I like Google and Musk. Early on I made a conscious decision to trust Google searches. I still do.
There's an article on today's Hacker News called Elon Musk vs. Short sellers. The author says he has nothing against short sellers, that people should be able to bet against a stock as well as for.
That said, under Profit and Beyond the author says: "The thing is though, I think when Elon Musk looks around, he realizes the greatest threat to his company is not the Mission E or Model 3 take rate or whatever. It is the massive amount of capital betting against him steered by bad actors with malicious intent and an incriminating history."
The same with Bitcoin.
Did I mention that early in my Bitcoin days I tried selling on a downtrend to buy when it started to rise. It was during an early pump and dump. I lost a couple of hundred dollars if I remember correctly and decided then to just hold. Really developed a low opinion of pump and dumpers with that my first experience with them.
I don't agree with the author's opinion that betting against a stock is okay.
But I'm not halfway through the article: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/elon-musk-vs-short-sellers.118431/
Topic: Wall street traders and bankers are bitcoin's enemies. - page 2. (Read 422 times)
In my humble opinion I can say that I doubt that even they are thinking about cryptocurrency market because it is not that big a stock market is yet, so I am not considering crypto currency trading as a threat for stock market, with his magnificance.
And how does that differ from buying Bit20 coins in bulk?
Institutions mostly aren't allowed to expose themselves to Bitcoin by actually buying the unregulated asset itself, which Bitcoin still is today. The second problem that pops up is custody -- institutions don't want to own the asset itself, and have no proper way to store it themselves in a secure but fully backed manner. They just love to buy a product that's actually backed by it. Let's pretend an institution buys 1 ETF share, what happens is that an exchange that works with CBOE (the platform the ETF will be listed on) will take care of the underlying asset and the storage process. It's more a tool for institutions rather than individuals. If it concerns individuals they are better off buying the asset itself.
And the reason this should worry us is that if something is a financial threat, buy it, own it, change it?
As a means of maintaining value, in the present bitcoin has been defeated. On 12/17/17 btc=$19379 and today 7/11/18 btc=$6345. A drop of $13034 or $501/week. I bailed when I looked at the slope and the previous 2 weeks saw 5.05%/week drop. Right now the the $501/week average amounts to 2.57%/week.
But compare the price today the price from past years. Even if you take the price exactly 1 year ago, which is not even a good buying point, you still have a gain from $2000 to $6400.
The problem with these kind of analysis is it compares ATH, which was a ridiculous pump, to the current price. While completely disregarding the bigger picture.
I think the point is that it could have been real. Somewhere that belief Bitcoin was a place to put money in bad times was killed. Maybe it was the MtGox theft. But at one time a real continued rise to great numbers could have been possible and some of us who had been around for the $100 -> $1000 rise believed it was happening. Those of us not stock/bond market analysts. That it was a deliberate pump to 12/17/17 then a really disheartening decline was intentional by those who knew of the tulip bust, that arguably from tulip futures. The bigger picture of financial analysts isn't visible to me but it didn't include Bitcoin remaining a 'store of value' of any consequence.
And how does that differ from buying Bit20 coins in bulk?
Institutions mostly aren't allowed to expose themselves to Bitcoin by actually buying the unregulated asset itself, which Bitcoin still is today. The second problem that pops up is custody -- institutions don't want to own the asset itself, and have no proper way to store it themselves in a secure but fully backed manner. They just love to buy a product that's actually backed by it. Let's pretend an institution buys 1 ETF share, what happens is that an exchange that works with CBOE (the platform the ETF will be listed on) will take care of the underlying asset and the storage process. It's more a tool for institutions rather than individuals. If it concerns individuals they are better off buying the asset itself.
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Anyone who bought at maybe around $10000 and didn't sell at the peak made a rookie mistake of joining in the hype. The consequence is that they have to wait longer than they would've expected, and that's completely acceptable.
Well, sorry for the loss that may cause on that, you can't jump in from the last year price compared recent price.Anyone who bought at maybe around $10000 and didn't sell at the peak made a rookie mistake of joining in the hype. The consequence is that they have to wait longer than they would've expected, and that's completely acceptable.
