Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31642.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1013

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:27:26 PM

we are also dumping massive amounts of fertilizers and organic waste into our oceans. This encourages algae blooms that absorb dissolved oxygen and create more CO2.

And a not-insignificant fraction of that comes from overproduction of corn caused by ethanol subsidies.

Subsidies that were sold to the public under the guise of helping to solve the very problems which they cause.

Neat trick - convince the public that you need more money in order to solve a problem that's caused them giving you money and you can be set for life.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

It's true I've picked up only the picture from there (didn't read the whole thing). The idea is this though. A very small amount of CO2 is produced artificially.

Pruden

hero member

Activity: 496

Merit: 500

Spanish Bitcoin trader

Quote from: 2017orso on November 24, 2013, 02:38:25 PM

Interesting, mind linking some sources, books or otherwise of achieving a higher understanding of relevant environmental sustainability science please. Thanks.

Not sure if serious, but "Collapse" by Jared Diamond is quite an insight into the relationships between several societies along history and their environments, the challenges they faced and how they reacted to them, which influenced their sustainability (it's not all about collapses, there are whole chapters about more successful civilizations, like Japan or Papua).

The worst part is how many people could see problems coming but failed to react because of tradition, selfishness, etc.

ablewasiereisawelba

full member

Activity: 133

Merit: 100

Quote from: macsga on November 24, 2013, 03:27:49 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:14:53 PM

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: micalith on November 24, 2013, 01:21:03 PM

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

Posts like this make me afraid to buy bitcoin.

Sword Smith

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 286

Neptune, Scalable Privacy

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 24, 2013, 03:18:57 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:01:10 PM

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video: If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently? Roll Eyes

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance". We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite. If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't. People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for. This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

ZB is right. It is nice to see someone who understands fundamental economic truths. You can just study BP's Statistical Report if you still think that we are running out of resources. The truth is that known oil reserves are growing faster than oil consumption.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: macsga on November 24, 2013, 03:27:49 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:14:53 PM

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: micalith on November 24, 2013, 01:21:03 PM

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

In the link you provided, the position you are taking is listed as a "climate myth". The response concludes with

Quote

The level of atmospheric CO2 is building up, the additional CO2 is being produced by burning fossil fuels, and that build up is accelerating.

.

emanymton

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 106

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:08:41 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on November 24, 2013, 02:19:52 PM

It's hard to believe I have something in common with climate science deniers.
I was converted over to Bitcoin and Austrian economic precisely because of my fundamental understand in environmental sustainability.

Understanding of Environmental Science is the catalyst that accelerates Bitcoin adoption to the masses.

I love that: "science" "deniers" - that's two appeals to authority in a single term. The climate change crowd is the most environmentally destructive out there. To care about carbon emissions over things that actually matter, like pollution, is anti-environmental alarmism. It's just an excuse for a global tax. I'm glad that whole charade is winding down, after changing its marketing from "global warming" to "climate change" after the earth refused to warm as commanded. It was one of the lamest spectacles I've seen.

+1 The greenhouse gas that has the most effect on temperature is water vapour. True story.

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:20:15 PM

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on November 24, 2013, 03:16:14 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Well with a half a percent in commission for tradeing, it means if you sold just one bitcoin, you need the price to drop at least $8.2 to be able to buy in and break even. That's 1% of a bitcoin. Is it really worth the risk/effort?

Yeah the fees are ruining it but I still have 50% of the coins.

Quote from: macsga on November 24, 2013, 03:18:03 PM

Quote from: atleticofa on November 24, 2013, 03:15:56 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Bulls dont care about feelings Wink

05:19 am in Tokyo. Monday wakes up in Asia... Wink

So, what you mean? good or bad what I did?

Probably bad, to be honest. Mondays are generally one of the busiest trading days as money starts arriving on peoples accounts and price can rise. But it's your money, so, you know. you decide whats best.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:14:53 PM

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: micalith on November 24, 2013, 01:21:03 PM

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

IT IS made up. There's a lot more CO2 produced naturally than artificially. This is a very nice way to get your tax money for their pockets. You can find out more here (and verify with your scientific sources).

http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm

That's why I hope Bitcoin prevails. I hate those guys.

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:14:53 PM

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: micalith on November 24, 2013, 01:21:03 PM

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

Please do some research, here is a good overview to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Nature does have good pH buffers, but in addition to the direct acidification via carbon,

Quote

CO2 (aq) + H2O <-> H2CO3 <-> HCO3(−) + H(+) <-> CO3(2−) + 2 H(+)

we are also dumping massive amounts of fertilizers and organic waste into our oceans. This encourages algae blooms that absorb dissolved oxygen and create more CO2.

