Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 31700.

BRADLEYPLOOF

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Quote from: ag@th0s on November 22, 2013, 12:06:17 PM

Quote from: gandhibt on November 22, 2013, 10:40:21 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on November 22, 2013, 10:30:09 AM

Quote from: gandhibt on November 22, 2013, 07:59:49 AM

This loan thing is depending what is the situation. It's dumb to say that investing loaned money is absolutely wrong or that it's right. Many people spend rest of their lives in debt hell and investing some of that to bitcoin might be the way to get rid of that debt. There's risk but you have to calculate those risks based on your situation.

When you're in a hole, dig faster?

Maybe you can do a 180 curve while digging and get out of that hole.

You can't get out of a hole by digging - you need to find something that is about to defy gravity to lift you out

What if you dug sideways at a gentle upward trajectory? Or dug out stairs?

ag@th0s

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Activity: 202

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Quote from: gandhibt on November 22, 2013, 10:40:21 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on November 22, 2013, 10:30:09 AM

Quote from: gandhibt on November 22, 2013, 07:59:49 AM

This loan thing is depending what is the situation. It's dumb to say that investing loaned money is absolutely wrong or that it's right. Many people spend rest of their lives in debt hell and investing some of that to bitcoin might be the way to get rid of that debt. There's risk but you have to calculate those risks based on your situation.

When you're in a hole, dig faster?

Maybe you can do a 180 curve while digging and get out of that hole.

You can't get out of a hole by digging - you need to find something that is about to defy gravity to lift you out

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 22, 2013, 11:59:00 AM

after 6 confermation

i dont give a shit if your a scammer, ill give you the PPUSD

Yeah you do that. The rest of the world has shit to do. "6 confirmations?" Loco! Grin

Zangelbert Bingledack

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The blocksize issue is one huge ceteris paribus fallacy.

ChartBuddy

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1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ

Coinseeker

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Activity: 252

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Quote from: Rampion on November 22, 2013, 11:56:50 AM

I'm having a deja-vu of the conversations we had in the Summer.

Coinseeker said BTC was doomed, that it was a joke, and that the future was Ripple. He said that BTC was a bad investment compared to Ripple.

We all know how that played out. BTC price surged 7 times and XRP has lost 12 times its value against BTC.

Well played, Coinseeker Wink

Ripple remains the future and XRP is holding quite stable verses the dollar. Obviously verses BTC it's higher, because BTC is worth more now. Genius. Roll Eyes

And it was well played because I always kept BTC. Wink

adamstgBit

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:54:28 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 22, 2013, 11:53:04 AM

Ripple is based on trust. it will fail.

All transactions are based on trust. Since mankind first began bartering.

after 6 confermation

i dont give a shit if your a scammer, ill give you the PPUSD

Pruden

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Activity: 496

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Spanish Bitcoin trader

Quote from: phoenix1 on November 22, 2013, 11:56:06 AM

Quote from: Richy_T on November 22, 2013, 11:32:58 AM

Quote from: phoenix1 on November 22, 2013, 11:26:42 AM

As I understand it, the payment processors referred to in the video would handle smaller value transactions at a rate much faster than 7tps, which would then be added to the blockchain by the payment processor.
I am not a techy, so my understanding may be incorrect, but this is how I understood it.
Perhaps there is someone more qualified on hand who could explain how this would work.

I am also speculating that it is exactly this kind of 'bolt on' service that is part of the planned evolution of Bitcoin and why we see VC money coming in now.

Basically a fancy escrow service. Which is what banks and the credit card companies are at the moment in certain aspects.

So,in theory, could this kind of service be offered to the general public at a price that undercuts CC's and banks and makes the 7tps and the blockside limit non-issues ?

Everyone thinks off-chain payment processors will be created on their own. The question is, are they being created?

Rampion

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Quote from: adamstgBit on November 22, 2013, 11:53:04 AM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:48:47 AM

Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 11:24:28 AM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:20:19 AM

There's honestly no reason to be bearish on Bitcoin, for any reason, except the centralization of Bitcoin. (Which seems they are proposing) The only thing required to overcome the 1mb limit and maintain it, is to increase off blockchain transactions. This is what Ripple is for and will allow Bitcoin transactions with virtually no limit.

Though Ripple is centralized - does this not beat the purpose of Bitcoin entirely? In essence we'll have created a commodity like gold, but NOT a currency.

Even if Ripple were centralized, which it's not, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Because the Ripple protocol is about transactions, not storing Bitcoins with no counter-party risk. If you buy a Gyft card, you have to send BTC to Bitpay, a centralized company. Is that an issue for you? Using Ripple gateways is the same as this or any exchange. Frankly at this point, it's not worth spelling out further because soon most consumers will be utilizing the Ripple network and won't even know it. The point in my original comment was, there's already a working protocol that solves this. That's why diehard Bitcoiners created Ripple, they knew the limitation of the Bitcoin payment network. So, 7tps is not a reason to be bearish, centralization by the Bitcoin devs, would be however.

