Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29628.

jatajuta

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Quote from: N12 on February 16, 2014, 12:58:41 PM

I'm not defending MtGox. They suck.

I'm attacking those of you who make people believe MtGox could have likely lost a 6 digit BTC sum over the malleability issue (because that's what it would take to make them insolvent).

People are not thinking clearly anymore, looking at the technical issue, their contingencies and progress so far, their income and their accumulated BTC reserves over the years. I could write it up, but I'm not sure anyone is interested at all. I never expected that MtGox would reenable transfers at remotely the same speed as Bitstamp, because MtGox's problem is worse since they have an accounting mess to clean up, and that is in addition to their general slowness.

But never mind, I think you guys are all more intelligent than gmaxwell, jgarzik and phantomcircuit with regards to evaluating MtGox's malleability issue. Better listen to r/bitcoin, buy at +30% premium and sell at -70%. Cheesy

Completely agree with you, everyone is so certain it will close and it is finished, but they don't realize that is not what the core developers think about gox.

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/434520107348275200

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3656#issuecomment-35055553

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/434382853657227264

seleme

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Quote from: fonzie on February 16, 2014, 01:06:11 PM

Quote from: fluidjax on February 16, 2014, 12:59:13 PM

There is a total of 7000 BTC that will need to be bought at some point when Bitfinex users close their short positions.
The highest amount in the last 6 months.

http://charts-bfxdata.rhcloud.com/bitfinexLiquidityBTC.php

Well there are many thousands of hodler Bitcoins waitin wo be sold in panic. :-D

Lol, you obviously don't know what is happening when someone is closing short position.

Let me help you, he is not selling, he is buying then Wink

fonzie

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Can we agree that regardless of the actual content(everything fixed, robbed, delayed, free booze for everybody) of the next Gox announcment that Bitcoin will continue to tank?
Because all news are bad news! Cheesy

oda.krell

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Quote from: N12 on February 16, 2014, 12:58:41 PM

I'm not defending MtGox. They suck.

I'm attacking those of you who make people believe MtGox could have likely lost a 6 digit BTC sum over the malleability issue (because that's what it would take to make them insolvent).

People are not thinking clearly anymore, looking at the technical issue, their contingencies and progress so far, their income and their accumulated BTC reserves over the years. I could write it up, but I'm not sure anyone is interested at all. I never expected that MtGox would reenable transfers at remotely the same speed as Bitstamp, because MtGox's problem is worse since they have an accounting mess to clean up, and that is in addition to their general slowness.

But never mind, I think you guys are all more intelligent than gmaxwell, jgarzik and phantomcircuit with regards to evaluating MtGox's malleability issue. Better listen to r/bitcoin, buy at +30% premium and sell at -70%. Cheesy

Agreed.

The jury is still out (IMO) to which extent their problems are due to incompetence though, or actual fraud.

Or maybe that's a dinstiction that is hard to make in our little wild west BTC economy... Tongue

BTC5OOO

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Trust:+4:20--Warning* ASICs with extreme hashrate!

Quote from: seleme on February 16, 2014, 01:00:49 PM

I am not very angry on Gox to be honest. I have 11 BTC blocked there and I believe I'll get them at some time. Out of that I don't care about their price single iota as long as other exchanges are not following it.

you are joking right?...anyone holding ~$11,000+ of my money in limbo i'd be a little haired! =\ * who wants to send me ONE BTC to hold onto for awhile..LOL!!!!

fonzie

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Quote from: fluidjax on February 16, 2014, 12:59:13 PM

There is a total of 7000 BTC that will need to be bought at some point when Bitfinex users close their short positions.
The highest amount in the last 6 months.

http://charts-bfxdata.rhcloud.com/bitfinexLiquidityBTC.php

Well there are many thousands of hodler Bitcoins waitin wo be sold in panic. :-D

seleme

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 01:05:07 PM

Quote from: seleme on February 16, 2014, 01:00:49 PM

I am not very angry on Gox to be honest. I have 11 BTC blocked there and I believe I'll get them at some time. Out of that I don't care about their price single iota as long as other exchanges are not following it.

That's the problem. For most people with half a clue the Gox chart today shows the state of Gox the company. But the other charts are meant to be showing the price of Bitcoin. And they are being dragged down.