Mirsad

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Bitcoin - love & hate

Quote from: rpietila on November 24, 2013, 03:13:40 PM

Zang (and others), what links would you suggest:
how to explain Bitcoin to treasurers of a trust which has just received a hefty donation in bitcoins, with a stipulation that they cannot be sold at will, rather according to The Plan Wink

Tell them it's a very elaborate pyramide scheme, but they have to cash out in trunks, otherwise there will be a flashcrash.

Shak

full member

Activity: 134

Merit: 100

adressing the climate stuff:
as a scientist who has read the papers: there is an unusual fast change in temperature, co2 concentrations and ocean pH value. since the number of volcanic eruptions didn't spike and the sun is quite silent, no natural source of those changes were found. thus there is a possibility of an imbalance induced by mankind.
although many studies are carried out, no natural origin of those changes has been proven so far.

changes in all those values above wouldn't be critical at all, life is quite adaptive. it changes a few million species and continues on. our influence towards that is neglectible. there is just a chance that these changes may have negative influence on our lifestyle and wealth - thats why it became spreaded by mass-media and politics... usually we don't get this kind of attention while the work is still in progress Wink

adressing the bitcoin stuff:

lets hope the asian maniacs crash the market down to 500, i want to buy some more bitcoins. but i would rather bet on a consolidation, followed by a massive rise by the end of the week. new money is incoming, fueling a new bubble?

UnDerDoG81

legendary

Activity: 2184

Merit: 1213

Quote from: crazy_rabbit on November 24, 2013, 03:16:14 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Well with a half a percent in commission for tradeing, it means if you sold just one bitcoin, you need the price to drop at least $8.2 to be able to buy in and break even. That's 1% of a bitcoin. Is it really worth the risk/effort?

Yeah the fees are ruining it but I still have 50% of the coins.

Quote from: macsga on November 24, 2013, 03:18:03 PM

Quote from: atleticofa on November 24, 2013, 03:15:56 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Bulls dont care about feelings Wink

05:19 am in Tokyo. Monday wakes up in Asia... Wink

So, what you mean? good or bad what I did?

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:01:10 PM

That's a strawman, but here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcWkN4ngR2Y

So according to the video: If we're not running out of resources, why do we need to use them more efficiently? Roll Eyes

To deny we are running out of resources, is the true "economic ignorance". We live in a debt based system that requires infinite growth but our planet and it's resources are certainly finite. If we had infinite resources, our debt based system could go on forever, but it can't because we don't. People don't look at what it takes to make that car, that some guy took a loan out on and the bank created money from air to pay for. This is why our system will eventually collapse because eventually you will run out of the resources required to build the items that people go into debt to buy. Without people taking on more debt, banks can't create more money from thin air and it all comes tumbling down.

Zangelbert Bingledack

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: rpietila on November 24, 2013, 03:13:40 PM

Zang (and others), what links would you suggest:
how to explain Bitcoin to treasurers of a trust which has just received a hefty donation in bitcoins, with a stipulation that they cannot be sold at will, rather according to The Plan Wink

I don't know how trust treasurers think. Probably most important is they don't accidentally lose it. Maybe I'd just say it is a mathematically secure global asset register, and they just got a large share of it. If the world decides to go onto that asset register system, that share will be worth a lot.

macsga

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1002

Strange, yet attractive.

Quote from: atleticofa on November 24, 2013, 03:15:56 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Bulls dont care about feelings Wink

05:19 am in Tokyo. Monday wakes up in Asia... Wink

crazy_rabbit

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Well with a half a percent in commission for tradeing, it means if you sold just one bitcoin, you need the price to drop at least $8.2 to be able to buy in and break even. That's 1% of a bitcoin. Is it really worth the risk/effort?

atleticofa

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on November 24, 2013, 03:11:39 PM

Sold at 820$ on stamp. Had a good feeling about that. Lets see what happens ^^

Bulls dont care about feelings Wink

Zangelbert Bingledack

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: notme on November 24, 2013, 03:09:39 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 24, 2013, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: micalith on November 24, 2013, 01:21:03 PM

some might interpret that you're implying that climate change isn't real btw . . . .

The climate is changing, yes, as it always does. The idea that there is some serious crisis going on with man-made climate change is a total sham, however.

Regardless of climate, ocean acidification via CO2 absorption is a serious threat to many marine species... especially tasty ones.

Perhaps, and I haven't looked into that specifically but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a made-up thing as well. pH regulation should be among the easiest things for nature to handle. Much more difficult is pollutants and overfishing (that is one resource we can run out of, unlike oil). Leave that to Bitcoin. Property rights defined over oceans would end overfishing immediately.

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Zang (and others), what links would you suggest:
how to explain Bitcoin to treasurers of a trust which has just received a hefty donation in bitcoins, with a stipulation that they cannot be sold at will, rather according to The Plan Wink

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