If you missed that you cant jump in into recent price from last year price because of time to time bitcoin will be growing up and it has a high volatile value that makes the price up and down.
Correct, don't sell if you have found that you have a loss besides just waiting for a months before bitcoin will bounce back in the market.
As a means of maintaining value, in the present bitcoin has been defeated. On 12/17/17 btc=$19379 and today 7/11/18 btc=$6345. A drop of $13034 or $501/week. I bailed when I looked at the slope and the previous 2 weeks saw 5.05%/week drop. Right now the the $501/week average amounts to 2.57%/week.
But compare the price today the price from past years. Even if you take the price exactly 1 year ago, which is not even a good buying point, you still have a gain from $2000 to $6400.
The problem with these kind of analysis is it compares ATH, which was a ridiculous pump, to the current price. While completely disregarding the bigger picture.
Anyone who bought at maybe around $10000 and didn't sell at the peak made a rookie mistake of joining in the hype. The consequence is that they have to wait longer than they would've expected, and that's completely acceptable.
Maybe and maybe not. They could be doing something to crash the price of Bitcoin. But the fact of the matter is that huge almost 20k USD spike is a fluke. If you follow the trend, it shouldn't increase that much. It should've been around only 10k USD and the 6k USD correction if fine. Besides, i think Bitcoin is strong enough to weather these kinds of enemies.
Lets not talk as if Wall Street traders only just got into cryptcurrencies. If they weren't in very quickly I'd be shocked. That to earlier posts in the thread.
You say it should've been around only 10k. I remember when Bitcoin when to $100 and speculation that it would hit $1k by year's end seemed outlandish.
That the great migration of wealth upward to the top 1% or 2% in our lifetimes has been so pervasive in every country of the world that the idea of Bitcoin with its absolute limited number of coins could very well have caused it to pass $20k, $50k, $100k - a fig to the powers that be.
I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.
Home is where the heart is. So traders into cryptocurrency will be prone to make money weakening Bitcoin. After all, their 401ks aren't seeing contributions from crypto.
Soon after futures contract trading was called out as causing the decline, the decline slowed and as voices were raised the non-big-jumps, ordinary trading, has leveled out.
...everyone was expecting them to bring big institutional capital to Bitcoin...
Personally I most remember the surge to Bitcoin when there were international difficulties and Bitcoin was touted as where to put one's money in troubled times. But that got killed somehow and I don't quite know how that happened or by whom.
So, I expected that ordinary citizens in countries where retirees are seeing entry level personnel starting wage at close to what the retirees made going out, currency devalued, those ordinary citizens would put their money where Bitcoin's absolute limited quantity works against inflation. And I expected that idea to spread and swell.
But regarding Bitcoin and Bitcoin Futures contracts and the effect of negative press for profit. Cryptocurrency in itself is impossible for some to accept or even fathom. So, bad press for the sake of profit would hit cryptocurrencies harder than say some utility futures, not that utility futures would expect bad press as some very difficult types control energy and the press.
If we look at financial tools that could actually bring in big money, then the Bitcoin backed Solidx ETF will be it. For every share purchase of $200,000 (which is the minimum entry point), $200,000 worth of Bitcoin will be taken out of circulation. This ETF is worth fomo'ing for, future markets aren't.
And how does that differ from buying Bit20 coins in bulk?
I think that's most obvious thing is that Wall Street Traders are worrying about their income that can be affected while many Traders will be transferred to cryptocurrency trading from stock market. And this will decrease the Demand on the stock market.
Soon after futures contract trading was called out as causing the decline, the decline slowed and as voices were raised the non-big-jumps, ordinary trading, has leveled out.
