Wallet Compile Service - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

CHAOSiTEC

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Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 01:10:17 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 01:08:06 PM

Let me repeat what I wrote be before but hopefully in a more understandable way...

Some altcoin developers struggle to with having a build process for windows and Mac I offer a service to compile it so they can focus on other things if they do not want to use the time to build said environment

So there is no "vanilla" binary to check against, right?

No. But then again anybody is welcome to either compile and double check or hire someone else to compile so that they can double check.

Basically I offer a service.. they can decide to use it or not. I do not add anything to the source. And if it's uncompileable I will offer to fix the compile descriptors so they can build the files themselves.. or I can compile them. Either way they pay for my services. There is nothing suspect in what I do. Look around and you will find developers from one coin being hired by other coin either developers or bagholders to work on their coin.

This is just another service...

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 01:08:06 PM

Let me repeat what I wrote be before but hopefully in a more understandable way...

Some altcoin developers struggle to with having a build process for windows and Mac I offer a service to compile it so they can focus on other things if they do not want to use the time to build said environment

So there is no "vanilla" binary to check against, right?

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

Activity: 1358

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Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 01:04:10 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 01:01:16 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 01:00:17 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:54:33 PM

Altcoin need wallets too.. and it seems people have a hard time building a stable invironment to build their wallets so they seek outside help... often they want to pay in some coin... but I would rater be paid in btc.. quite simple

Is there an altcoin version of Gitian to "double check" your binary against? Do you actually build wallets in a controlled "deterministic" environment as the concept of Gitian demands (i.e. in a QEMU virtual machine with "faked times")?

Yes to both

Then I don't understand why bother to ask you if people can just download a precompiled binary given they are identical (which is what you basically claim)?

What's the catch?

Let me repeat what I wrote be before but hopefully in a more understandable way...

Some altcoin developers struggle to with having a build process for windows and Mac I offer a service to compile it so they can focus on other things if they do not want to use the time to build said environment

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 01:01:16 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 01:00:17 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:54:33 PM

Altcoin need wallets too.. and it seems people have a hard time building a stable invironment to build their wallets so they seek outside help... often they want to pay in some coin... but I would rater be paid in btc.. quite simple

Is there an altcoin version of Gitian to "double check" your binary against? Do you actually build wallets in a controlled "deterministic" environment as the concept of Gitian demands (i.e. in a QEMU virtual machine with "faked times")?

Yes to both

Then I don't understand why bother to ask you if people can just download a precompiled binary given they are identical (which is what you basically claim)? On the other hand, you could just download that binary and sell it as your "version" (which should necessarily be the same as the "vanilla" one since it was built "deterministically")?

What's the catch?

CHAOSiTEC

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Activity: 1358

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Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 01:00:17 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:54:33 PM

Altcoin need wallets too.. and it seems people have a hard time building a stable invironment to build their wallets so they seek outside help... often they want to pay in some coin... but I would rater be paid in btc.. quite simple

Is there an altcoin version of Gitian to "double check" your binary against? Do you actually build wallets in a controlled "deterministic" environment as the concept of Gitian demands (i.e. in a QEMU virtual machine with "faked times")?

Yes to both.

It's the same environment since most are build on bitcoin the process and files are 99% identical

If a build process cannot be done with the supplied files I will tweak them and give the correct files back so it will be repeatable and the files can be easily read for verification on what has been done/changed

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:54:33 PM

Altcoin need wallets too.. and it seems people have a hard time building a stable invironment to build their wallets so they seek outside help... often they want to pay in some coin... but I would rater be paid in btc.. quite simple

Is there an altcoin version of Gitian to "double check" your binary against? Do you actually build wallets in a controlled "deterministic" environment as the concept of Gitian requires (i.e. in a QEMU virtual machine with "faked times")?

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

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Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 12:46:08 PM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 12:11:07 PM

Further, I don't quite like words like "deterministic" and "reasonably sure" used in two adjacent sentences. It seems like someone is trying to make things look better than they really are...

Am I overly paranoid here?

Yes you are.

On another note... if you look at the bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptiors/gitian-win.yml or Linux.yml or osx.yml then you will notice the build process is for bitcoins bitcoin-click bitcoin-tx and bitcoin-qt

This is the whole build process to build ALLE files including installer files for windows

Then why do we need your service, I don't get it? If someone has already built everything in a "reasonably sure" way?

Altcoin need wallets too.. and it seems people have a hard time building a stable invironment to build their wallets so they seek outside help... often they want to pay in some coin... but I would rater be paid in btc.. quite simple

Edit: I hate my phones autocorrected just saw that it had changed bitcoind to bitcoins and bitcoin-cli to bitcoin-click

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 12:43:19 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 12:11:07 PM

Further, I don't quite like words like "deterministic" and "reasonably sure" used in two adjacent sentences. It seems like someone is trying to make things look better than they really are...

