Author

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29485. (Read 26607648 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
Why is everyone freaking out? They will fix the bug and continue business as usual... I don't see any reason for these conspiracy theories. MagicalTux can not steal the money as he is publicly known and has no place to hide... Except of that he had enough opportunities to run with the money already and hasn't done it.

You are watching an amazing social experiment in the power of group dynamics. Worry, fear and doubt can spread like a virus.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
Why is everyone freaking out? They will fix the bug and continue business as usual... I don't see any reason for these conspiracy theories. MagicalTux can not steal the money as he is publicly known and has no place to hide... Except of that he had enough opportunities to run with the money already and hasn't done it.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
You feel for mark ? Are you kidding me ?

He made this bed. The image of him and his frappachino - just literally icing on the cake showing complacency and the video posted on wsj where he comes to the office in a tshirt ignoring his customer

Complacent
Sloppy/ slob
Unrepentant

He's doing just fine when people have lost thousands, hundreds of thousands because his company is shady and totally silent on pr.

If I deserve losing thousands and my btc for being on gox he deserves what's coming to him.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
But I thought you sent your Mtgox BTC to Josh and Josh also holds all the real BTC. The Mtgox BTC and real BTC stays with him until you withdraw like an exchange.
I think you're right, after reading his FAQ.  I do not understand Gox (never having used it) so it is not surprising that I do not understand how he can hold the goxcoin.  Do they have a c2c xfer system?
full member
Activity: 227
Merit: 100
While I have to admit I find the waiting a bind, I can't see how they can spin this out much longer -- if they present another delaying announcement it is just going to cripple the market with uncertainty.  

The tension inside Gox itself must be pretty dreadful at present and I wonder if they themselves could continue without some clear resolution today.  And while I know he's not popular here -- I do feel for Mark, he must be close to throwing himself out the window, with the business pressure alone, nevermind all the hate he gets online.



If you feel sorry for MK - then why not start collecting btc for a frappachino charity fund for him.
legendary
Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question.

Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit.

I'm not 100% sure how Bitcoin Builder works. But I thought you sent your Mtgox BTC to Josh and Josh also holds all the real BTC. The Mtgox BTC and real BTC stays with him until you withdraw like an exchange.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit.

That's not what "market maker" means, usually, BTW.  Just sayin'.
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1000
If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question.

Josh is a market maker, he doesn't own any Gox-btc apart from the 2% fee on buy orders. Buyers of Gox-btc do. They reap the reward or take the hit.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
They don't really have coins in Gox, do they? It's the only scenario that makes sense.  Which is more likely, from a logistical standpoint; Gox enables BTC withdrawals, or Gox enables USD withdrawals? I think most people would answer BTC withdrawals (in the absence of anything shady going on). So.... If you had one or the other stuck in there, which asset would you roll the dice on? The huge sells down to $13X, or whatever it is now, would indicate that the majority feel it's more likely that they will get USD out of Gox in the future. What? How could anyone believe that? (in the absence of some other knowledge).

The prices being 25% of what they are on other exchanges would suggest that it's a 4:1 majority who feel this way. That's just nuts. If they are insolvent, you aren't getting either (so why trade for the depreciated asset?), and if it's really just a technical glitch, that every other BTC exchange in the world has already fixed, then the expectation would be that Gox should eventually stumble upon the fix as well. Both of these scenarios would lead me to hold BTC, not Goxbux, were I forced to make that choice. Gox has been working to find a bank to process withdrawals for months with no success, all the while they are becoming a less desirable business partner in the eyes of the world. The idea that USD is going to be the winning asset to hold there is the worst possible assumption.

So what am I suggesting? There are no BTC there. They are just moving numbers around inside a ledger for commission, in a desperate bid for solvency. Selling their fake BTC to anyone willing to pay anything, while halting withdrawals on the only known technical glitch which could affect them somehow. Curious they were the first to encounter and announce this huge problem with bitcoin, and the last to sort it out. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

So I'm becoming reasonably certain that insolvency is the real issue, but it's hard to know how deep in it they are. If it's just a few thousand BTC, perhaps this stunt will close the gap. They buy back the BTC they owe on other exchanges or OTC with all the commission they took selling fake coins, and limit withdrawals exactly right to slowly climb back into the black, and nobody ever knows how close they came to collapse. But if it's an impossibly wide gap, they waited too long, and no stunt is going to close it, what are they doing right now? Maybe they are trying to work out a deal with a large BTC holder to cover their position until they can right the ship in exchange for part of the commissions. I can't think of any other good way out of it.


