Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 32055.

oakpacific

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Quote from: rpietila on November 13, 2013, 01:21:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Odrec on November 13, 2013, 12:21:16 AM

Could it be that the Bitcoin popularity arrived at a bad time? I mean this year the price surged and many people became aware of Bitcoin but looking at the infraestructure that surrounds Bitcoin you can see that it is still in its infancy so I imagine many people who got interested in it at first also got dissapointed when they found all the trouble trading with Bitcoins entails, all the technical stuff surrounding it and the kind of shadyness of many of the services surrounding the virtual coin. For example the noobishness of some of the big exchanges. I can't help but feel that the hype was somehow kind of wasted because of all these problems. Maybe later when the infraestructure is more mature people will adopt it faster and it will become a much bigger phenomenon. What do you think?

This is why the exchange rate is still quite low.

Bitcoin is a marathon, not a sprint.

Yeah. If we did not have the undeveloped infrastructure, people could just easily buy bitcoins, and the price would rise really fast and be already much higher. You can't have it both ways.

Infrastructure......what a fancy name for hobnobbing with dinosaur banks....

rpietila

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Odrec on November 13, 2013, 12:21:16 AM

Could it be that the Bitcoin popularity arrived at a bad time? I mean this year the price surged and many people became aware of Bitcoin but looking at the infraestructure that surrounds Bitcoin you can see that it is still in its infancy so I imagine many people who got interested in it at first also got dissapointed when they found all the trouble trading with Bitcoins entails, all the technical stuff surrounding it and the kind of shadyness of many of the services surrounding the virtual coin. For example the noobishness of some of the big exchanges. I can't help but feel that the hype was somehow kind of wasted because of all these problems. Maybe later when the infraestructure is more mature people will adopt it faster and it will become a much bigger phenomenon. What do you think?

This is why the exchange rate is still quite low.

Bitcoin is a marathon, not a sprint.

Yeah. If we did not have the undeveloped infrastructure, people could just easily buy bitcoins, and the price would rise really fast and be already much higher. You can't have it both ways.

Richy_T

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Quote from: kehtolo on November 12, 2013, 10:44:57 AM

What if two agents on different sides of the world set their price in btc, and worked in btc. No waiting. No exchange fees, No credit card or banking fees.
What little fluctuation occured, would be offset by the gains of almost zero fees (above).

Volatility could possibly be addressed in the way that it is in other areas with a "futures" market. I'm not sure exactly what form that would take since BTC /is/ the currency in this case but I'm sure it could be done.

ChartBuddy

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scarsbergholden

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Quote from: Odrec on November 13, 2013, 12:21:16 AM

Could it be that the Bitcoin popularity arrived at a bad time? I mean this year the price surged and many people became aware of Bitcoin but looking at the infraestructure that surrounds Bitcoin you can see that it is still in its infancy so I imagine many people who got interested in it at first also got dissapointed when they found all the trouble trading with Bitcoins entails, all the technical stuff surrounding it and the kind of shadyness of many of the services surrounding the virtual coin. For example the noobishness of some of the big exchanges. I can't help but feel that the hype was somehow kind of wasted because of all these problems. Maybe later when the infraestructure is more mature people will adopt it faster and it will become a much bigger phenomenon. What do you think?

yeah thats part of the reason why this will be such a big crash, but we might hit four digits first Grin

Odrec

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Could it be that the Bitcoin popularity arrived at a bad time? I mean this year the price surged and many people became aware of Bitcoin but looking at the infraestructure that surrounds Bitcoin you can see that it is still in its infancy so I imagine many people who got interested in it at first also got dissapointed when they found all the trouble trading with Bitcoins entails, all the technical stuff surrounding it and the kind of shadyness of many of the services surrounding the virtual coin. For example the noobishness of some of the big exchanges. I can't help but feel that the hype was somehow kind of wasted because of all these problems. Maybe later when the infraestructure is more mature people will adopt it faster and it will become a much bigger phenomenon. What do you think?

molecular

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Quote from: NamelessOne on November 12, 2013, 11:33:24 PM

We appear to be forming a good old Bitcoin triangle, could take another day to start really seeing it. Could bounce off the bottom line again anywhere from 335 to 350 depending on when it hits that zone. Then perhaps... to the moon. Grin

I don't see it (EDIT: the triangle).

