Topic: Wallet & KYC (Read 480 times)

If you care about privacy, then peer to peer trades are always going to be better. However, if you need proof of purchase or sale for tax purposes make you get that. I know some countries require proof of funds, and what they were used for. Using an exchange in that sense will allow you to prove they were sold on an exchange.

Usually, though it's just a record of the sale, rather than why.

Can I just add to this, that when entering your passwords into a wallet then try to do this away from CCTV. CCTV is usually the shop owners responsibility, unless they're the local council or whatever the equivilant is in other countries. So, technically if you don't trust that shop owner then they could potentially see your credentials, which could become problematic if you visit that store regularly. I'd say it's probably very unlikely, but something to consider if you care about security. Since, if they know your credentials, then you're a potential target.

Like I said, relatively low chance of being a threat, but definitely something to consider. For example, you see this all the time since there are usually cameras on ATM's, and people don't care too much about showing their pin or unlocking their phones (which likely are the same pins/password's which they use across different devices/services, obviously don't do that either).

Exactly, that's what I meant. The Bitcoin seller could go to a bank with the buyer and cash in the fiat together.

But sure, it also works the other way round: they could withdraw it together in person and then the fiat receiver cashes it in later whenever / wherever they want.. (or keep it in cash for better anonymity when spending it)

Alternatively, since with Bisq you put the coins in 2-of-2 multi-sig escrow prior to the trade, then if you are the one selling bitcoin then you meet at a bank and as soon as the other party hands you the fiat you go inside and deposit it to your account. The bank will obviously check that the bills are real, and if they accept them you can then step outside, whip out your phone, and release the bitcoin from the multi-sig escrow to the other party.

If you are inside the bank when the person withdraws the cash from their account and hands it over to you in the next step, you can be certain that the money isn't counterfeit. If you are with your trading partner at the ATM and watch him withdraw the money from the machine, it's the same thing. Unless both the ATM and the bank clerk hand out fake bills.

If you can't trust the person not even to give you real bills then how exactly are you going to make the transaction have more integrity when you are doing it inside a bank, as right next to the bank is no more safer than far away from one.

Even for Bisq P2P trades, I'd say. How would you measure the trustworthiness of the person you're dealing with? You don't want to realize that you're trading with a swindle until the damage is done.

Exactly; outside of banks / near ATMs you also frequently find security cameras installed, which further reduces such personal risk.
Whenever I sell something of higher value, I meet near a bank so we go there together and cash in the paper bills after I show the buyer the product.
Same thing with P2P Bitcoin trades.

You are really at no more risk than you are most of the time you go out in public. Anyone on the street could be a criminal out to rob you. People carry cash, bank cards, a mobile phone, jewellery, keys for their car, keys for their house (with their address probably visible on some piece of ID in their wallet), tablets, laptops, and all manner of valuable objects. Lots of things which are far more valuable than a few hundred bucks of bitcoin.

Every time you use an ATM, someone could be waiting with a weapon to relieve of your cash. Every time you step out of a store, someone could rob you of whatever you just bought. Every time you park your car, someone could beat you up for your keys and ride off. A face to face bitcoin trade is really no different.

Take standard precautions and you will be quite safe:

• Choose a highly rated trading partner
• Don't share unnecessary personal info
• Obscure your appearance (easily done in this time of face masks for everyone)
• Arrange your meeting during the day in a busy public location - choose somewhere with CCTV if you want, like a large shopping mall
• Bring a friend with you
• Only bring the amount of money (bitcoin or fiat) that you are trading
• If legal in your jurisdiction, bring some kind of weapon for self defense

Easiest way around this is to meet at an ATM or a bank. The buyer of bitcoin withdraws the money right there and then.

That depends on where you live and if there are enough buyers and sellers in your surroundings who would be interested to trade in this way. Face-to-face meetings introduce some other risks. The other person could be a scammer out to rob you. You could be identified, followed home, and become subjected to a $5 wrench attack. The money you get could be counterfeit or some of the bills could be fake. Unfortunately, there isn't a perfect method for anything.

Honestly, the more stories I hear about closed accounts and all sorts of issues with centralized exchanges, the less I trust them that after depositing a large amount of cash, I will be able to access it.
So for many years now I use Bisq; obviously also for the sake of better privacy and anonymity, but also simply for the peace of mind that I get when I don't need to deposit coins or fiat and 'trust' that I can access it whenever I need. The funds that I have in Bisq are simply in a dead standard hot wallet under my control that I can use to perform any type of Bitcoin transaction whenever I need. I can also restore it using regular seed words without having to contact some sketchy phone support or anything like that.

I'm not 100% sure about this because my memory can be rusty, but I've used Edge as a hot wallet more than a year ago.

The wallet is non-custodial. As far as I know it has a pretty similar back-end structure as the Blockchain.com wallet. Now, the reason why OP is asked to provide AML/KYC, is because OP tried using the buy-crypto-directly-in-app feature. Whereas of course, buying crypto using credit/debit cards and such would require AML/KYC. (unless you're doing it P2P, whereas this option isn't.)

^Not that I'm defending Edge here, but that's just what I think caused it.

Me neither, and if OP is as privacy-oriented as he seems to be I'd advise him to stay far away from any wallet or exchange that asks for personal information.  But it sounds like he's savvy enough not to use whatever it is that Edge is anyway.

