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Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 30022. (Read 26709854 times)

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
On most of the exchanges that I monitor, the BTC trade volume for Friday Jan/31 was extremely low.

Huobi (15.26 kBTC) and BTC-China (1.17 kBTC) were the most affected; both had about 1/6 of the volume of last Tuesday's  (Jan/28).   For the non-Chinese exchanges, that ratio was around 1/3.

The decrease at Chinese exchanges is easy to understand, since Jan/31 is the Chinese new Year, and AFAIK people have several days of vacations before and/of after it.  But the fall at the non-Chinese sites is puzzling, since they are usually very active on Fridays.  

This "experiment" may show how much China infuences other exchanges.   Except for MtGOX, the prices in all exchanges are obviously tied by arbitrage.  So perhaps (less volume in China) --> (less price variation) --> (less volume at all exchanges).  Or perhaps arbitrage trading is a large part of the volume; then (less volume in China) --> (less price variation in China) --> (less arbitrage trade).

OKCoin fell "only" to 1/3 compared to Tuesday.  That is another hint that its clientele includes a significant non-Chinese component (the people who keeep trading while the Chinese are all asleep).

We all know about BTC-China's rogue robot that traded ~40,000 BTC in 2.5 hours, 40 BTC at a time, around Jan/30 18:00 UTC (Jan/31 02:00am in China) .  But there are other weird things going on at that site.  For example, its order book now has an offer to sell ~100 BTC @ 4872.38 CNY, and a bid for ~175 BTC @ 4872.37 CNY -- and those two guys just sit there, nose-to-nose, without moving a penny.  

Like some other exchanges, BTC-China also has a stream of small trades within that narrow spread, moslty below 40 BTC. I suspect that it is a robot trading with itself, to cover up the lack of real transactions and/or to inflate their volume.

Once in a while, there is a transaction that changes the price: arbitrage, perhaps?

The crypto-coin community urgently needs to define professional ethics standards for exchanges, and set up an international entity that will audit them and rate them for compliance.


I agree. I think the exchanges are 95% daytrading/bot activity and 5% actual investment/divestment from occasional small players. So if the market leader (huobi) isn't moving then there's no reason for the bots and daytraders to trade and there is low volume. Also, even huobi itself is mostly fake volume due to the 0% fees. The big action is happening off of the exchanges. Or at least this is what we're led to belive. If it's not true then this is a house of cards waiting to fall apart.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
On most of the exchanges that I monitor, the BTC trade volume for Friday Jan/31 was extremely low.

Huobi (15.26 kBTC) and BTC-China (1.17 kBTC) were the most affected; both had about 1/6 of the volume of last Tuesday's  (Jan/28).   For the non-Chinese exchanges, that ratio was around 1/3.

The decrease at Chinese exchanges is easy to understand, since Jan/31 is the Chinese new Year, and AFAIK people have several days of vacations before and/of after it.  But the fall at the non-Chinese sites is puzzling, since they are usually very active on Fridays. 

This "experiment" may show how much China infuences other exchanges.   Except for MtGOX, the prices in all exchanges are obviously tied by arbitrage.  So perhaps (less volume in China) --> (less price variation) --> (less volume at all exchanges).  Or perhaps arbitrage trading is a large part of the volume; then (less volume in China) --> (less price variation in China) --> (less arbitrage trade).

OKCoin fell "only" to 1/3 compared to Tuesday.  That is another hint that its clientele includes a significant non-Chinese component (the people who keeep trading while the Chinese are all asleep).

We all know about BTC-China's rogue robot that traded ~40,000 BTC in 2.5 hours, 40 BTC at a time, around Jan/30 18:00 UTC (Jan/31 02:00am in China) .  But there are other weird things going on at that site.  For example, its order book now has an offer to sell ~100 BTC @ 4872.38 CNY, and a bid for ~175 BTC @ 4872.37 CNY -- and those two guys just sit there, nose-to-nose, without moving a penny. 

Like some other exchanges, BTC-China also has a stream of small trades within that narrow spread, moslty below 40 BTC. I suspect that it is a robot trading with itself, to cover up the lack of real transactions and/or to inflate their volume.

Once in a while, there is a transaction that changes the price: arbitrage, perhaps?

The crypto-coin community urgently needs to define professional ethics standards for exchanges, and set up an international entity that will audit them and rate them for compliance.