They are but not at alarming rate at all. There's maybe 20-30$ of Goxing in current Stamp price.

magicmexican

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Quote from: seleme on February 16, 2014, 01:00:49 PM

I am not very angry on Gox to be honest. I have 11 BTC blocked there and I believe I'll get them at some time. Out of that I don't care about their price single iota as long as other exchanges are not following it.

I think the gox's price is still having an effect

Tzupy

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Quote from: N12 on February 16, 2014, 12:58:41 PM

...
I'm attacking those of you who make people believe MtGox could have likely lost a 6 digit BTC sum over the malleability issue (because that's what it would take to make them insolvent).
...

Of course they couldn't have lost so many coins, but their PR sucks. Instead of keeping mum, they should have come forward and admit that
a certain amount of coins was scammed from them, probably a 4 digit BTC sum. Bad management such as this can wipe out what reputation was left.

T.Stuart

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One Token to Move Anything Anywhere

Quote from: seleme on February 16, 2014, 01:00:49 PM

I am not very angry on Gox to be honest. I have 11 BTC blocked there and I believe I'll get them at some time. Out of that I don't care about their price single iota as long as other exchanges are not following it.

That's the problem. For most people with half a clue the Gox chart today shows the state of Gox the company. But the other charts are meant to be showing the price of Bitcoin. And they are being dragged down.

seleme

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I am not very angry on Gox to be honest. I have 11 BTC blocked there and I believe I'll get them at some time. Out of that I don't care about their price single iota as long as other exchanges are not following it.

jatajuta

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Activity: 365

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Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 16, 2014, 12:54:05 PM

Quote from: humanitee on February 16, 2014, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:37:35 PM

Yeah but letting this happen on his exchange is killing the last shreds of respect people might have for Gox. He should freeze everything right now and then make a clear, honest statement whenever he is ready.

Stop making sense.

People complain when he freezes trading. People complain when he doesn't.
People complain when he stops deposits/withdrawals. People complain when he doesn't.

+1

In April 2013 he froze the trading after the lag and it was just like today, the fact is that the market is behaving like Gox is insolvent and that will not be able to reopen BTC withdraw.

It is a great opportunity to bet against these people if the opposite scenario turns out to be true tomorrow.

I don't know if you guys remember, but the sentiment here is very similar to what was it on October 2011 and April 2013, despair and irrationality all over the place.

I like to bet against it in times like these...

fluidjax

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There is a total of 7000 BTC that will need to be bought at some point when Bitfinex users close their short positions.
The highest amount in the last 6 months.

http://charts-bfxdata.rhcloud.com/bitfinexLiquidityBTC.php

N12

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I'm not defending MtGox. They suck.

I'm attacking those of you who make people believe MtGox could have likely lost a 6 digit BTC sum over the malleability issue (because that's what it would take to make them insolvent).

People are not thinking clearly anymore, looking at the technical issue, their contingencies and progress so far, their income and their accumulated BTC reserves over the years. I could write it up, but I'm not sure anyone is interested at all. I never expected that MtGox would reenable transfers at remotely the same speed as Bitstamp, because MtGox's problem is worse since they have an accounting mess to clean up, and that is in addition to their general slowness.

But never mind, I think you guys are all more intelligent than gmaxwell, jgarzik and phantomcircuit with regards to evaluating MtGox's malleability issue. Better listen to r/bitcoin, buy at +30% premium and sell at -70%. Cheesy

flynn

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Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 16, 2014, 12:54:05 PM

Quote from: humanitee on February 16, 2014, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:37:35 PM

Yeah but letting this happen on his exchange is killing the last shreds of respect people might have for Gox. He should freeze everything right now and then make a clear, honest statement whenever he is ready.

Stop making sense.

People complain when he freezes trading. People complain when he doesn't.
People complain when he stops deposits/withdrawals. People complain when he doesn't.

He is the usual suspect.

600watt

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:18:59 PM

Quote from: 600watt on February 16, 2014, 12:14:29 PM

Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 16, 2014, 12:02:34 PM

Quote from: magicmexican on February 16, 2014, 11:45:21 AM

Is Mark Karpeles the officially the most hated person in the bitcoin community now?

You seem to have a short memory coupled with the fact Mark has yet to have done anything to warrant hate. He pointed out a flaw that nearly every exchange had to fix in their software. Perhaps he put the blame where it was not warranted.... perhaps.