Which is unfortunate, because it's one of my favorite wallets (despite the very true things Leo said about it).

I've seen the Bisq name before, but I never looked into what they're all about--but since you mentioned it in the context of the topic of this thread, I pulled up their website and bookmarked it for future perusal.  Thanks for that, because I have a feeling that all of these centralized, non-KYC exchanges are going to become a thing of the past, and probably sooner rather than later.  This whole Luna meltdown attracted the attention of regulators, and even if it hadn't I've been predicting the same thing for a long time now.

For some reason, no one suggested a way to buy crypto through a exchange using an aggregator like bestchange. It after all can be used as an alternative with some reservation. To buy or sell bitcoin/monero or other coins, use cash (completely anonymous and in no way can the owner be identified by it, not to mention the tracking of transactions and the remaining traces). But there are things to consider here that the buyer will have to physically contact the crypto seller in order to receive the cash, which is not suitable for some. In this case, the buyer doesn't leave the data of his documents anywhere, but can reveal his identity with the help of his appearance. Some signs of identification can be partially hidden with the help of hats, accessories or masks during a pandemic. This method is not the simplest nor the easiest, but may be applicable in some cases.

Most of the wallets^* that provide a direct exchange service between cryptocurrencies are an interface where they run exchanges APIs in the background who executes these orders between central platforms and therefore your data (IP address and your documents) is shared through one / several third parties and therefore you cannot guarantee your privacy or your data will be deleted it in the future.

So it is best to download an open source wallet for Monero, run a full node, and buy those coins using decentralized wallets with a trusted VPN provider.

* this include Edge Crypto Wallet

Edge was Airbitz before there are many people who experience issues using their old wallets (Airbitz) but bitcoin.org suggested this wallet for Android phones which you might think is legit.
So I don't know how safe it is but I think it's a medium level of security and like others said better don't use their service for long for safety purposes. If you want to stay anonymous then buy only on P2P sites that don't ask for KYC verification.

Or look for Bitcoin ATM near you, some Bitcoin ATMs only provide SMS verification without submitting IDs but a limited amount usually around $300 to $1000 or maybe more this is the fastest I think, and gives you anonymity compared to buying BTC directly in exchanges.

I never used Edge wallet and I don't think it has anything to do with anonymous transactions for Bitcoin, it's just closed source wallet used for storing multiple coins.
If you want to use wallets, exchanges and services that don't have any KYC, or at least not mandatory in some cases, you should check out kycnot.me website.
Bisq exchange has one of the best ratings, you can use it as wallet and exchange Bitcoin with Monero or other fiat currencies.
https://kycnot.me/

Any wallet which asks you for KYC should be avoided. Period.

If you want real privacy from your wallet then you should be running Bitcoin Core over Tor[1]. Anything else - Electrum included - will result in your wallet connecting to a third party server in order to query your addresses and balances, which obviously is very poor for your privacy. For Monero, I would suggest using the official Monero wallet[2], and again, setting up your own local node to connect to. In both cases, you should verify the software you download before running it, and in both cases it will need to sync the entire blockchain (~400 GB for Bitcoin and ~100 GB for Monero).

For a less aggressive approach, then running Electrum over Tor provides a little privacy, but all your addresses and transactions can still be linked by third party servers. There are some less obvious attacks when using the official Monero wallet with a third party node instead of your own node, but again, this is a possibility if you don't want to have to run your own node and download the blockchain.

[1] - https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/
[2] - https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/

The payment method you are using to buy cryptocurrency is also important, As far as I know, you cannot buy them with credit card without KYC on almost all platforms, to prevent fraud. A wire transfer option might evade such mesures but I have never attempted that so I'm not sure.


Electrum wallet does not support monero and other privacy coins.

AFAIK, if you live in these countries, the United States of America and Canada they do require to have a KYC process due to their jurisdiction.
If OP lives in this country maybe this is the reason why there's a KYC integration that is required.

There are too many options to hide your identity or to mask your privacy, used as mentioned above the decentralized exchange and transfer to the open-source non-custodial wallet.  I think you need to read their TOS first before using them.
I'd rather recommend using Electrum than the Edge wallet.

I highly recommend Bisq, as well. Actually you do not even need to talk to the other person. The software handles everything and there's also a kind of escrow system in place that ensures neither party can cheat from each other.
For a while now, P2P cash is also a payment method available in Bisq, meaning you can find trustable P2P trading partners on there instead of looking for someone on sketchy chat groups or elsewhere.

It has to be kept in mind that P2P trades are not without (personal) risk, while being simpler and subjectively more secure than accepting a Bisq trade that is paid via bank transfer or Revolut, as they might technically be reversible. But then again how do you verify that the cash you get in hand is fine... it's all got to be considered before you try this with a lot of money. Personally I have never had an issue on Bisq so far.

I did a quick research on edge wallet and found out that they had a non KYC option some years back. I do not know if that's still active, and would not advice you use the wallet as it does not have much reputation.

Yes, you can't maintain anonymity if you have released your personal details to a service provider, those details could be used and sent anywhere without your permission.
There are P2P options which do not require KYC, such as bisq and Hodlhodl.