Ripple is based on trust. it will fail.

I'm having a deja-vu of the conversations we had in the Summer.

Coinseeker said BTC was doomed, that it was a joke, and that the future was Ripple. He said that BTC was a bad investment compared to Ripple.

We all know how that played out. BTC price surged 7 times and XRP has lost 12 times its value against BTC.

Well played, Coinseeker Wink

phoenix1

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Quote from: Richy_T on November 22, 2013, 11:32:58 AM

Quote from: phoenix1 on November 22, 2013, 11:26:42 AM

As I understand it, the payment processors referred to in the video would handle smaller value transactions at a rate much faster than 7tps, which would then be added to the blockchain by the payment processor.
I am not a techy, so my understanding may be incorrect, but this is how I understood it.
Perhaps there is someone more qualified on hand who could explain how this would work.

I am also speculating that it is exactly this kind of 'bolt on' service that is part of the planned evolution of Bitcoin and why we see VC money coming in now.

Basically a fancy escrow service. Which is what banks and the credit card companies are at the moment in certain aspects.

So,in theory, could this kind of service be offered to the general public at a price that undercuts CC's and banks and makes the 7tps and the blockside limit non-issues ?

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: adamstgBit on November 22, 2013, 11:53:04 AM

Ripple is based on trust. it will fail.

All transactions are based on trust. Since mankind first began bartering.

gambitv

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Activity: 196

Merit: 100

OK, time to dampen this party, let some people get on the train.