Buy the rumor sell the news, that clearly happened. Another thing is that everyone was expecting them to bring big institutional capital to Bitcoin, but many failed to understand that cash settled contracts don't bring actually capital to Bitcoin. It's nothing more than an empty side product for whoever wants to bet on Bitcoin's price. If we look at financial tools that could actually bring in big money, then the Bitcoin backed Solidx ETF will be it. For every share purchase of $200,000 (which is the minimum entry point), $200,000 worth of Bitcoin will be taken out of circulation. This ETF is worth fomo'ing for, future markets aren't.
Wall street traders will look into bitcoin as well, in this case bank is the only one enemy. All traders are the same, they want to gain profit, and Bitcoin provide bigger opportunity for it. Wall street traders can be Bitcoin investors in the future.
Yups only the bankers are considered as enemy in this case and not the wall street and besides wall traders sometimes gives good outlook in cryptocurrency specially bitcoins thats why i dont see and related issue to declare war on this high valued traders.and dont make this kind of speculation when theres really none happeningHow can you say that 'theres really none happening' in the face of the near constant decline since Black Sunday Dec. 17, 2017 when Bitcoin futures trading was started? Soon after futures contract trading was called out as causing the decline, the decline slowed and as voices were raised the non-big-jumps, ordinary trading, has leveled out.
Along with the fairly steady decline of Bitcoin value since that Black Sunday, Dec. 17, 2017, when Bitcoin futures trading commenced, has been sharp large volume increases and decreases. Those jumps also have an effect of triggering wins and losses in futures. So, a large enough house with enough Bitcoin to make the large jumps can decide how much to buy or sell for a period in the then coming days to maximize profit on futures. It's pumping money out. And it can do this even without using bad press to change expectations.
I think without the margin payouts this would become unprofitable to the house.
I think without the margin payouts this would become unprofitable to the house.
On the other hand, we've been stable, oscillating around $6000 for quite a while now. I don't get why people think jumping from $1000 to $20,000 as fast as bitcoin did would have been sustainable--that sort of rise is never permanent, and I think we should all count ourselves lucky that bitcoin didn't drop even more than it did, i.e., that it kept a lot of the gains it made on its way up to $20k.
If you remember the dot com stock craze of the 90s, most of those stocks went to ZERO, and many of the ones that did survive lost a significant amount of value. That's what happens when speculators get carried away with buying an asset and drive its price up into the stratosphere. Now, I'm not sure if there are any "enemies" here, much less that they're bankers or anyone on Wall Street. I'd argue that there were plenty of people worldwide who bought bitcoin in the hopes that they'd get filthy, stinking rich. They're responsible for where bitcoin is at now, too.
If you remember the dot com stock craze of the 90s, most of those stocks went to ZERO, and many of the ones that did survive lost a significant amount of value. That's what happens when speculators get carried away with buying an asset and drive its price up into the stratosphere. Now, I'm not sure if there are any "enemies" here, much less that they're bankers or anyone on Wall Street. I'd argue that there were plenty of people worldwide who bought bitcoin in the hopes that they'd get filthy, stinking rich. They're responsible for where bitcoin is at now, too.
I do not think so. It seems to me that in the case of bitcoin, each of the parties can make a profit: institutional investors (banks), traders, investors, etc.
There is also a third enemy. The government is actually the real enemy of BTC. The government's prohibition on trading and fighting BTC is the biggest harm to BTC.
Wall Street and banks are hostile to BTC because BTC has stolen their profits!
With the development of blockchain technology and the popularity of BTC, they can be friends with BTC when they can make profits on BTC in the future!
With the development of blockchain technology and the popularity of BTC, they can be friends with BTC when they can make profits on BTC in the future!
Certainly yes. Wall street and banks are the first and biggest enemies of Bitcoin because their business will shut down if Bitcoin accepted worldwide and the purpose of Wall street and banks to steal people's money in the form of charges and fees will be stopped since Bitcoin is a peer to peer platform where there is no intermediate person or institution is not required for any transactions.
So, with no real central authority to consult they just put futures trading in place. Brings to mind a large corporation that would insure some of its workers with life insurance and the corporation as the beneficiary. Say a worker would die at home, the corporation would collect the life insurance and the worker's family would get nothing from the life insurance policy. The practice was ruled illegal.
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