Wall street traders and bankers are bitcoin's enemies.

timerland

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Quote

As a means of maintaining value, in the present bitcoin has been defeated.

Not really. What we're seeing right now is short term volatility, and nothing other than that.

In the long run, I think that bitcoin would still be a much better store of value than something like fiat, which has proven that it would drop in value imminently, and consistently. I'd much rather store my wealth in something independent like BTC than a government issued and controlled fiat currency.

These institutions that you talk of are actually becoming interested in crypto on a massive scale. I don't think that they are the ones that are pushing prices down at all. It's just a normal phase in the bitcoin's price cycles, which iterate every few years. Futures could be the source of some manipulation, but it would be hard to see how they can be stopped.

Veeggaa

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Based on my own experience, In cryptocurrency, futures contracts trading sounds a lot like the application of the Invisible Hand of the Marketplace as espoused by the rumored Mafia bookkeeper/economist. So just keep the good work on these.

ylnar123

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Quote from: soy39 on July 11, 2018, 12:44:15 PM

Wall street and bankers are bitcoin's enemies.

As a means of maintaining value, in the present bitcoin has been defeated. On 12/17/17 btc=$19379 and today 7/11/18 btc=$6345. A drop of $13034 or $501/week. I bailed when I looked at the slope and the previous 2 weeks saw 5.05%/week drop. Right now the the $501/week average amounts to 2.57%/week.

One would be an idiot to leave money as bitcoin while it's losing value at 2.57%/week.

Bitcoin's enemies did this. Wall street brokers and bankers used media to boost the value of bitcoin approaching 12/17/2017, when trading in bitcoin futures took effect, then casting shade driving bitcoin down, classic pump an dump.

I tried buying a few stocks years ago when my bank allowed trading. I figured oh, no traders to deal with, I was wrong. Buying a few stock saw unexpected fees that made the whole exercise a bust. This was years before bitcoin. And moving money, the international fees were horrible. That's why Wall Street brokers and bankers couldn't allow bitcoin to stabilize and rise in value. They don't want our money in btc. As fiat currencies increasingly continue to be watered down while money is pumped to the top 1%, the fixed quantity of bitcoin should only allow it to win. At least that was the case until bitcoin futures trading took effect.

Will eliminating bitcoin futures trading fix it? Big deposits and withdrawals will still work to pump money out even without bad press to drive value down. Still, stopping futures trading will kill the incentive for some bad press.

Early on bitcoin was the place to be when there was trouble. That sure changed. Right now with trade wars a reality one would think money would be heading to bitcoin in a big way. Why isn't it? Who's ox was getting gored that that changed?

soy39

(the 39 unrelated to red lining implications - though that 17/17 does bring a pair of grim reapers to mind)

I don't think Bitcoin has enemies. Banaks and Wall Street traders are doing what they have to do but Bitcoin is just a currency where traders used to purchase and to sell goods in the blockchain. In other words, Bitcoin is used by traders and cryptobanks to their business in the blockchain that traditional banks cannot sustain.

BCSHonda

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Quote from: BTC-BTC-BTC on July 13, 2018, 11:02:36 AM

There is no enemies for Bitcoin. Once the wall street, banks, and governments figured out how to monetize with it. There is no way to stop bitcoin but just slowing it down.

Yes, bitcoin has no enemies but greedy ones, wanting to acquire them. The high value and profit that bitcoin makes to the investor community is tremendous. From there intermediaries such as banks, taxes, government, etc.
They all want more commissions from these electronic money transactions. But it certainly will not do much because the sustainability of bitcoin is stable. Strong communities will decide everything.

soy39

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I expect the government will see a nice tax bump from hodl-ers having cashed out. So, the CFTC, an agency of the US government, must have been wearing a cheshire grin when approving bitcoin futures contracts trading.

soy39

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Quote from: shulio on July 13, 2018, 04:22:07 PM

Futures contracts are the cause of this bull run. And until the volume of the crypto market increases the future contract investors will command the market.

Would you say it's a bull market for bitcoin futures and a bear for bitcoin itself?

soy39

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Quote from: shulio on July 13, 2018, 04:22:07 PM

Futures contracts are the cause of this bull run. And until the volume of the crypto market increases the future contract investors will command the market.

