Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 29973.

MatTheCat

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Quote from: shmadz on February 03, 2014, 09:33:37 PM

You see! you are getting it!

bitcoin enables the small/medium guys to have a chance in this world that is controlled top-down by a very few, at the very top.

It will be a bumpy ride, so buckle up!

*edit* quick thought, that overstock guy is one of the 'medium' guys... why do you think the price of his company's stock dropped so hard after he came out in favour of bitcoin?

That is why I used to have such a boner for Bitcoin. But from not even small-medium guys, but from absolute non-players, monsters have been made in Bitcoin who have acted to distort and damage the health of the market, through not very sophisticated but time proven effective market cornering techniques. This makes Bitcoin a very dangerous playground for Johnny Come Lately capital at the moment and I am not so sure that a currency market where 50% of the entire quantity of that currency are owned by as many people, is exactly conducive to giving power to the people.

Quote from: GaliX on February 03, 2014, 09:36:39 PM

Which Bank again was laundered Billions and Billions of money for the Mexican cartel and nobody went to Jail? yea, Google it.
That's one of the reasons talking about Bitcoin as just for money laundry is absurd.

Do you have any wealth from ill-gotten gains? Perhaps a few large coke deals. Perhaps undeclared earnings that you don't fancy paying tax on?

If so, should the authorities come a knocking how would you go about justifying it or any asset that you bought with it?

Do you have access to Wells Fargo's 'Money Laundering Department'?

GaliX

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Quote from: MatTheCat on February 03, 2014, 08:36:41 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dgarcia on February 03, 2014, 08:21:55 PM

But then BTC-E price would get goxxed! Shocked

Only Russians would have fiat withdrawal issues.. and they are a small minority of BTC-e customers.

They may be a small minority of BTC-e customers but I bet you they represent a rather high volume of Russian wealth leaving the Russian economy, black market wealth or otherwise, all without giving Putin his cut. Putin is furious at Bitcoin and out to nail BTC-E for a good reason (a good reason in his mind).

Lets face it, the #1 use of Bitcoin right now in the world today is shifting money around off the radar of the banking system. Don't say it isn't cos it is. Bitcoin started life as an underground curency and therefore by definition, its initial target users were always going to be black/grey market participants. Honest John Law Abider got in on the action through speculation, speculation which came to dominate Bitcoin transactions, but speculation which is built around a spine of black market transactions.

Which Bank again was laundered Billions and Billions of money for the Mexican cartel and nobody went to Jail? yea, Google it.
That's one of the reasons talking about Bitcoin as just for money laundry is absurd.

dgarcia

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Quote from: GaliX on February 03, 2014, 09:03:19 PM

Silk Road also went down over night with over 200k Bitcoins on it.

And be settled in Europe may not help BTC-E. If Russia is really pissed off, 'cause cryptocurrencies were involved with the terror attacks (traded on BTC-E), than BTC-E could get the attention of Europe, too.

BTC-E is a Blackbox, and I think with their anonymity they are breaking serveral european laws, too. And until now nothing had happened, 'cause nobody payed attention to BTC-E. So they could be forced to correct themself quickly and fulfil all required obligations or will be shut down soon.

Also it could be that nothing will happen, but I would not say so fast that this is all totally insignificant.

It is like nearly every day in the Bitcoin-World:

Unclear.

shmadz

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Quote from: MatTheCat on February 03, 2014, 09:22:10 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 03, 2014, 09:15:03 PM

Ahh, Mat, bitcoin doesn't enable money laundering. The ones that profit from money laundering are the ones that enable money laundering.
Some day you will get this. I can feel it.

It isn't the fire that burns, its the heat.

It isn't the gun that kills, it is the person who fired it.

It isn't the knife stuck in your guts that kills you, it is your arteries pissing out blood that finishes you off.

Yeah yeah....but Bitcoin is a pretty good tool in the money launderers arsenal. Especially the small/medium enterprise money launderer that doesn't have access to corporate banking routes of money laundering...or even the large scale money launderer that doesn't want to pay the premiums of going through the conventional routes.

You see! you are getting it!

bitcoin enables the small/medium guys to have a chance in this world that is controlled top-down by a very few, at the very top.

It will be a bumpy ride, so buckle up!

*edit* quick thought, that overstock guy is one of the 'medium' guys... why do you think the price of his company's stock dropped so hard after he came out in favour of bitcoin?