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust

Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):


               !   Wed !   Thu !    Fri !    Sat !    Sun !    Mon !    Tue !   Wed !   Thu !   Fri !                     
  EXCHANGE     ! 01/22 ! 01/23 !  01/24 !  01/25 !  01/26 !  01/27 !  01/28 ! 01/29 ! 01/30 ! 01/31 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp     |  8.31 |  7.40 |  15.78 |   8.70 |   9.70 |  25.19 |  20.04 |  7.04 | 13.13 |  7.73 | USD                 
  BTC-e        | 22.32 |  8.53 |  15.27 |   9.34 |  10.38 |  21.02 |  16.82 |  6.53 | 12.54 |  4.65 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  BitFinEx     |  2.97 |  2.83 |  10.99 |   4.62 |   7.88 |  15.63 |  13.62 |  3.87 |  8.18 |  3.91 | USD                 
  MtGOX        |  5.51 |  2.23 |   7.38 |   9.52 |  16.11 |  10.02 |  11.82 |  7.21 |  6.60 |  4.45 | USD,EUR,GBP,AUD,JPY 
  Bitcoin.DE   |  0.69 |  0.42 |   0.52 |   0.30 |   0.34 |   0.60 |   0.49 |  0.33 |  0.47 |  0.35 | EUR                 
  Kraken       |  0.25 |  0.19 |   0.46 |   0.19 |   0.24 |   0.63 |   0.54 |  0.24 |  0.37 |  0.20 | EUR                 
  CaVirtEx     |  0.15 |  0.17 |   0.41 |   0.33 |   0.10 |   0.40 |   0.22 |  0.21 |  0.25 |  0.24 | CAD                 
  CampBX       |  0.05 |  0.08 |   0.13 |   0.04 |   0.05 |   0.13 |   0.20 |  0.07 |  0.06 |  0.05 | USD                 
  Crypto-Trade |   .   |  0.01 |   0.01 |    .   |    .   |    .   |   0.01 |   .   |  0.01 |   .   | USD                 

  SUBTOTAL     | 40.25 | 21.86 |  50.95 |  33.04 |  44.80 |  73.62 |  63.76 | 25.50 | 41.61 | 21.58 |                     

  Huobi        | 25.81 | 25.67 |  89.25 |  58.16 |  91.31 |  63.13 |  92.88 | 32.14 | 29.27 | 15.26 | CNY                 
  OKCoin       | 15.88 | 16.50 |  34.01 |  26.33 |  31.40 |  35.41 |  52.37 | 29.11 | 18.56 | 17.11 | CNY                 
  BTC-China    |  1.62 |  2.01 |   6.82 |   3.04 |   5.55 |   4.43 |   6.45 |  1.94 |  1.99 |  1.17 | CNY (NOTE 1)

  SUBTOTAL     | 43.31 | 44.18 | 130.08 |  87.53 | 128.26 | 102.97 | 151.70 | 63.19 | 49.82 | 33.54 |                     

  TOTAL        | 83.56 | 66.04 | 181.03 | 120.57 | 173.06 | 176.59 | 215.46 | 88.69 | 91.43 | 55.12 |                     



All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. The BTC-e volumes now include retroactively also exchanges to EUR and RUR (together about 1 kBTC/day or less).  Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Coinbase volume is not available, neither at Bitcoinwisdom nor at Bitcoincharts, but they are said to use Bitstamp for currency conversion.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day.  For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)

(NOTE 1) On 2014-01-30, BTC-China had a burst of extremely fast, regular and atypical transactions, all with similar amounts (a few tens of BTC) and prices (~4836 CNY), adding up to about 41,050 BTC.  The burst started suddenly around 17:00 UTC and and stopped suddenly around 19:30 UTC. Presumably those transactions were made by a faulty robot trading against itself or some other robot, and did not represent actual exchange of money and bitcoins between distinct individuals. Therefore those anomalous transactions were subtracted from the BTC-China volume for Jan/30.


Can somebody research how many coins are sitting on those exchangers's order book?
I can't find a way to view the entire orders for huobi or okcoin
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
But fear by whom exactly, and why so late?  I doubt it was fear from new buyers who came in near the March/April run-up: they did not yet have much to lose.  So it was fear from people sitting on large gains thinking it could all vanish and they had better diversify, just in case, correct?  But why did it happen so much after the March/April growth spurt?  And are we likely to see this play out again?
Mtgox was having major liquidity issues and was facing major lawsuits at a time when it was the only major exchange. This fear triggered the final phase of repressed  capitulation to occur. You may notice low volume. This is because most of the buying occurred off-exchange by hedge funds.