And "Futures contracts give traders a way to bet on bitcoin prices and earn profits without buying the actual cryptocurrency." a businessinsider.com bullet point before futures launch. Another bullet point on that page "The Chicago Mercantile Exchange says it will launch its bitcoin futures contracts on December 18." So, they could beat bitcoin all to hell without ever buying any.

soy39

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Okay, so maybe the banks aren't afraid of bitcoin. I can recall around 1986 there were a great many complaints from Central and South American countries that their debts to the US were impossible to pay. I'd guessed how that came about and figured banks wanted to dump money to reduce availability so sold the governments on borrowing. Figured that the banks had too much money for some reason relating to the Arab oil embargo not all that many years before. That perhaps the higher petroleum prices saw the Arabs dumping money into US banks. I wondered because Mexico had built copper smelters along their northern border that were suddenly polluting north as far as Wyoming, causing acid rain that measurably changed the lakes causing defects in frogs as a for instance. Not an accident. But I was wrong as to how those Central and South American debts came about and only realized that after reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins. The countries were sold huge construction projects, dams, power plants, etc. That's what the money was spent on although the banks profited from the loans. Those are huge debts and I doubt Bitcoin's market cap compares. So, the invasion of the US by Central and South American refugees might have its roots in that debt. The social inequalities and violence that triggered that migration may partly be intentional as payback for that bank debt.

weblouartisan

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Lets Go Adab

Quote from: soy39 on July 11, 2018, 12:44:15 PM

Wall street and bankers are bitcoin's enemies.

As a means of maintaining value, in the present bitcoin has been defeated. On 12/17/17 btc=$19379 and today 7/11/18 btc=$6345. A drop of $13034 or $501/week. I bailed when I looked at the slope and the previous 2 weeks saw 5.05%/week drop. Right now the the $501/week average amounts to 2.57%/week.

One would be an idiot to leave money as bitcoin while it's losing value at 2.57%/week.

Bitcoin's enemies did this. Wall street brokers and bankers used media to boost the value of bitcoin approaching 12/17/2017, when trading in bitcoin futures took effect, then casting shade driving bitcoin down, classic pump an dump.

I tried buying a few stocks years ago when my bank allowed trading. I figured oh, no traders to deal with, I was wrong. Buying a few stock saw unexpected fees that made the whole exercise a bust. This was years before bitcoin. And moving money, the international fees were horrible. That's why Wall Street brokers and bankers couldn't allow bitcoin to stabilize and rise in value. They don't want our money in btc. As fiat currencies increasingly continue to be watered down while money is pumped to the top 1%, the fixed quantity of bitcoin should only allow it to win. At least that was the case until bitcoin futures trading took effect.

Will eliminating bitcoin futures trading fix it? Big deposits and withdrawals will still work to pump money out even without bad press to drive value down. Still, stopping futures trading will kill the incentive for some bad press.

Early on bitcoin was the place to be when there was trouble. That sure changed. Right now with trade wars a reality one would think money would be heading to bitcoin in a big way. Why isn't it? Who's ox was getting gored that that changed?

soy39

(the 39 unrelated to red lining implications - though that 17/17 does bring a pair of grim reapers to mind)

Banks are afraid of bitcoins because if most of the investors will focus on cryptocurrency then their business might go down since there will be less people who are going to place money on the banks.

xbl1008

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In the Trading world as long as you profit from the trade how different its channels it would be the same but when if the two counter effect its other to lose its value then a conflict may arise but I think this will not happen because traders who have been in the market before crypto have already established their skills they have anticipated some of the things that may happen and they can take advantage of the young age of crypto to benefit.

shulio

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Futures contracts are the cause of this bull run. And until the volume of the crypto market increases the future contract investors will command the market.

soy39

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Okay, one took one's money out of bitcoin while it was dropping steadily with plans to buy when one's best guess is it won't go lower or has already started to rise. That's the thing. With the swings the value takes it's apparent big money can do what it pleases to the value pretty much. One guesses wrong, buys and it plummets because they can do that. So, the power cost of mining in low-energy-cost-countries is not an unreasonable low ball guess. Above that they have a cushion to work with to transfer wealth to themselves. But for that reason, that it's obvious, it probably won't go that low.

The guys who have always liked to make money and ready to fight about it ask what do ya need and can't do without. Housing, winter heating oil, urban garbage collection. Not the kind of financial opportunities one would make a short term investment in while waiting for a solid change in bitcoin value.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Oh, how I love the clairvoyants, the preachers and the "I told you" so trolls.
First of all, no asset investor or trader is its enemy. That person had to buy first to be able to sell. You have a wrong understanding of trading.
Destroying it would mean lack of opportunities and traders live on those opportunities. Their main goal is prediction the price move or, even better, influence the people to play along by creating fake pumps and dumps, spread FUD and so on. If they are shorting they'd like everyone to short as well, if they are longing, the would like us to long too.
After a huge pump it's natural that shorting can be more successful, but when the price stabilizes they will switch to longs again, because that's what is profitable.