ChartBuddy

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NamelessOne

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We appear to be forming a good old Bitcoin triangle, could take another day to start really seeing it. Could bounce off the bottom line again anywhere from 335 to 350 depending on when it hits that zone. Then perhaps... to the moon. Grin

strawbs

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[I just posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion Forum but I usually hangout here, so forgive me for posting it again here]

After seeing the tragedy unfolding in the Philippines over the last couple of days, I felt the need to donate to a disaster relief charity here in UK (http://www.dec.org.uk/appeals/philippines-typhoon-appeal).

I was pleasantly surprised that the charity accepts donations via PayPal, which led me to send an email to them to ask whether they had considered accepting BTC too. It then struck me that if a charity were to receive lots of similar requests, they could begin to consider it as a means of receiving donations. After all, charities are pretty hard up these days and are always looking for innovative ways of raising money. BTC seems absolutely perfect for charitable giving/receiving, especially across international borders: no transaction fees = more money straight to the charity.

Then, with my speculative hat on Tongue

I figured that if a big name charity were to begin to accept BTC it could generate lots of positive publicity ("Oxfam accepts Bitcoin", etc).

Let us all bombard household name charities with requests for them to accept BTC (obviously, you must be willing to donate something too!).

ChartBuddy

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Mashrock

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Quote from: mb300sd on November 12, 2013, 10:05:36 PM

I read somewhere gox just opened a new bank account in japan. Shouldn't it be alot easier for the japanese to get cny or the chinese to get jpy? Just hop a plane back and forth, can't be too expensive.

China and Japan are playing war games

TERA

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That was very frustrating. I read the chart on gox perfectly and shorted right before a $25 drop on gox. Bit stamp moves $3 and I barely make anything on the trade before having to panic buy back. I should have traded on btce.

Voodah

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Quote from: SheHadMANHands on November 12, 2013, 09:50:49 PM

Quote from: Voodah on November 12, 2013, 09:45:24 PM

Quote from: jojo69 on November 12, 2013, 09:39:41 PM

the difference in price IS the cost of working the arb at this time, or very close to it, has to be

This.

Arbitrage is being done across ALL exchanges. The differences in prices are accounted for by the differences in deposit, withdrawal and trading fees, plus all fiat moving fees involved.

Then they aren't very efficient.

I think you are grossly underestimating the big players involved by now in BTC, and how easy it is for anyone with big money to have multi-national presence.

FFS I live in a 3rd world country and I can honestly tell you the amount of small and medium businesses here that operate with all three of a national, a US and a EU or Chinese bank account is huge. And they are simple businesses, not big money whales. It is true though, that arbitraging is the name of the game over here, with our devaluating currencies and black markets. But truth be told, it is nowhere near impossible.

mb300sd

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Drunk Posts

I read somewhere gox just opened a new bank account in japan. Shouldn't it be alot easier for the japanese to get cny or the chinese to get jpy? Just hop a plane back and forth, can't be too expensive.

ChartBuddy

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SheHadMANHands

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Quote from: Voodah on November 12, 2013, 09:45:24 PM

Quote from: jojo69 on November 12, 2013, 09:39:41 PM

the difference in price IS the cost of working the arb at this time, or very close to it, has to be

This.

Arbitrage is being done across ALL exchanges. The differences in prices are accounted for by the differences in deposit, withdrawal and trading fees, plus all fiat moving fees involved.

Then they aren't very efficient.

bnjmnkent

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Quote from: SheHadMANHands on November 12, 2013, 09:18:51 PM

Quote from: hlynur on November 12, 2013, 09:15:58 PM

Quote from: SheHadMANHands on November 12, 2013, 09:03:09 PM

Quote from: Xer0 on November 12, 2013, 08:59:54 PM

Quote from: SheHadMANHands on November 12, 2013, 08:49:59 PM

In the meanwhile..