OK, I think this all makes sense.  The MtGox fears reduced the total bid volume on the exchange, and when the final capitulation came (triggered by Gox concerns), there was insufficient USD liquidity to soak up the bitcoins and the exchange price fell dramatically.  The street price in Vancouver (local bitcoins) didn't fall during this period--in fact many exchangers were sold out!  So I think this was basically a market dislocation--there was ample demand from new small buyers, but the mechanism to acquire coins from the large holders at Gox had broken down.  

Will we see a final capitulation from this last November's growth spurt?
Now that most real trading occurs completely off of the exchanges, and there is no way to follow it, it is too difficult to predict what is going to happen, especially with all these constantly changing variables like mass adoption, government bans, and China. A capitulation might occur or it might just be sideways trading instead. There might be enough demand off exchange to execute the capitulation at market price rather than causing a drop. Or there might not, and certain types of news could change this at any time. I've given up trying to predict the future. Instead, I'm just following a basic TA strategy to move in out of my position dynamically so that I don't miss any major movements.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
But fear by whom exactly, and why so late?  I doubt it was fear from new buyers who came in near the March/April run-up: they did not yet have much to lose.  So it was fear from people sitting on large gains thinking it could all vanish and they had better diversify, just in case, correct?  But why did it happen so much after the March/April growth spurt?  And are we likely to see this play out again?
Mtgox was having major liquidity issues and was facing major lawsuits at a time when it was the only major exchange. This fear triggered the final phase of repressed  capitulation to occur. You may notice low volume. This is because most of the buying occurred off-exchange by hedge funds.

OK, I think this all makes sense.  The MtGox fears reduced the total bid volume on the exchange, and when the final capitulation came (triggered by Gox concerns), there was insufficient USD liquidity to soak up the bitcoins and the exchange price fell dramatically.  The street price in Vancouver (local bitcoins) didn't fall during this period--in fact many exchangers were sold out!  So I think this was basically a market dislocation--there was ample demand from new small buyers, but the mechanism to acquire coins from the large holders at Gox had broken down.  

Will we see a final capitulation from this last November's growth spurt?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003

Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):


               !   Wed !   Thu !    Fri !    Sat !    Sun !    Mon !    Tue !   Wed !   Thu !   Fri !                     
  EXCHANGE     ! 01/22 ! 01/23 !  01/24 !  01/25 !  01/26 !  01/27 !  01/28 ! 01/29 ! 01/30 ! 01/31 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp     |  8.31 |  7.40 |  15.78 |   8.70 |   9.70 |  25.19 |  20.04 |  7.04 | 13.13 |  7.73 | USD                 
  BTC-e        | 22.32 |  8.53 |  15.27 |   9.34 |  10.38 |  21.02 |  16.82 |  6.53 | 12.54 |  4.65 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  BitFinEx     |  2.97 |  2.83 |  10.99 |   4.62 |   7.88 |  15.63 |  13.62 |  3.87 |  8.18 |  3.91 | USD                 
  MtGOX        |  5.51 |  2.23 |   7.38 |   9.52 |  16.11 |  10.02 |  11.82 |  7.21 |  6.60 |  4.45 | USD,EUR,GBP,AUD,JPY 
  Bitcoin.DE   |  0.69 |  0.42 |   0.52 |   0.30 |   0.34 |   0.60 |   0.49 |  0.33 |  0.47 |  0.35 | EUR                 
  Kraken       |  0.25 |  0.19 |   0.46 |   0.19 |   0.24 |   0.63 |   0.54 |  0.24 |  0.37 |  0.20 | EUR                 
  CaVirtEx     |  0.15 |  0.17 |   0.41 |   0.33 |   0.10 |   0.40 |   0.22 |  0.21 |  0.25 |  0.24 | CAD                 
  CampBX       |  0.05 |  0.08 |   0.13 |   0.04 |   0.05 |   0.13 |   0.20 |  0.07 |  0.06 |  0.05 | USD                 
  Crypto-Trade |   .   |  0.01 |   0.01 |    .   |    .   |    .   |   0.01 |   .   |  0.01 |   .   | USD                 

