Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 8136.

JayJuanGee

legendary

Activity: 3948

Merit: 11416

Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: Review Master on March 13, 2020, 04:53:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 13, 2020, 02:41:06 AM

Sure, you are correct, Review Master, but miners can work at a loss for extended periods and also they will self-adjust their behavior and difficulty will adjust too... so miner costs and behavior will also adjust to the price.. to some degree..

Thanks for your supportive reply. But it's time to think about the sutiuation after the bitcoin halving. Before halving, it's sure that miner will definitely self-adjust. What will happend in the next , the cost of mining of one bitcoin will be double than now after bitcoin halving events and if the correction still going on & make a new bottom less than $3K . Than definitely , everyone will be worry about this. Also china has the most mining power of bitcoin and COVID-19 virus affect the whole economy as well as every country is lossing the connection to others. So it might be the upcoming worst thing in bitcoin history. So, pray for the affected person of covid-19 virus and hope that the nightmare of new bottom less than $3K never comes out.

At the end , i just want to thank all of those who are positive in this current situation and hodl their precious.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 13, 2020, 02:41:06 AM

of course there is debate about whether miners follow BTC price or BTC price follows miner costs

yeah, i'm agree with this opinion. Cheesy

I don't think that it matters if we are talking about before the halvening or after the halvening, individual miners are still making the same kinds of game theory calculations, and we have already seen two halvenings that largely resulted in ongoing increases in hashrate.

Sure there are proclamations of doom and gloom and even mining death spirals, but in the end, a lot of those doom and gloom assertions are just FUD spreading nonsense - and surprisingly that bitcoin continues to incentivize miners to direct their mining towards bitcoin, and if you either want to bet against bitcoin based on nonsense, or attempt to imply doom and gloom, then that is your choice.. it is just not logical unless you are merely pumping some nonsense narrative.

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1610

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 09:28:34 PM

Again, USD changes functionally while BTC does not. The latter is 100% predictable and reliable, the former is up to the whims of the printing press. What was 1 USD last week is no longer 1 USD today. And unlike with BTC that is not due to 'relative value' to other goods based on supply and demand.

Nobody would've been able to almost eradicate entire nations if BTC was the currency of choice, because the functionality is consistent and constant over time. Meanwhile with central banks and fiat currencies all it takes is some good old hyperinflation or complete loss of trust which turns fiat from money into useless paper.

The only way you can accurately argue $1 = $1 is if you refer to the paper and its specific print. As money this is untrue.

Yes, I do agree with your comparison between BTC and USD. That's why I do like BTC.

But still...

1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here) = 1 USD (with its inherent shitty features, like unpredictable emission rate, risk of being turned into completely useless paper and whatever you want to add here)

It's just an equal sign with both *IDENTICAL* values at each side of the equal sign. That shouldn't be debatable.

Like "cmqñljer=cmqñljer" where I don't know what "cmqñljer" really is, nor its characteristics, nor I do really care... but I can safely say that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer.

But... If I wanted to really explain its advantages I would focus on them instead of just saying that 1cmqñljer = 1 cmqñljer which I don't think is a very good argument to convince anyone. And the same applies to 1BTC = 1BTC.

Anyways, people will keep repeating it at each and every dump as some sort of miraculous Vodoo. I know. I will just have to live with it as I have done all this years

BTCMILLIONAIRE

hero member

Activity: 1358

Merit: 834

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 09:16:58 PM

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 08:35:10 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:57:04 PM

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 07:47:50 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD =/= 1 USD due to money printing.

Wrong. You are talking about relative value here. If so, then 1BTC != 1BTC too.

And that not even considering forks and some other shit........

Relative value comes from supply and demand. Central banks are not just devaluing currency with the printing press, they are functionally changing and corroding it.

It's as if they had the power to make your computer worse just by printing some more, which is obviously not the case for computers. Yes, the relative value of computers changes if you shit out a lot of them, due to basic supply and demand.

They do however retain the same absolute functionality no matter how many there are.

This is not the case with fiat currency. If you print too much of it fiat loses all of its functionality as money and this happens on a gradient, e.g. the more you print the more useless your currency becomes.

If you create an infinite amount of computers the only thing that will happen is that everybody will be able to have a pretty nice tool.

Some of those points are strictly true and some are arguable. Anyways, no matter how many differences you can enumerate between USD and BTC... those are all inherent characteristics of each USD and BTC. And considering all those differential characteristics still 1 USD = 1 USD and 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Unless you are comparing 1 USD that is not really a USD (with its inherent government controlled inflation) and a different USD (like, I donno, one that is completely different?). But that would the same than comparing one Bitcoin (BTC) to one Bitcoin (Bcash lol). They are different things, so the equal thing is not really valid even if some people might try to argue they are.

Anyways none of this really matter...

As a maths guy, can you say 1BTC = 1BTC and, at the same time and for similar reasons, say that 1 USD != 1 USD?

And... even if you can (wtf?) do you really think that is a good moto to use to show the differential advantages of BTC? I think it is a completely ridiculous one. Btw, 1BSV = 1BSV too.

