Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29659.

pjviitas

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Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 15, 2014, 05:23:50 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on February 15, 2014, 05:11:14 AM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 15, 2014, 04:56:19 AM

What would it take for you to admit you're wrong about Bitcoin, Jorge? What set of conditions? What would have to happen?

For starters, bitcoiners would have to find a way to get rid of all altcoins, present and future. Including AppleCoin, WellsFargoCoin, WalmartCoin, ...

Perhaps they can find corrupt congressmen that will accept bribes in bitcoin and pass laws criminalizing the use of other coins? Wink

LOL. So we would have to prevent something that doesn't exist yet? How do you know we haven't already done the through the magic of "market incentives"? If those corpcoins were truly decentralized, distributed and peer-to-peer, they would convey no advantage. To the extent they would convey advantage, they would be to that extent less popular. Which may be why you don't see any.

So I would have to wait an infinite amount of time for you to admit you were wrong?

As for present alt-coins, why do they make you doubt Bitcoin? Success always has imitators.

Altcoins are the safety net for crypto-currencies.

When some idiot tries to corner the market on Bitcoin simply trade into an altcoin.

Crypto-currencies are not all about Bitcoin.

kurious

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Quote from: Richy_T on February 15, 2014, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: Mythul on February 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

Someone put an email they received from Gox up here that said the coins had not been stolen or spent (if I remember correctly). How likely you think that's the truth depends on your point of view I guess.

I think you may mean this Richy::

Quote from: kurious on February 06, 2014, 05:31:51 PM

Quote from: surfer43 on February 06, 2014, 05:26:05 PM

Quote from: kurious on February 06, 2014, 05:24:24 PM

Quote from: EuroTrash on February 06, 2014, 04:36:32 PM

Can Gox please die forever? It has become an embarrassment to our community. We can't be taken seriously enough with Gox being still around.

I hope your wish doesn't get fulfilled before mine - which is they send me my lost coins:

From Gox:

"XXXXXXX Support, Feb 07 01:02:

Dear Valued Customer,

Thanks for your reply.

We can see that your withdrawal is yet to be processed. The transactions are being re-issued automatically. All BTC are safe ,the transaction will be processed and they are not lost or stolen. We are working to resolve the issue, but at this point we are unable to give a definite date of resolution. Please be advised that BTC on MtGox are not fractional.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused and Thank you for your patience. We will keep you posted when the withdrawals are processed and the transaction reaches blockchain.

Best regards,

MtGox Team
https://www.mtgox.com"

Note the slight tone of panic - I did not say my coins were stolen or lost - or accuse them of fractional banking!

The exchange doth protest too much, methinks...?

They are just worried people might think that.

When they say:

"We are working to resolve the issue, but at this point we are unable to give a definite date of resolution"

..people ought to be worried!

Richy_T

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Quote from: pjviitas on February 15, 2014, 12:02:52 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 15, 2014, 03:18:22 AM

ok, here's a hypothesis I haven't seen before: Mark is not intentionally manipulating anything and not profiting from Gox's troubles. Instead, he's just a bad manager and it's one or more of his underlings who are exploiting their inside knowledge and/or influence without his knowledge or consent. Whaddya think?

The guy's a programmer and obviously not a "people" person.

I think he didn't realize that the margins for a Bitcoin exchange are different than for a fiat exchange.

Unlike fiat if you run out of Bitcoin you can't just go get more at a fixed price. Buying more Bitcoin is going to drive the price up which now makes it difficult to pay out in fiat.

I think that GOX had a monetary masturbation scheme going on and it got exposed for what it was...a classic Ponzi.

Just because Bitcoing is not a Ponzi scheme doesn't mean that an exchange can't be...wherever there is fiat there can be a Ponzi scheme.

That's why the sooner GOX dies and goes away the better it will be.

This event is so much more damaging than everyone knows. All the finger pointers and tongue wagers out there will be saying "I told you so...Bitcoin and Ponzi schemes are not mutually exclusive"

The exchange is not supposed to supply the currencies. It there is not enough of one currency, the price goes up and encourages more currency along. Otherwise you're just selling/buying bitcoins. Price discovery is the whole point (well, making bucketloads of money is but that's how it's done.)

elasticband

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Nighty Night Don't Let The Trolls Bite Nom Nom Nom

Quote from: ChrisML on February 15, 2014, 12:05:28 PM

Quote from: dreamspark on February 15, 2014, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: ChrisML on February 15, 2014, 11:52:05 AM

Let it be done now PLS.

Break that $400 barrier again

as you wish

Quote

and level out with stamp. Stop this bs.

Unlikely !

I do see a possibility of hitting $450 today.

Inlikely leveling out, mjes sir, mjes.

Dutch?

ChrisML

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Quote from: dreamspark on February 15, 2014, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: ChrisML on February 15, 2014, 11:52:05 AM

Let it be done now PLS.

Break that $400 barrier again

as you wish

Quote

and level out with stamp. Stop this bs.

Unlikely !

I do see a possibility of hitting $450 today.

Inlikely leveling out, mjes sir, mjes.

dreamspark

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Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ChrisML on February 15, 2014, 11:52:05 AM

Let it be done now PLS.

Break that $400 barrier again

as you wish

Quote

and level out with stamp. Stop this bs.

Unlikely !

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: billyjoeallen on February 15, 2014, 03:18:22 AM

ok, here's a hypothesis I haven't seen before: Mark is not intentionally manipulating anything and not profiting from Gox's troubles. Instead, he's just a bad manager and it's one or more of his underlings who are exploiting their inside knowledge and/or influence without his knowledge or consent. Whaddya think?