Am I overly paranoid here?

Yes you are.

On another note... if you look at the bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptiors/gitian-win.yml or Linux.yml or osx.yml then you will notice the build process is for bitcoins bitcoin-click bitcoin-tx and bitcoin-qt

This is the whole build process to build ALLE files including installer files for windows

Then why do we need your service, I don't get it? If someone has already built everything in a "reasonably sure" way?

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 12:11:07 PM

Further, I don't quite like words like "deterministic" and "reasonably sure" used in two adjacent sentences. It seems like someone is trying to make things look better than they really are...

Am I overly paranoid here?

Yes you are.

On another note... if you look at the bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptiors/gitian-win.yml or Linux.yml or osx.yml then you will notice the build process is for bitcoins bitcoin-click bitcoin-tx and bitcoin-qt

This is the whole build process to build ALLE files including installer files for windows

Bitcoin core is all of it backend plus frontend reasoning for calling it core was to ensure that this is the benchmark other wallet makers would have to follow.

deisik

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Further, I don't quite like words such as "deterministic" and "reasonably sure" used in two adjacent sentences. It seems like someone is trying to make things look better than they really are...

Am I overly paranoid here?

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 11:55:48 AM

Quote

Gitian is the deterministic build process that is used to build the Bitcoin Core executables. It provides a way to be reasonably sure that the executables are really built from the source on GitHub. It also makes sure that the same, tested dependencies are used and statically built into the executable.

Multiple developers build the source code by following a specific descriptor ("recipe"), cryptographically sign the result, and upload the resulting signature. These results are compared and only if they match, the build is accepted and uploaded to bitcoin.org.

Since you apparently do not read very well I have for your enjoyment pasted part of the bitcoin build process using gitian.

Bitcoin Core is not the same as Bitcoin wallet which is based on Qt framework (at least, the last time I checked), right? I assume that it uses these binaries as a backend, but what about the wallet itself? Isn't that what you offer precisely?

In other words, where is Gitian for Bitcoin wallet (if that was your point)?

CHAOSiTEC

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Quote

Gitian is the deterministic build process that is used to build the Bitcoin Core executables. It provides a way to be reasonably sure that the executables are really built from the source on GitHub. It also makes sure that the same, tested dependencies are used and statically built into the executable.

Multiple developers build the source code by following a specific descriptor ("recipe"), cryptographically sign the result, and upload the resulting signature. These results are compared and only if they match, the build is accepted and uploaded to bitcoin.org.

Since you apparently do not read very well I have for your enjoyment pasted part of the bitcoin build process using gitian.

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

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Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 11:28:32 AM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 11:17:50 AM

And I have said what needs to be said.. anyone can double check by comparing same compiler from someone else.. your argument about compilers producing different result based on where they run and not about which optimisations are used is still fud. Because compilations are and will always be reproduce able under same conditions for source, library and compiler ... and host architecture does nothing to change those facts...

Lol, it doesn't only depend on host architecture (welcome -O3), it actually depends on the compile-time environment, here and now, on the same machine. I understand you think that compiling is totally deterministic, but this is simply not the case. You are just flat-out wrong about that. I didn't want to raise this issue again but you obviously seem to be asking for more, lol. For example, optimization usually requires a lot of memory, and still more memory for higher optimisation methods. If memory allocation fails (e.g. due to a lot of other memory hungry processes), then the compiler may omit some optimizations, which results in a different binary that would be produced if all optimizations had been made...

Does this also pass as FUD? If not, what about the "verification" process you suggest to run and its results?

And again I point you to gitIan.. and the compile process that uses fake time...

deisik

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 11:17:50 AM

And I have said what needs to be said.. anyone can double check by comparing same compiler from someone else.. your argument about compilers producing different result based on where they run and not about which optimisations are used is still fud. Because compilations are and will always be reproduce able under same conditions for source, library and compiler ... and host architecture does nothing to change those facts...

Lol, it doesn't only depend on host architecture (welcome -O3), it actually depends on the compile-time environment, here and now, on the same machine. I understand you think that compiling is totally deterministic, but this is simply not the case. You are just flat-out wrong about that. I didn't want to raise this issue again but you obviously seem to be asking for more, lol. For example, optimization usually requires a lot of memory, and still more memory for higher optimisation methods. If memory allocation fails (e.g. due to a lot of other memory hungry processes), then the compiler may omit some optimizations, which results in a different binary that would be produced if all optimizations had been made...

Does this also pass as FUD? If not, what about the "verification" process of double check you suggest to run and its results?

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 11:02:34 AM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 10:27:08 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM

So I'm still thinking what are you doing in this thread, you should be posting in ALLE threads especially those involving escrow because.. you cannot trust the escrow either with your line of thinking...

I'm wondering if you really don't understand what people are risking using your service, or you are deliberately trying to make it look harmless?