Again, USD changes functionally while BTC does not. The latter is 100% predictable and reliable, the former is up to the whims of the printing press. What was 1 USD last week is no longer 1 USD today. And unlike with BTC that is not due to 'relative value' to other goods based on supply and demand.

Nobody would've been able to almost eradicate entire nations if BTC was the currency of choice, because the functionality is consistent and constant over time. Meanwhile with central banks and fiat currencies all it takes is some good old hyperinflation or complete loss of trust which turns fiat from money into useless paper.

The only way you can accurately argue $1 = $1 is if you refer to the paper and its specific print. As money this is untrue.

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1610

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 08:35:10 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:57:04 PM

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 07:47:50 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD =/= 1 USD due to money printing.

Wrong. You are talking about relative value here. If so, then 1BTC != 1BTC too.

And that not even considering forks and some other shit........

Relative value comes from supply and demand. Central banks are not just devaluing currency with the printing press, they are functionally changing and corroding it.

It's as if they had the power to make your computer worse just by printing some more, which is obviously not the case for computers. Yes, the relative value of computers changes if you shit out a lot of them, due to basic supply and demand.

They do however retain the same absolute functionality no matter how many there are.

This is not the case with fiat currency. If you print too much of it fiat loses all of its functionality as money and this happens on a gradient, e.g. the more you print the more useless your currency becomes.

If you create an infinite amount of computers the only thing that will happen is that everybody will be able to have a pretty nice tool.

Some of those points are strictly true and some are arguable. Anyways, no matter how many differences you can enumerate between USD and BTC... those are all inherent characteristics of each USD and BTC. And considering all those differential characteristics still 1 USD = 1 USD and 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Unless you are comparing 1 USD that is not really a USD (with its inherent government controlled inflation) and a different USD (like, I donno, one that is completely different?). But that would the same than comparing one Bitcoin (BTC) to one Bitcoin (Bcash lol). They are different things, so the equal thing is not really valid even if some people might try to argue they are.

Anyways none of this really matter...

As a maths guy, can you say 1BTC = 1BTC and, at the same time and for similar reasons, say that 1 USD != 1 USD?

And... even if you can (wtf?) do you really think that is a good moto to use to show the differential advantages of BTC? I think it is a completely ridiculous one. Btw, 1BSV = 1BSV too.

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3990

Merit: 4597

Quote from: smartcomet on March 13, 2020, 08:54:32 PM

Holding is so f**k hard.

don't want to scared WOers, just an alert.

https://twitter.com/Austen/status/1238614012205494277

Quote

Today’s economic crisis vs 2008.

Much faster, nowhere near as severe yet.

Before today's 10% rise (aka yesterday) I was thinking that we would decline 50% (SP500 at 1696) in the first wave (a month or so), then claw back 61.8 % of that decline in 3-4 mo (to 2743). After that, hopefully, flat. Now, I am not so sure what would happen. Decided to not do any moves for now.
Curiously, TSLA did not join the fray today. Perhaps, whichever whale or whales was/were long that stock he/they finally sold it and TSLA is "free" to go down.

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: xhomerx10 on March 13, 2020, 05:26:39 PM

I was just trying to be funny. I fully understand why people would rather make ~~money~~ Bitcoin than wear a silly hat.

No, nothing silly here, it's a great hat, I'm the one who wanted it, I asked you to do it for me and I like it. I just didn't take it for a short time. Recently, I had huge losses when trading and when bitcoin went down, I thought I should take some advertising money in my free time here, to offset Cheesy

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 05:48:20 PM

I felt so dirty when I had to, feel so relieved now!

Just some campaigns let you be free with avatars, I haven't had the chance to join a campaign like you yet Roll Eyes

Anyway, don't talk about campaigns here, I just want to say that I want to wear my hat if I can Roll Eyes

Guys, disease outbreak (Corona virus) is happening in most countries, please be careful of your health. Fortunately, I am working in Vietnam, only a few cases up to now, still safe to work.

d_eddie

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3038

Quote from: jbreher on March 13, 2020, 08:39:56 PM

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Maths iz hard.

Nope, I don't believe it.

5! = 120

DaRude

legendary

Activity: 2833

Merit: 1851

In order to dump coins one must have coins

Quote from: jbreher on March 13, 2020, 08:39:56 PM

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Maths iz hard.

Nope, I don't believe it.

It is 5! you better believe it

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3990

Merit: 4597

Quote from: Elwar on March 13, 2020, 08:52:17 PM

Consider the halving.

Some people always throw out the idea that if the miners start getting paid half of their reward then mining will end. Well, the scenario they pose is that enough miners stop mining that the few remaining miners cannot mine a block for weeks.

The miners are now getting half of the value they were just last week.

...and?

hash rate shows about 6% decline in 7-day average.

infofront

legendary

Activity: 2660

Merit: 2868

Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: jbreher on March 13, 2020, 08:39:56 PM

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Maths iz hard.

Nope, I don't believe it.