I see that things at Gox look odd but just imagine this:
- Mark doesn't have special trading accounts or no-fee bots, etc.
- Mark believes that malleability is a flaw in the protocol and stated his opinion
- the crazy market at Gox is simply that, not internally manipulated free market
- banks have been very strict with him after the US froze his Dwolla account causing all the reported fiat transfers. Stopping USD withdrawals is necessitated by the US not Mark.

People are losing money and looking for someone to blame. Instead they should be thanking Mark for offering them the ability to trade BTC for the last @4 years.

i agree, the hate here is just idiotic. i was tempted myself, it is so easy to follow the crowd and hate. there are even remarks about his safety.

on the other hand: some communication from mtgox would help

Please don't confuse suggesting that he might do well to get a bodyguard with hate (if you are referring to my comment). Considering that people are beginning to fly to Tokyo from the other side of the world to confront him makes this seem like a good idea to me. The first visitors were kind of geeky; the next might be more unpleasant.

I do think it would help if he was more open about Gox's cash / Bitcoin reserves.

i was referring to posts where people actually threatened him, explained he deserved a bad fate, etc... yeah i guess pitchfork crowd is a good word. i did not want to imply your comment belongs in that category.

when gox was hacked in the middle of the crash from 32 to 2 dollars in 2011 i thought the entire exchange was a scam. i had 100 btc there. bought almost on top of the bubble Roll Eyes

my account got hacked, i couldn´t access it anymore. i threw anything away, passwords - e v e r y t h i n g & told no one about my experience fearing everybody would laugh. i felt really embarrassed. 20 months later some friend told me he will quit his job and be a bitcoin miner. bit..coin... ?! this japanese scam ? he said it was the leading bitcoin exchange, not a scam. i wondered what had happened to my 100 btc, so i contacted customer support. they answered within 10 minutes and within half an hour i had full access to the 100 coins sitting there untouched during all of this.
i can say i was impressed.

humanitee

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Quote from: KeyserSoze on February 16, 2014, 12:54:05 PM

Quote from: humanitee on February 16, 2014, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:37:35 PM

Yeah but letting this happen on his exchange is killing the last shreds of respect people might have for Gox. He should freeze everything right now and then make a clear, honest statement whenever he is ready.

Stop making sense.

People complain when he freezes trading. People complain when he doesn't.
People complain when he stops deposits/withdrawals. People complain when he doesn't.

When you cease being an exchange you should cease trading.

fonzie

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600$ will be history. SOON Shocked

KeyserSoze

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Quote from: humanitee on February 16, 2014, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:37:35 PM

Yeah but letting this happen on his exchange is killing the last shreds of respect people might have for Gox. He should freeze everything right now and then make a clear, honest statement whenever he is ready.

Stop making sense.

People complain when he freezes trading. People complain when he doesn't.
People complain when he stops deposits/withdrawals. People complain when he doesn't.

oda.krell

legendary

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 16, 2014, 12:48:22 PM

Quote from: CryptStorm on February 16, 2014, 12:38:32 PM

Just want to +1 the decency approach re: MK.

A couple of days ago I was about to sell my goxcoins on the cheap but while chat skyping with the anticipated purchaser, he let mention that he was on speaking terms with MK and the GoxTeam and that he felt that their legal team was suggesting they keep things rather 'mum's the word', which, like many of you must feel, runs counter to what we expect from a 'well run' company today, more transparency.

Now, whether the Gox lawyers are encouraging mostly silence may or may not be true, but, it certainly adds weight to KeyserSoze's reasonable approach regarding what may well be a series of human shortcomings and incidents instead of mal-anything (-feasance, -isiciousness, -ign, -evolence...).

Well that advice has backfired badly. Bullshit to that. Bitstamp was clearer and faster on the malleability thing. Did the lawyers also suggest MK blame Bitcoin?

If they were not in trouble then why would they need to stay silent? And then the silence just amplifies everybody's worst fears. Sorry but "human shortcomings" is not an adequate excuse for what's going on communication-wise. My 7-year-old son knows how to say "sorry".

Full agreement.

How can people still unironically defend gox in this case?

How come they take so much longer to fix the withdrawal problem despite the fact that their volume is actually lower than that of stamp by now.

It really doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure if it's malintent or incompetence, but in either case, they're deservedly going down as a business.

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