The problem is that MtGox PR department has been terrible up to this point. Otherwise I'm guessing the panic wouldn't be as crazy. And one of the theories is it's easier to sue based on a $$$ value rather than amount of BTC value.
hero member
Activity: 894
Merit: 501
I'm still amazed to see how Gox could feasibly go to zero, whilst the others might only reach $500
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
After careful analysis and spreadsheet algorithms, i've decided to sodl the btc i bought at 920$ goxbux for 150$ - it will pay off long term.

hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...

Mtgox BTC would be $0, so Josh and all the people who fulfilled buy orders would be screwed. But would Josh fulfill his transactions to those who had successful Sell Orders on his site? That's the real question.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
I had 5300 euros, bought in for about 6.25 btc and now its worth a tiny, tiny fraction of that.

Boom! Bam! Goxed! again! when will I learn! well, this time, but then again everyone did, sot hat money is probably gone. That was all my btc profits, and now i'm down by 600$ actually.

Hoping funds in bitstamp would help me make some of that back but we aint moving from 600.

If i get my 6 btc back... and never see gox again... this will be my ideal situation, but then aggain i think everyone is on this same page.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1001
They don't really have coins in Gox, do they? It's the only scenario that makes sense.  Which is more likely, from a logistical standpoint; Gox enables BTC withdrawals, or Gox enables USD withdrawals? I think most people would answer BTC withdrawals (in the absence of anything shady going on). So.... If you had one or the other stuck in there, which asset would you roll the dice on? The huge sells down to $13X, or whatever it is now, would indicate that the majority feel it's more likely that they will get USD out of Gox in the future. What? How could anyone believe that? (in the absence of some other knowledge).

The prices being 25% of what they are on other exchanges would suggest that it's a 4:1 majority who feel this way. That's just nuts. If they are insolvent, you aren't getting either (so why trade for the depreciated asset?), and if it's really just a technical glitch, that every other BTC exchange in the world has already fixed, then the expectation would be that Gox should eventually stumble upon the fix as well. Both of these scenarios would lead me to hold BTC, not Goxbux, were I forced to make that choice. Gox has been working to find a bank to process withdrawals for months with no success, all the while they are becoming a less desirable business partner in the eyes of the world. The idea that USD is going to be the winning asset to hold there is the worst possible assumption.

So what am I suggesting? There are no BTC there. They are just moving numbers around inside a ledger for commission, in a desperate bid for solvency. Selling their fake BTC to anyone willing to pay anything, while halting withdrawals on the only known technical glitch which could affect them somehow. Curious they were the first to encounter and announce this huge problem with bitcoin, and the last to sort it out. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

So I'm becoming reasonably certain that insolvency is the real issue, but it's hard to know how deep in it they are. If it's just a few thousand BTC, perhaps this stunt will close the gap. They buy back the BTC they owe on other exchanges or OTC with all the commission they took selling fake coins, and limit withdrawals exactly right to slowly climb back into the black, and nobody ever knows how close they came to collapse. But if it's an impossibly wide gap, they waited too long, and no stunt is going to close it, what are they doing right now? Maybe they are trying to work out a deal with a large BTC holder to cover their position until they can right the ship in exchange for part of the commissions. I can't think of any other good way out of it.



hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
wish I had like 10k on gox  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1070
Well, those GoxCoins I bought seem to be proving to be an expensive lesson.

Ah well, capitulation time. Down with the ship.

Always darkest before dawn. I think it's about 3am.  Wink
hero member
Activity: 583
Merit: 500
5:25 here in Japan... and still we wait...

ANy local knowledge you can share on the new Gox premises?

Is it a move up or down from their current location?

Unfortunately no, I'm in Kyoto
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
If you trade your Mtgox BTC to Bitcoinbuilder and Mtgox declares bankruptcy, what happens? Briefly looked over the website and found nothing.
I would assume they would return them to the actual owners. Not that it would matter much...
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