This is millennial math, where every answer is right as long as you can explain it. And everyone gets an 'A'.

smartcomet

full member

Activity: 242

Merit: 101

Holding is so f**k hard.

don't want to scared WOers, just an alert.

https://twitter.com/Austen/status/1238614012205494277

Quote

Today’s economic crisis vs 2008.

Much faster, nowhere near as severe yet.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Consider the halving.

Some people always throw out the idea that if the miners start getting paid half of their reward then mining will end. Well, the scenario they pose is that enough miners stop mining that the few remaining miners cannot mine a block for weeks.

The miners are now getting half of the value they were just last week.

jbreher

legendary

Activity: 3080

Merit: 1688

lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Maths iz hard.

Nope, I don't believe it.

BTCMILLIONAIRE

hero member

Activity: 1358

Merit: 834

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:57:04 PM

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 07:47:50 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD =/= 1 USD due to money printing.

Wrong. You are talking about relative value here. If so, then 1BTC != 1BTC too.

And that not even considering forks and some other shit........

Relative value comes from supply and demand. Central banks are not just devaluing currency with the printing press, they are functionally changing and corroding it.

It's as if they had the power to make your computer worse just by printing some more, which is obviously not the case for computers. Yes, the relative value of computers changes if you shit out a lot of them, due to basic supply and demand.

They do however retain the same absolute functionality no matter how many there are.

This is not the case with fiat currency. If you print too much of it fiat loses all of its functionality as money and this happens on a gradient, e.g. the more you print the more useless your currency becomes.

If you create an infinite amount of computers the only thing that will happen is that everybody will be able to have a pretty nice tool.

fillippone

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 17063

Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 08:19:05 PM

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:55:36 PM

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Slightly off topic:

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Source:

*SPOILER ALERT*
https://twitter.com/3j0hn/status/913447235534315520

It is 120 for me
<...>

Correct!

jojo69

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 4775

diamond-handed zealot

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:55:36 PM

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Slightly off topic:

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Source:

*SPOILER ALERT*
https://twitter.com/3j0hn/status/913447235534315520

we are fucking doomed

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1610

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 08:07:00 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:55:36 PM

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Slightly off topic:

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Source:

*SPOILER ALERT*
https://twitter.com/3j0hn/status/913447235534315520

It is 120 for me but maybe they changed the conventions about the order of the operations or it is different depending on the country or it is using a different base?

But yeah, I get your point... even an equal sign (as in 1BTC=1BTC) might mean whatever someone wants it to mean... even if according to their very own "rules".

fillippone

legendary

Activity: 2380

Merit: 17063

Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 07:55:36 PM

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Slightly off topic:

Quote

A math meme that is funny rather than stupid:
Solve carefully!
230 - 220 x 0.5 =

You probably won't believe it, but the answer is 5!

Source:

*SPOILER ALERT*
https://twitter.com/3j0hn/status/913447235534315520

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1610

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: BTCMILLIONAIRE on March 13, 2020, 07:47:50 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD =/= 1 USD due to money printing.

Wrong. You are talking about relative value here. If so, then 1BTC != 1BTC too.

And that not even considering forks and some other shit........

bitserve

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1610

Self made HODLER ✓

Quote from: fillippone on March 13, 2020, 07:42:16 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 13, 2020, 06:32:06 PM

1 BTC being still equal to 1 BTC? I can give two shits about that.

Really I never understood what's the point of repeating that all the time.

Btw, 1 USD = 1 USD. So what?

1 USD= 1USD
sure.
Do you know the meme of the emptying cart, this well explain that even if 1 USD has always been equal to 1 USD, the true value (something similar to purchasing power) has been going down since inception (or 1971 at least).

So once again,
saying 1BTC=1BTC you are implying your numera ire, your basic unit of account, is the BTC, not the dollar.

Your numeraire, your store of wealth, is the BTC, not the USD.
You are not investing USD in BTC (and price is going up).
You are investing BTC in USD (and price is going down, hence, don't hold in USD more than you are willing to lose).

When you increase your Bitcoin account you are not buying BTC! You are selling USD!

This is, to me, the true meaning of this sentence.

I do understand what they think they mean... it is just that it is nonsense.

You now say 1 USD = 1 USD (because that's not arguable) but also say, as if it was a differential advantage of BTC, that the "true value" of USD has been going down. Great... because that's exactly what I mean when also BTC "true" value has come down... as in past days dump. In both cases, it doesn't mean anything if 1USD=1USD or 1BTC=1BTC. Also, something that obvious (it's a fucking equal not even a function) doesn't need to be repeated as if it were gonna change anytime soon. It won't. I know 1BTC will always be 1BTC.... no matter what that implies.

Also, when I do increase my BTC count 1BTC=1BTC... but look, when i do sell my BTC... 1 BTC still is equal to 1BTC! Wow! Magic!

The supermarket cart, OTOH, is a *GREAT* example/moto to use. 1BTC=1BTC is lame.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. I will never think it is a good slogan/moto to use when talking about BTC... much less during a dump. It sounds like the typical loser statement to me. As in... "the important thing is to participate, not to win"... Yeah, right.

Anyways... wake me up when 1BTC != 1BTC. That will be really interesting.

Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 8136. (Read 26712678 times)