Erdogan

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Quote from: MatTheCat on February 03, 2014, 09:22:10 PM

Quote from: shmadz on February 03, 2014, 09:15:03 PM

Ahh, Mat, bitcoin doesn't enable money laundering. The ones that profit from money laundering are the ones that enable money laundering.
Some day you will get this. I can feel it.

It isn't the fire that burns, its the heat.

It isn't the gun that kills, it is the person who fired it.

It isn't the knife stuck in your guts that kills you, it is your arteries pissing out blood that finishes you off.

Yeah yeah....but Bitcoin is a pretty good tool in the money launderers arsenal. Especially the small/medium enterprise money launderer that doesn't have access to corporate banking routes of money laundering...or even the large scale money launderer that doesn't want to pay the premiums of going through the conventional routes.

And... bullish or bearish?

MatTheCat

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Quote from: shmadz on February 03, 2014, 09:15:03 PM

Ahh, Mat, bitcoin doesn't enable money laundering. The ones that profit from money laundering are the ones that enable money laundering.
Some day you will get this. I can feel it.

It isn't the fire that burns, its the heat.

It isn't the gun that kills, it is the person who fired it.

It isn't the knife stuck in your guts that kills you, it is your arteries pissing out blood that finishes you off.

Yeah yeah....but Bitcoin is a pretty good tool in the money launderers arsenal. Especially the small/medium enterprise money launderer that doesn't have access to corporate banking routes of money laundering...or even the large scale money launderer that doesn't want to pay the premiums of going through the conventional routes.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: MatTheCat on February 03, 2014, 08:36:41 PM

Lets face it, the #1 use of Bitcoin right now in the world today is shifting money around off the radar of the banking system. Don't say it isn't cos it is. Bitcoin started life as an underground curency and therefore by definition, its initial target users were always going to be black/grey market participants. Honest John Law Abider got in on the action through speculation, speculation which came to dominate Bitcoin transactions, but speculation which is built around a spine of black market transactions.

Ahh, Mat, bitcoin doesn't enable money laundering. The ones that profit from money laundering are the ones that enable money laundering.

Some day you will get this. I can feel it.

MatTheCat

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Quote from: GaliX on February 03, 2014, 09:03:19 PM

I don't want to black talk or something like that but bad things have happened.

There are several examples of Bitcoin enterprises simply folding overnight for one reason or the other and taking everyone's coins or usd with them.

Even the most mainstream retard wouldn't be able to give you the 'tin-foil hat' treatment for being mindful of such a possibility occurring.

Erdogan

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Quote from: GaliX on February 03, 2014, 09:03:19 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:50:15 PM

Quote from: Peter R on February 03, 2014, 08:45:05 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:41:31 PM

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Only the comments here "get out" and "I got out". The interesting part for me was to see the reactions to the doubt. I don't think btce goes down in the near future. I have used them a lot and I think it is a splendid bourse.

Silk Road also went down over night with over 200k Bitcoins on it.

I simply don't want to risk this worst case scenario. I mean if I would be somebody who could face jail because of my Bitcoin exchange, I would turn it honestly off and run away with all the Bitcoins on it. As evil is it would be, it would be just smart.
Maybe you can even buy free of the Jail with that money later on, who knows?

I don't want to black talk or something like that but bad things have happened.

Well if it was me, I would at least try to dismantle it orderly.

The point with my post was, even (btc-e seen as a bank) a bank which only has a storage function, no lending, it will be kept in check by the market. No regulation necessary, no fake guarantees from the state necessary, no bailout with taxpayer money necessary. This is uplifting.

magicmexican

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Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:50:15 PM

Quote from: Peter R on February 03, 2014, 08:45:05 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:41:31 PM

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Only the comments here "get out" and "I got out". The interesting part for me was to see the reactions to the doubt. I don't think btce goes down in the near future. I have used them a lot and I think it is a splendid bourse.

Even if the chances are small, i am much more comfortable with coins in the wallet for now.

GaliX

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Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:50:15 PM

Quote from: Peter R on February 03, 2014, 08:45:05 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:41:31 PM

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Only the comments here "get out" and "I got out". The interesting part for me was to see the reactions to the doubt. I don't think btce goes down in the near future. I have used them a lot and I think it is a splendid bourse.

Silk Road also went down over night with over 200k Bitcoins on it.

