin remains well ahead of Huobi (today 56% to 42% of the Chinese volume).

China's slice of the total volume increased slightly, from 90% to  91%.

I am sad that you live in a state of mind that you feel that you are being forced.  Yes, I agree with the government in A LOT of ways; however, mentally, I recognize the fact that I live in a community of people.  The world is NOT just about me, and in this community of people, a variety of compromises have been made.  Some of the compromises are pure bullshit... Well, maybe a lot of them are pure bullshit that are in place to oppress people.  I recognize the law as a weapon of the rich to oppress the poor - however, it seems that my mentality is different from yours b/c I am NOT going to expend all of my energies bitching and moaning about how unfair it is and suggesting that the only solution is to throw out the baby and the bathwater by some kind of ousting of government.  That is too outrageous b/c there are a lot of people in the community, besides me.   

Personally, I believe that if there were ways to remove money influence in politics, and we were able to elect people to serve the interests of the people as a whole, rather than the rich, then we would move a long way towards a better society. 

If you and I sat down for a beer, I am sure that there would be a lot that we would agree upon, but I am NOT going to agree that the starting place is to shut down government (tomorrow or next week).  Change needs to be more incremental and focused, if such change is going to be meaningful and a product of society rather than a product of the will of only a few.

Speaking of technicalities, we have a nice little cup and handle formation cooking on the 30 minute chart.

Yes, but I cheated, I used MSPaint.   

Charges does NOT a case make.  The government has to prove the charges, and if these are criminal the burden is beyond a reasonable doubt.  There are a lot of people who have been suppressed and oppressed by receiving criminal charges.  And, apparently, the evidence regarding Shrem came from his voluntary providing information b/c he was assisting the government to establish regulation...

I get the sense that he is a 24 year old that did NOT realize that he was getting in over his head, and the government was setting him up b/c of his role in bitcoin.  From what little I know about Shrem, I doubt that he had criminal intentions.

Let's say for example, that you are engaged in a bank money exchange and your customers are drug dealers.  You may or may NOT be involved in their drug dealing business... but it seems that the government is trying to target someone who did NOT have illegal intentions....

Have you heard about some of the recent FBI stings regarding local bitcoins in which FBI agents pose as customers for bitcoins, and they tell sellers on localbitcoins that they are going to use the bitcoins to buy drugs (or some other illegal activity).  Why the hell should I give a flying fuck for what purpose the buyer wants the bitcoins, I am just selling bitcoins.  Anyhow, it is a form of set up to bust people who are selling bitcoins.... people who may have no intent to do anything illegal; however, the fact that the buyer tells them what he is going to do, then the seller becomes an accomplice.  those are bullshit setups.


The govt may pick shrem b/c he seems to be an easy target in terms of resources at his disposal and ability to defend himself and he also seems to be a fairly honest kid that just speaks his mind... without realizing that he is being set up in some technicalities.

sooooooo

 you feel better now don't you.

 

Thanks

Well, I read that FBI document with charges against him, and they seem rather serious.

If the charges were drug buy/sell/use one could say that they had nothing to do with his role in the bitcoin movement.  But the charges are about his failure to do his duty as the AML person in his exchange.  Hard to dissociate that from bitcoin. 

It is expected that his friends would defend and support him, but having him as a spokesman for bitcoin, taking part in bitcoin roundtables, etc. looks very bad from out here.

Besides, why would the USG want to harass him? For his role in bitcoin?  But why him and not other prominent bitcoiners?

I don't agree to disagree when the issue at hand is whether or not I am a slave. This isn't hyperbole. I can't leave the country without permission and even if I am allowed to leave, I still must file U.S. tax returns for ten years. I can't vote to change the system. There is no option on the ballot to leave the elected posts empty for the next term. Democracy is not consent of the governed anyway; it is consent of the majority or more accurately the plurality.

Slavery won't go away because it is immoral. It will go away because it is economically obsolete. There's just not much profit in it anymore and it is becoming less profitable by the day.

I doubt that we are, in any time soon, going to achieve a world in which government is completely unnecessary.  That seems to be pie in the sky thinking.   It is possible that bitcoin can move us in a direction in which the role of government (and its money) is completely changed; however, in the short term, we are NOT going to be "saved" from government.


Surely, I have NO problem with guys having visions about ways in which we can improve society; however, some kind of cold turkey abolition of government does NOT seem to be ANY kind of meaningful or realistic solution.  There are too many vested interests and too many people would be hurt with such radical measures.




It appears that you have a passion to argue about this kind of a topic, and possibly accomplishing such by merely continuing to reassert your same argument over and over that government taxation is theft.  That is NOT a meaningful argument.

When I mention complexities, I am NOT wanting to get into this topic b/c there are a lot of governments - national, state and local, and government serves a wide array of functions - military, policing, regulatory, social benefits, economic.  Yes, theft may occur within government; however, when the topic of theft came up, we were referring to the actions of GOX.  Gox is NOT a government as far as I know.  Gox was NOT engaged in taxation... So to compare the thievery activities of GOX to taxation is taking us far afield from the original point(s) being made.

yes i can even wire these functions up to big red buttons you can physically push and pull, for maximum lolz

the panic button would split all the bitcoins we collected to a high number of totally anonymous wallets no one can trace.

Have adam code DDOS machines. You'll need those at some point, trust me.

To suggest that a complex theft is not a theft merely because of the complexities involved is laughable. It's like arguing that a Boeing 747 isn't an airplane.