The guy's a programmer and obviously not a "people" person.

I think he didn't realize that the margins for a Bitcoin exchange are different than for a fiat exchange.

Unlike fiat if you run out of Bitcoin you can't just go get more at a fixed price. Buying more Bitcoin is going to drive the price up which now makes it difficult to pay out in fiat.

I think that GOX had a monetary masturbation scheme going on and it got exposed for what it was...a classic Ponzi.

Just because Bitcoing is not a Ponzi scheme doesn't mean that an exchange can't be...wherever there is fiat there can be a Ponzi scheme.

That's why the sooner GOX dies and goes away the better it will be.

This event is so much more damaging than everyone knows. All the finger pointers and tongue wagers out there will be saying "I told you so...Bitcoin and Ponzi schemes are not mutually exclusive"

ChrisML

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Let it be done now PLS.

Break that $400 barrier again and level out with stamp. Stop this bs.

Richy_T

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Quote from: magicmexican on February 15, 2014, 11:12:08 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on February 15, 2014, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: Mythul on February 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

Someone put an email they received from Gox up here that said the coins had not been stolen or spent (if I remember correctly). How likely you think that's the truth depends on your point of view I guess.

Why would Gox send such emails even if its true?

It's further back in the thread if you want to look for it but I believe the speculation was that it was a standard letter sent to people expressing concerns and may have been written to cover several scenarios people were worried about.

spooderman

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Quote from: magicmexican on February 15, 2014, 11:12:08 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on February 15, 2014, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: Mythul on February 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

Someone put an email they received from Gox up here that said the coins had not been stolen or spent (if I remember correctly). How likely you think that's the truth depends on your point of view I guess.

Why would Gox send such emails even if its true?

why would they if it wasn't?

magicmexican

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Quote from: Richy_T on February 15, 2014, 11:06:10 AM

Quote from: Mythul on February 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

Someone put an email they received from Gox up here that said the coins had not been stolen or spent (if I remember correctly). How likely you think that's the truth depends on your point of view I guess.

Why would Gox send such emails even if its true?

Richy_T

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Quote from: Mythul on February 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM

Ok so who thinks that on Monday Mt.Gox will announce that they were hacked and need additional time ? I've read their statement and in no way did they say "We have the coins guys, chill." They deserve to go down because either they don't have the coins or they try to manipulate the market to make a profit. Just WOW, such machiavellian exchange.

Someone put an email they received from Gox up here that said the coins had not been stolen or spent (if I remember correctly). How likely you think that's the truth depends on your point of view I guess.

Richy_T

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Quote from: gizmoh on February 15, 2014, 05:06:20 AM

Many here tend to underestimate gravity of Gox collpase. According to Alexa ranking, Gox is still twice as popular as Bitstamp. Last wave of newcomers bought mainly from Gox. Many early adopters with big balances like Billy trusted Gox. Their volume is currently equivalent to stamp.
Lets not ignore that Gox customers ( including myself) have coins in cold storage or on other exchanges also.
When you lose thousands/millions of dollars/asset, one would hedge his losses by liquidating/realizing profits from stored coins. That's what i would personally do. A long bear market would ensue IMO.

OTOH, if you just lost a bunch of your coins from an exchange, the first thing you do is send them to another exchange? True believers expect to be able to spend them someday.

ft73

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Quote from: spooderman on February 15, 2014, 10:31:11 AM

gox being shit lead to stamp getting a lot more volume. stamp seems to be fairly faultless tbh. a lot of people seem to think it's not trustworthy. why is this?

Personally i had a few issues with BitStamp in the past ( stuck deposit / withdrawals ).
Nothing serious (especially compared to Gox), but their customer support should improve as it's lacking.

spooderman

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gox being shit lead to stamp getting a lot more volume. stamp seems to be fairly faultless tbh. a lot of people seem to think it's not trustworthy. why is this?

AmazonStuff

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Quote from: el_rlee on February 15, 2014, 10:22:12 AM

Quote from: ft73 on February 15, 2014, 10:19:10 AM

Quote from: el_rlee on February 15, 2014, 10:17:52 AM

Should BTC withdrawals work again now according the IRC announcement?

Not.

So which 3:15 was meant? 3:15am? Which day?

This is what I am referring to: http://pastebin.com/d7Lf3sJg

It was related to on re-enabling all bitcoin deposits and internal bitcoin transfers on Gox.

phyros

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Quote from: TERA on February 15, 2014, 10:27:08 AM

Think of all this not like a setback but like a purifiication and a purge of evil. The malleability problem revealed how incompetent and untrustworthy our current exchanges are. This will lead to the creation of new and trustworthy exchanges that we can build a future on, and hopefully people will abandon the old exchanges now. It is better that this happened now than later down the line when everyday people were using bitcoin. Then those people would get hurt so badly it would put such a negative imagine on btc that people would abandon it or governments might even ban it because of the losses its caused.

+1

TERA

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Think of all this not like a setback but like a purifiication and a purge of evil. The malleability problem revealed how incompetent and untrustworthy our current exchanges are. This will lead to the creation of new and trustworthy exchanges that we can build a future on, and hopefully people will abandon the old exchanges now. It is better that this happened now than later down the line when everyday people were using bitcoin. Then those people would get hurt so badly it would put such a negative imagine on btc that people would abandon it or governments might even ban it because of the losses its caused.

ft73

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