I simply don't want to risk this worst case scenario. I mean if I would be somebody who could face jail because of my Bitcoin exchange, I would turn it honestly off and run away with all the Bitcoins on it. As evil is it would be, it would be just smart.
Maybe you can even buy free of the Jail with that money later on, who knows?

I don't want to black talk or something like that but bad things have happened.

ChartBuddy

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Explanation

Erdogan

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Quote from: Peter R on February 03, 2014, 08:45:05 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:41:31 PM

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Only the comments here "get out" and "I got out". The interesting part for me was to see the reactions to the doubt. I don't think btce goes down in the near future. I have used them a lot and I think it is a splendid bourse.

MatTheCat

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Quote from: Peter R on February 03, 2014, 08:45:05 PM

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Don't waste your mental energy.

Just another pea-brain taking his limited capacity to take in events and squashing it all into a paradigm that makes him feel good.

Peter R

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Quote from: Erdogan on February 03, 2014, 08:41:31 PM

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

This sounds interesting but I'm not following. Run on what bank? Evidence?

Erdogan

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1005

A digression from the btc-e debate: It seems we have a run on the bank, even if there is no fractional reserve lending, in fact no lending at all. This is what we can expect from banking in a bitcoin economy - sow some doubt, and you are gonners. This is reassuring. It is bullish - CCMF.

MatTheCat

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Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dgarcia on February 03, 2014, 08:21:55 PM

But then BTC-E price would get goxxed! Shocked

Only Russians would have fiat withdrawal issues.. and they are a small minority of BTC-e customers.

They may be a small minority of BTC-e customers but I bet you they represent a rather high volume of Russian wealth leaving the Russian economy, black market wealth or otherwise, all without giving Putin his cut. Putin is furious at Bitcoin and out to nail BTC-E for a good reason (a good reason in his mind).

Lets face it, the #1 use of Bitcoin right now in the world today is shifting money around off the radar of the banking system. Don't say it isn't cos it is. Bitcoin started life as an underground curency and therefore by definition, its initial target users were always going to be black/grey market participants. Honest John Law Abider got in on the action through speculation, speculation which came to dominate Bitcoin transactions, but speculation which is built around a spine of black market transactions.

shmadz

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@theshmadz

Quote from: magicmexican on February 03, 2014, 08:18:53 PM

Quote from: adamstgBit on February 03, 2014, 07:26:37 PM

you know the fact that poeple aren't dumping on the bad news from Russia, is very telling.
we've seen a overload of FUD this past month, and price is holding its own.
bitcoin is not some house of cards, that could topple over at any moment, thats for sure.
it use to feel like that, but now it feel likes bitcoin has passed the test, nothing can stop us now!

Well its somewhat a different FUD. People not selling @btc-e, because whats the point? If they will get shut down you dont get your fiat out of there fast enough, its kinda dangerous.

So ppl just moving coins to wallets and other exchanges

Have you seen the ltc dumping? I pulled all my crypto out of btce and moved to cryptsy last week to try and get in on the action. last night I tried to cash out into bitcoin and withdraw. The lag was so bad it would time me out of my session and make me log in again and start all over before I could even get a transaction done. Got my money out today though, not likely going back.

Quote from: magicmexican on February 03, 2014, 04:45:01 PM

btc-e is actually in trouble, i would recommend to withdraw from there, i did

btc-e, while it makes me feel squeamish sometimes, like it's a den of thieves or something, is miles ahead of cryptsy, and I just moved some btc back there in hopes of some bargains on ltc...

no risk, no reward

dgarcia

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Quote from: magicmexican on February 03, 2014, 08:18:53 PM

Well its somewhat a different FUD. People not selling @btc-e, because whats the point? If they will get shut down you dont get your fiat out of there fast enough, its kinda dangerous.

So ppl just moving coins to wallets and other exchanges

But then BTC-E price would get goxxed! Shocked

magicmexican

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Quote from: adamstgBit on February 03, 2014, 07:26:37 PM

you know the fact that poeple aren't dumping on the bad news from Russia, is very telling.
we've seen a overload of FUD this past month, and price is holding its own.
bitcoin is not some house of cards, that could topple over at any moment, thats for sure.
it use to feel like that, but now it feel likes bitcoin has passed the test, nothing can stop us now!

Well its somewhat a different FUD. People not selling @btc-e, because whats the point? If they will get shut down you dont get your fiat out of there fast enough, its kinda dangerous.

So ppl just moving coins to wallets and other exchanges

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