Quote from: YoYa on November 21, 2013, 06:10:26 PM

(BTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTC)
(BTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC)
(BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC)
(BTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTC)
(BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTC)
(BTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTCBTC) (BTCBTC)
(BTCBTC) (BTCBTCBTC)
.-.
] [ .-. _ .-----.
." """" """""" """"| .--`
(:--:--:--:--:--:--:--:-| [___ .------------------------.
|BTC : : : : : : [_9_] |'='|.----------------------.|
/|.___________________________|___|'--.___.--.___.--.___.-'|
/ ||_.--.______.--.______.--._ |---\'--\-.-/==\-.-/==\-.-/-'/--
/__;^=(==)======(==)======(==)=^~^^^ ^^^^(-)^^^^(-)^^^^(-)^^^ jgs
~~~^~~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~^~~~

Check this out on reddit - Bitcoin Was Created By DARPA

TL;DR bitcoin is a global digital currency, regulation was created in tandem with development and adoption, bitcoin is not and never was meant to be a liberty promoting value exchange. There is no "satoshi". The central banks are already the largest holders of bitcoin. Bitcoin IS going to the moon because of this.

adamstgBit

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Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:48:47 AM

Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 11:24:28 AM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:20:19 AM

There's honestly no reason to be bearish on Bitcoin, for any reason, except the centralization of Bitcoin. (Which seems they are proposing) The only thing required to overcome the 1mb limit and maintain it, is to increase off blockchain transactions. This is what Ripple is for and will allow Bitcoin transactions with virtually no limit.

Though Ripple is centralized - does this not beat the purpose of Bitcoin entirely? In essence we'll have created a commodity like gold, but NOT a currency.

Even if Ripple were centralized, which it's not, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Because the Ripple protocol is about transactions, not storing Bitcoins with no counter-party risk. If you buy a Gyft card, you have to send BTC to Bitpay, a centralized company. Is that an issue for you? Using Ripple gateways is the same as this or any exchange. Frankly at this point, it's not worth spelling out further because soon most consumers will be utilizing the Ripple network and won't even know it. The point in my original comment was, there's already a working protocol that solves this. That's why diehard Bitcoiners created Ripple, they knew the limitation of the Bitcoin payment network. So, 7tps is not a reason to be bearish, centralization by the Bitcoin devs, would be however.

Ripple is based on trust. it will fail.

Coinseeker

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 11:24:28 AM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:20:19 AM

There's honestly no reason to be bearish on Bitcoin, for any reason, except the centralization of Bitcoin. (Which seems they are proposing) The only thing required to overcome the 1mb limit and maintain it, is to increase off blockchain transactions. This is what Ripple is for and will allow Bitcoin transactions with virtually no limit.

Though Ripple is centralized - does this not beat the purpose of Bitcoin entirely? In essence we'll have created a commodity like gold, but NOT a currency.

Even if Ripple were centralized, which it's not, it doesn't defeat the purpose at all. Because the Ripple protocol is about transactions, not storing Bitcoins with no counter-party risk. If you buy a Gyft card, you have to send BTC to Bitpay, a centralized company. Is that an issue for you? Using Ripple gateways is the same as this or any exchange. Frankly at this point, it's not worth spelling out further because soon most consumers will be utilizing the Ripple network and won't even know it. The point in my original comment was, there's already a working protocol that solves this. That's why diehard Bitcoiners created Ripple, they knew the limitations of the Bitcoin payment network. So, 7tps is not a reason to be bearish, centralization by the Bitcoin devs, would be however.

philip2000uk

sr. member

Activity: 276

Merit: 250

BOARDING!

YOLO Airport (Where I did my flight training and where mythbusters used that parachute plane, I almost blocked them lol) to Singapore

http://skyvector.com/?ll=38.579377107767435,-121.85705566334238&chart=304&zoom=3&plan=A.WS.WSSS:A.K2.KDWA

CryptStorm

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Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: CryptStorm on November 22, 2013, 11:19:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: YoYa on November 22, 2013, 11:02:01 AM

786 is key resistance! Need the breakthrough before the moon, them rockets don't build themselves you know.

Seem to me we are building the platform to blast right through that resistance as we speak
Gox 6hr chart looks exactly like that - no way it is a top

What is typically made of the declining volume coming off the spike at 900 in both directions-- you know, the mountain with equal sides of volume on that same chart?

...bump...

Yoya? Anyone?

Okurkabinladin

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 506

Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 11:24:28 AM

Quote from: Coinseeker on November 22, 2013, 11:20:19 AM

There's honestly no reason to be bearish on Bitcoin, for any reason, except the centralization of Bitcoin. (Which seems they are proposing) The only thing required to overcome the 1mb limit and maintain it, is to increase off blockchain transactions. This is what Ripple is for and will allow Bitcoin transactions with virtually no limit.

Though Ripple is centralized - does this not beat the purpose of Bitcoin entirely? In essence we'll have created a commodity like gold, but NOT a currency.

How much decentralized is bitcoin today, when its meat (yes, I am talking about miners) is controlled by few ASIC manufacturing corporations and its bones (users) put their trust into unreliable (and centralized) exchanges. I´d switch to ripple client as bitcoin trading tool entirely, if not for still relatively low (but rising) liquidity. Atleast I can use it without Open Labs wanting my ID card and 1% transaction fees.

Syke

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Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 11:13:38 AM

Not sure if your intention is to argue for or against me, but that exactly shows why the 7 tps limit is by design (thus should not be removed to ensure decentralization, another key point in bitcoin design) and makes it impossible for it to compete with credit card companies.

Who says bitcoin is competing with credit card companies? They both serve very different purposes.

Richy_T

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1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

Quote from: phoenix1 on November 22, 2013, 11:26:42 AM

As I understand it, the payment processors referred to in the video would handle smaller value transactions at a rate much faster than 7tps, which would then be added to the blockchain by the payment processor.
I am not a techy, so my understanding may be incorrect, but this is how I understood it.
Perhaps there is someone more qualified on hand who could explain how this would work.

I am also speculating that it is exactly this kind of 'bolt on' service that is part of the planned evolution of Bitcoin and why we see VC money coming in now.

Basically a fancy escrow service. Which is what banks and the credit card companies are at the moment in certain aspects.

Rampion

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Activity: 1148

Merit: 1018

Quote from: philip2000uk on November 22, 2013, 11:18:18 AM

Quote from: Rampion on November 22, 2013, 10:48:33 AM

Quote from: Boxman90 on November 22, 2013, 10:30:16 AM

Quote from: Davyd05 on November 22, 2013, 10:18:29 AM

I think we're at or approaching 1 tx a second.. so we need 7x as many were getting now before we start to worry about that.

Imagine the utopian mass adoption that's being fed to the public.

Take a small country (or a large American city) with about 15 million inhabitants, or 5 million households.
Every household will have to do groceries about each other day, so that's 2.5 million customers in supermarkets each day countrywide.
Day has 24 hours, so that's 104166 transactions per hour
= 29 transactions per second

And this is for one small country only, for only the basic needs (food), and that's already 4 times what the Bitcoin network can physically handle.

You're not going to convince me that the Bitcoin protocol will ever be able to sustain a world economy for day-to-day transactions.

Hence why I'll always be bearish, even though it's a great market to profit from atm.

Nonsense. Only a retard would think that a block-chain based currency is efficient for day-by-day purchases as grocery shopping.

As warchwoord said 1MB max block hard limit was placed BY DESIGN. The point of BTC is the universal ledger and the possibility for everyone to run a full node. It's meant to be a safe and decentralized way to store and transfer value (among other things), not to be a micro payment network competing with Visa or PayPal.

99% of BTC economy is driven by investors and speculators, what makes you think that it has to change at some point? You don't buy groceries with gold neither.

Are you calling the whole of Kenya a retard? they use it for day to day shopping for groceries.

I mean maybe it would cause more problems though if it was all fully mainstream

The whole Kenya is not using Bitcoin to buy groceries. Not a single city in Kenya is using Bitcoin to buy groceries. The current block soft-limit is 250kb. If a single city of Kenya was using Bitcoin to buy groceries, the 1MB hard-limit wouln't even be enough.

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