So, anyone using this service be warned and aware of the risks it involves

It seems more to me that I have at some point stepped on your toes. Might have been an alt.. you, without knowing who I am, basically point a finger at me, and accuse me of wanting to steal people's coins. And why should people care what you think... I'm looking at your trust level.. people have trusted me with their wallets because I was helping them recover their coins.. I could, if I wanted to, have stolen those and claimed I could not recover them. But I am not that kind of person.. I recovered that persons coins, and send all of them back to his new wallet.. I am known to help people out with no regards of earning a coin out of their misery.

So tell me once again, did I bother one of your alts.. because it does seem like your on some kind of vendetta.

You can rest assured, I've never encountered you here before (if only your alts, lol), there is nothing personal. My trust score is irrelevant since I don't sell anything, but I've seen users with much higher trust than yours (e.g. a certain TradeFortress) which didn't stop them from scamming on people in the end. And just like you, they all claimed innocence and trustworthiness...

As I said, better safe than sorry

Well.. at least I know I do not have any alts.

But I have already pointed out how to double check... you on the other hand have only tried to spread fud.

And I have said what needs to be said.. anyone can double check by comparing same compiler from someone else.. your argument about compilers producing different result based on where they run and not about which optimisations are used is still fud. Because compilations are and will always be reproduce able under same conditions for source, library and compiler ... and host architecture does nothing to change those facts..

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 10:27:08 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM

So I'm still thinking what are you doing in this thread, you should be posting in ALLE threads especially those involving escrow because.. you cannot trust the escrow either with your line of thinking...

I'm wondering if you really don't understand what people are risking using your service, or you are deliberately trying to make it look harmless?

So, anyone using this service be warned and aware of the risks it involves

It seems more to me that I have at some point stepped on your toes. Might have been an alt.. you, without knowing who I am, basically point a finger at me, and accuse me of wanting to steal people's coins. And why should people care what you think... I'm looking at your trust level.. people have trusted me with their wallets because I was helping them recover their coins.. I could, if I wanted to, have stolen those and claimed I could not recover them. But I am not that kind of person.. I recovered that persons coins, and send all of them back to his new wallet.. I am known to help people out with no regards of earning a coin out of their misery.

So tell me once again, did I bother one of your alts.. because it does seem like your on some kind of vendetta.

You can rest assured, I've never encountered you here before (if only your alts, lol), there is nothing personal. My trust score is irrelevant since I don't sell anything, but I've seen users with much higher trust than yours (e.g. a certain TradeFortress) which didn't stop them from scamming on people in the end. And just like you, they all claimed innocence and trustworthiness...

As I said, better safe than sorry

freedoge.co

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just hit ignore on deisik, he is just troll and signature spammer who likes to argue with anyone

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: deisik on July 21, 2016, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM

So I'm still thinking what are you doing in this thread, you should be posting in ALLE threads especially those involving escrow because.. you cannot trust the escrow either with your line of thinking...

I'm wondering if you really don't understand what people are risking using your service, or you are deliberately trying to make it look harmless?

So, anyone using this service be warned and aware of the risks it involves

It seems more to me that I have at some point stepped on your toes. Might have been an alt.. you, without knowing who I am, basically point a finger at me, and accuse me of wanting to steal people's coins. And why should people care what you think... I'm looking at your trust level.. people have trusted me with their wallets because I was helping them recover their coins.. I could, if I wanted to, have stolen those and claimed I could not recover them. But I am not that kind of person.. I recovered that persons coins, and send all of them back to his new wallet.. I am known to help people out with no regards of earning a coin out of their misery.

So tell me once again, did I bother one of your alts.. because it does seem like your on some kind of vendetta.

I welcome everyone to look through my posting history.. that talks for more than cheap words from someone who doesn't really know me.. and pretends to know how compilers and their optimisations work.. because you surely seem clueless.. you have tried every attack angle you can think of.. and when I put forward an article about gitian written by the devs of bitcoin on how the compile process is verifiable by doing another compile on another machine you decide to ignore it..

deisik

legendary

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Quote from: CHAOSiTEC on July 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM

So I'm still thinking what are you doing in this thread, you should be posting in ALLE threads especially those involving escrow because.. you cannot trust the escrow either with your line of thinking...

I'm wondering if you really don't understand what people are risking using your service, or you are deliberately trying to make it look harmless?

So, anyone using this service be warned and aware of the risks it possibly involves

CHAOSiTEC

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

So I'm still thinking what are you doing in this thread, you should be posting in ALLE threads especially those involving escrow because.. you cannot trust the escrow either with your line of thinking...

Or any service involving paying with bitcoins..

Nor goods sold for bitcoins.. because who knows they might scam you tomorrow...

You sound more and more like a guy that should stick to paper money and creditcard

Topic: Wallet Compile Service - page 2. (Read 1614 times)