As for the usual "you should have sold" nobody knew what will happen. We had bans and hacks along the way that brought the price to much lower levels than expected. I'm not a trader anymore, so I'm not selling as long as the fundamental analysis doesn't tell me to. Especially not below 10k USD.

Altcoins enthusiast

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Bitcoin survival depends on us the cryptocurrencies enthusiasts! From beginning bitcoin has this enemy that is the bankers. The bankers see bitcoin as enemy because it is going to takes food from they mouth in future. If the future trade was not introduce in November we would not have see the price falling in this way.

soy39

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Quote from: soy39 on July 13, 2018, 10:39:14 AM

Quote from: Adhichan on July 13, 2018, 10:32:36 AM

Quote from: altcoin4u on July 12, 2018, 12:50:07 PM

I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.

it is temporary money flow from stock market moved to cryptocurrency.they think right now in cryptocurrency market, especially bitcoin give them huge potential market if they buy it right now.

Of course, but when's the right time to buy? Looking at how low it can be allowed to go with mining costs as a major mitigating factor, that prediction of $2800 a month or so ago sounds about right to kill mining in the US and still allow mining in low energy cost countries for the dwindling number of bitcoins that will ever be mined. That's not to say they, those mining in low energy cost countries, are driving the value down but that their bitcoins can be used to counter the drive down by bad actors with malicious intent and an incriminating history

So, if power cost is a defining factor for the near future of the absolute lowest value Bitcoin might reach, what's to drive it up? And anti-US sentiment will allow the price to drop and bad actors will put the price down there for the cheap energy country miners. Maybe it will stabilize and rise with dollar inflation. But that's the value storage idea that appears to be getting killed so they'd counter that if they can. When mining reward halves again the price will rise but not double. That there are more living college graduates in the US than there will ever be Bitcoins means that every US college graduate can't each own one. That's the kind of thing that can take hold of the imagination and drive demand. So, the future is in question.

soy39

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Quote from: soy39 on July 11, 2018, 08:58:43 PM

So, I wonder how this state of affairs happened. Like in this country, did the approving authority that gave the go ahead to trade bitcoin futures ask anyone if we the bitcoin users minded? I understand bitcoin doesn't have a ruling authority but was the Bitcoin Foundation even consulted?

In 1972, when the IMM was created, was every country who's fiat currencies were then to become part of currency futures, consulted?

Futures trading is astoundingly tempting to manipulation of markets, currencies, equities.

When I took Economics nights at a local college in the mid-70's although the course covered the IMF and World Bank, no mention was made of the IMM. Futures trading was left out of the 917 page text although some mention of the Chicago Mercantile futures was made in class.

So, futures contracts trading sounds a lot like the application of the Invisible Hand of the Marketplace as espoused by the rumored Mafia bookkeeper/economist.

BTC-BTC-BTC

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www.neutroncoin.com

There is no enemies for Bitcoin. Once the wall street, banks, and governments figured out how to monetize with it. There is no way to stop bitcoin but just slowing it down.

laracastvue

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Quote from: altcoin4u on July 12, 2018, 12:50:07 PM

I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.

Stocks and cryptocurrency are different and if most of the stock traders before are now preferring to trade in cryptocurrency then the economy of stock market might fall in the future.

soy39

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Quote from: Adhichan on July 13, 2018, 10:32:36 AM

Quote from: altcoin4u on July 12, 2018, 12:50:07 PM

I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.

it is temporary money flow from stock market moved to cryptocurrency.they think right now in cryptocurrency market, especially bitcoin give them huge potential market if they buy it right now.

Of course, but when's the right time to buy? Looking at how low it can be allowed to go with mining costs as a major mitigating factor, that prediction of $2800 a month or so ago sounds about right to kill mining in the US and still allow mining in low energy cost countries for the dwindling number of bitcoins that will ever be mined. That's not to say they, those mining in low energy cost countries, are driving the value down but that their bitcoins can be used to counter the drive down by bad actors with malicious intent and an incriminating history

Adhichan

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Quote from: altcoin4u on July 12, 2018, 12:50:07 PM

I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.

it is temporary money flow from stock market moved to cryptocurrency.they think right now in cryptocurrency market, especially bitcoin give them huge potential market if they buy it right now.

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