Btcchina at almost $400, compared to Stamp at $365. And still apparently no one has figured out the arbitrage.

you need a chinese bank account to withdraw your fiat, but you need to visit china to get a bank account

thats the problem Grin

I'm not implying most people could do it. But surely someone could do it, and would be doing it, you'd think.

lol

*checking chinese subforum*
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-a-chinese-partner-to-arbitrage-with-329534

Quote from: keatonatron on November 10, 2013, 12:02:46 AM

Remember how BTC-E has always had low prices? There's a reason for that: hard to get money in.

And you know how now BTCCHINA has really high prices? There's a reason for that, too: hard to get money out.

If it was easy to do, people would already be doing it and we wouldn't see as large a gap as we do. China is a Communist country, and they have a strong hold on their currency. Just doing some quick Googling, Chinese residents can only send $50,000 per year overseas.

So, let's say you put up $45,000 to buy 150 coins. Send them to China, sell for $340 each, split the $6,000 profit with your Chinese partner, and have them wire back $48,000 (while also possibly paying taxes and bank fees, etc).

Oh, and don't forget to add in your trip to China Cheesy

So you might make $3,000 for the year. You could exceed the limit by having your Chinese contact's friends and relatives send you transfers in their names, but it seems like that would require even more trust. And if the price of bitcoins goes way up and the price difference stays the same, you'll hit your limit earlier and make less profit.

It's a nice idea in theory, but I don't think it will pan out as well as it looks. Please let us know if you do try it, though!

Sure, but still at some point it must become profitable for someone.. If btcchina was at $1m/bitcoin and Btc-e was at $100/bitcoin, someone wouldn't take advantage?

Cmon homeboy

Maybe traders assume there is soon a chinese SR-like takedown to come? This risk is therefore reflected in the price difference.
Is this called efficient market hypothesis - dunno?

Voodah

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Quote from: jojo69 on November 12, 2013, 09:39:41 PM

the difference in price IS the cost of working the arb at this time, or very close to it, has to be

This.

Arbitrage is being done across ALL exchanges. The differences in prices are accounted for by the differences in deposit, withdrawal and trading fees, plus all fiat moving fees involved.

BitThink

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Quote from: Vycid on November 12, 2013, 09:19:23 PM

Quote from: hlynur on November 12, 2013, 09:15:58 PM

*checking chinese subforum*
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/looking-for-a-chinese-partner-to-arbitrage-with-329534

Quote from: keatonatron on November 10, 2013, 12:02:46 AM

Remember how BTC-E has always had low prices? There's a reason for that: hard to get money in.

And you know how now BTCCHINA has really high prices? There's a reason for that, too: hard to get money out.

If it was easy to do, people would already be doing it and we wouldn't see as large a gap as we do. China is a Communist country, and they have a strong hold on their currency. Just doing some quick Googling, Chinese residents can only send $50,000 per year overseas.

So, let's say you put up $45,000 to buy 150 coins. Send them to China, sell for $340 each, split the $6,000 profit with your Chinese partner, and have them wire back $48,000 (while also possibly paying taxes and bank fees, etc).

Oh, and don't forget to add in your trip to China Cheesy

So you might make $3,000 for the year. You could exceed the limit by having your Chinese contact's friends and relatives send you transfers in their names, but it seems like that would require even more trust. And if the price of bitcoins goes way up and the price difference stays the same, you'll hit your limit earlier and make less profit.

It's a nice idea in theory, but I don't think it will pan out as well as it looks. Please let us know if you do try it, though!

But I don't understand why CHINESE people don't do this. You don't need an American partner or a trip to America to open a USD-denominated bank account.

Pretty much every Chinese Bitcoiner should be cashing in on their 50k right now...

The price difference is around 10%, and the internet wire fee and exchange rate loss (RMB -> USD -> RMB) can be more than 5%. Then after all the trouble, you can only get $2500 for a year. Those guys who will spend $50k on bitcoin can easy make that amount in couple of days by just staying in BTCChina (considering the 0 trading fee and high volatility).

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