  SUBTOTAL     | 40.25 | 21.86 |  50.95 |  33.04 |  44.80 |  73.62 |  63.76 | 25.50 | 41.61 | 21.58 |                     

  Huobi        | 25.81 | 25.67 |  89.25 |  58.16 |  91.31 |  63.13 |  92.88 | 32.14 | 29.27 | 15.26 | CNY                 
  OKCoin       | 15.88 | 16.50 |  34.01 |  26.33 |  31.40 |  35.41 |  52.37 | 29.11 | 18.56 | 17.11 | CNY                 
  BTC-China    |  1.62 |  2.01 |   6.82 |   3.04 |   5.55 |   4.43 |   6.45 |  1.94 |  1.99 |  1.17 | CNY (NOTE 1)

  SUBTOTAL     | 43.31 | 44.18 | 130.08 |  87.53 | 128.26 | 102.97 | 151.70 | 63.19 | 49.82 | 33.54 |                     

  TOTAL        | 83.56 | 66.04 | 181.03 | 120.57 | 173.06 | 176.59 | 215.46 | 88.69 | 91.43 | 55.12 |                     



All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. The BTC-e volumes now include retroactively also exchanges to EUR and RUR (together about 1 kBTC/day or less).  Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Coinbase volume is not available, neither at Bitcoinwisdom nor at Bitcoincharts, but they are said to use Bitstamp for currency conversion.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day.  For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)

(NOTE 1) On 2014-01-30, BTC-China had a burst of extremely fast, regular and atypical transactions, all with similar amounts (a few tens of BTC) and prices (~4836 CNY), adding up to about 41,050 BTC.  The burst started suddenly around 17:00 UTC and and stopped suddenly around 19:30 UTC. Presumably those transactions were made by a faulty robot trading against itself or some other robot, and did not represent actual exchange of money and bitcoins between distinct individuals. Therefore those anomalous transactions were subtracted from the BTC-China volume for Jan/30.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500





Fear...

BTC went from $10 to $260 ..  that is huge.

Then it went to $50.. that is huge..

Then back to $140.. that is huge..

And then people got scared and just fear took over..

Fair enough.  But fear by whom exactly, and why so late?  I doubt it was fear from new buyers who came in near the March/April run-up: they did not yet have much to lose.  So it was fear from people sitting on large gains thinking it could all vanish and they had better diversify, just in case, correct?  But why did it happen so much after the March/April growth spurt?  And are we likely to see this play out again?
Mtgox was having major liquidity issues and was facing major lawsuits at a time when it was the only major  exchange. This fear triggered the final phase of repressed  capitulation to occur. You may notice low volume. This is because most of the buying occurred off-exchange by hedge funds.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250





Fear...

BTC went from $10 to $260 ..  that is huge.

Then it went to $50.. that is huge..

Then back to $140.. that is huge..

And then people got scared and just fear took over..

Fair enough.  But fear by whom exactly, and why so late?  I doubt it was fear from new buyers who came in near the March/April run-up: they did not yet have much to lose.  So it was fear from people sitting on large gains thinking it could all vanish and they had better diversify, just in case, correct?  But why did it happen so much after the bubble?  And are we likely to see this play out again?
many EW theorists see it as likely, yes. perhaps a typical ABC correction would have been too profitable to traders for the market to allow it, hence the choppy movement over the past month. the post-crash consolidation is both a time for profit-taking and accumulation -- and it's hard to say which force will be greater over the next month or two.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007





Fear...

BTC went from $10 to $260 ..  that is huge.

Then it went to $50.. that is huge..

Then back to $140.. that is huge..

And then people got scared and just fear took over..

Fair enough.  But fear by whom exactly, and why so late?  I doubt it was fear from new buyers who came in near the March/April run-up: they did not yet have much to lose.  So it was fear from people sitting on large gains thinking it could all vanish and they had better diversify, just in case, correct?  But why did it happen so much after the March/April growth spurt?  And are we likely to see this play out again?
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

a break upwards from this consolidation could be a false breakout. bearish wedge forming. watching closely. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women

I'm starting a business as a Bitcoin consultant. There's so much work to be done building the infrastructure.  


A Bitcoin Consultant!?

But you are a Bitcoin Nutter and since I have became aware of you, you have been nothing but wrong.

I wish you all the best on your new venture but I think I shall pass on your services thankyou very much.

What was I ever wrong about? Can you provide any evidence of this assertion? I may be talking my book, but my book is doing just fine.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
I'm starting a business as a Bitcoin consultant. There's so much work to be done building the infrastructure.  
A Bitcoin Consultant!?

But you are a Bitcoin Nutter and since I have became aware of you, you have been nothing but wrong.

Billyjoeallen has made many helpful and insightful contributions here.  People will be successful as bitcoin consultants and it would give me pleasure to see our own forum members succeed.


MatTheCat, you haven't answered my question from last night:


....and if u think that big hands in marketplaces don't attempt to bend and manipulate the market, then...erm....

..WAKEN UP LADDIE!

Out of curiosity, MatTheCat, how would you define "manipulation"?  Is posting a big ask wall to try to scare smaller fish into selling "manipulation" or is that just "strategy"?  How about if your "buddy" is the one who eats your big ask wall?

I'm trying to figure out where you draw the line between natural and unnatural price movements.  
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1823
1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
But the one thing I can't figure out is what caused the dip (see below) this last summer.  I believe a lot of people (myself included) think we will see something like this play out again.  But does anyone have a rational explanation for why this might have happened in the first place?  I remember this moment well: everyone on local bitcoins in Vancouver was sold out of coins (or asking ridiculous premiums) which I thought was odd (it was as though it was clear to everyone that the price was too low).



Actually, there's no mystery about what caused that dip -- Gox officially suspended withdrawals on June 20th. The market began dropping immediately on the news as people speculated that Gox was going under. The price bottomed out at 66, bounced back at about the same rate it had fallen, then resumed the pre-news trend of meandering around 100 before ultimately heading upward and into the November rally.
however, bears at that time would have asserted that the downtrend began considerably earlier than the june 20th suspension. as evidenced by the chart.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
Noch ein Doppelpost.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000

I'm starting a business as a Bitcoin consultant. There's so much work to be done building the infrastructure.  


A Bitcoin Consultant!?

But you are a Bitcoin Nutter and since I have became aware of you, you have been nothing but wrong.

I wish you all the best on your new venture but I think I shall pass on your services thankyou very much.

I can't find the coin cheapness indacator on bitcoinwisdom??

where can I find a place that charts this indacator?

It is the most accurate indacator for deciding when to buy and sell that I have ever seen!

Ah, that'll be the 200 day MA. Last two crashes, Bitcoin price eventually dipped below this line.

It is currently running in $300 - $400 range should Bitcoin pay it a visit in the next few weeks.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1007
Hide your women
But the one thing I can't figure out is what caused the dip (see below) this last summer.  I believe a lot of people (myself included) think we will see something like this play out again.  But does anyone have a rational explanation for why this might have happened in the first place?  I remember this moment well: everyone on local bitcoins in Vancouver was sold out of coins (or asking ridiculous premiums) which I thought was odd (it was as though it was clear to everyone that the price was too low).



Actually, there's no mystery about what caused that dip -- Gox officially suspended withdrawals on June 20th. The market began dropping immediately on the news as people speculated that Gox was going under. The price bottomed out at 66, bounced back at about the same rate it had fallen, then resumed the pre-news trend of meandering around 100 before ultimately heading upward and into the November rally.

Ok, that makes sense. I wasn't really following the day-to-day news during that period. Diversifications of exchanges is a very good development IMHO because MtGox was such a bottleneck and potential single point of failure. The beauty of the free market is that every problem is a potential entrepreneurial opportunity. Mark's incompetence as a CEO actually ended up helping the industry.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
had some fun with charts.



 Tongue


I can't find the coin cheapness indacator on bitcoinwisdom??

where can I find a place that charts this indacator?

It is the most accurate indacator for deciding when to buy and sell that I have ever seen!
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
What are folks planning on doing with themselves if there are months of sideways movements? Will you dabble in altcoins? Start a Bitcoin business? Drive yourself to despair trying to trade a $700-850 gap or just set an alarm for when there's an explosion?

I've realised that excitement in either direction is what's keeping me here more than financial gains, not that they're to be sniffed at.

During months of stagnation I do pretty much the same as usual. mine coins, hoard 90% and send the rest to the exchange for speculation.

The only thing that changes is that I tend to sell more coins during these times in order to keep my exchange account roughly balanced so that I'm ready for the eventual move to either side...
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