Topic: Wardrick account hacked---trust abuse resolution in sight (finally) - page 17. (Read 25324 times)

Your signature is inaccurate!


~BCX~

He has also done this to me refer to signature.

QS and TC are still not responding.

I'm considering locking this thead and breaking it out into separate threads for the separate issues at play here:

1) TC is responsible for the actions of the people on his trust list.  If he trusts someone who is abusing others, then he is abusing others.  He says above that my gripe is with Quickseller, not with him.  However, as long as he's vouching for Quickseller's actions, I think it's only fair to ask that he engage in a discussion with me.  Given that last time he put QS on his trust list he was very very open and helpful and this time he's got me PM blocked before I even tried to write to him, I consider this to be very fishy.  Given that QS was recently selling a default trust account and that he threatened me openly just two days before being readded to TC's list, I think this is extra fishy.  I don't want to put on a tinfoil hat yet, but think it's only fair to ask that TC respond to trust abuse that's happening in his name.

2) QS is trust spamming.  He has attacked me with three separate accounts.  Even if his gripe against me is valid, he should consolidate his negative ratings under one account.

3) QS is trust abusing.  His gripe with me is clearly personal and puntive and has absolutely nothing to do with the safety of this forum.  He needs to come up with some kind of evidence that I did something wrong sometime if he wants to leave negative trust.  Leaving negative trust for personal reasons unrelated to anything is abusive.

Mods, should I lock this thread and make these three separate threads in an effort to better separate the issues at play and try to get some response?

As someone recently said to me in a PM, dealing with QS is next-to-impossible, he either comes up with a valid reply to something you say or else he ignore you completely and goes off-topic.  Literally his only reply to this thread was to openly mock me saying that he would pay BTC to anyone who could convince him to leave me alone.  Clearly he's enjoying the fact that (1) he's currently on default trust and he doesn't want attention drawn to all this abusive stuff he does so he's ignoring this thread (2) he's celebrating the fact that he's hurting me by being allowed to stay on default trust and keep his false and abusive ratings against me active (last time he was here he was forced to modify them to neutrals).


Edit: Given that (again) no one is responding, I have gone ahead and split this thread out into three separate threads for the separate issues:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142352.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142353.new#new
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142354.new#new

Please comment on these issues in these threads, depending on your topic. This topic is now locked.

to echo each other robotically?  How is that a good thing?  Doesn't this make default trust network into some kind of thoughtless monolith?  I have to admit, I don't understand what you meant by this parenthetical.Closer to 3 years, actually, but anyway, This is exactly what I'd expect you to say to tradefortress, were he around and listenging to reason "hey, tspacepilot and you seem to have had some misunderstanding, maybe it's time to let it go".  However, tradefortress isn't even involved here.  What's going on is that QS is using tf's false accusations to try to smear me.  QS has no knowledge of the original situation and shouldn't be prentending to.  What's happening is that he's taking the word of a known scammer and using alts to trust-spam me with it.  It really should be making him look very bad.  I'm quite surprised that anyone with such an MO would be added to a default trust list.
I appreciate your sentiment, DC.  The only thing I'd like to add is that while it may seem like I'm also doing some sort of "scorched-earth", my motivation here is merely defensive.  Yes, I've been fighting back against QS for months now.  But crucially, I'm not jockying for power (or trying to get on default trust).  I'm just trying to defend myself against an unwarranted smear campaign.  When I say that QS is trying to do a scorched-earth strategy on his march to the top I'm referring to his quick-temper, his intransigence and unwillingness to admit he's been wrong.  He neg-reps and walks away.  Then makes mocking posts saying he'll offer money to anyone who can convince him he's wrong.   While I am indeed fighting back against QS's attacks on me, I'm not doing any scorched-earth strategy because I'm not going around picking fights and neg-repping people.  I basically spend my time on here chatting about the technical details of bitcoin, trying to help newbies (especially with linux-related topics) and learning a lot (I invite you to look through my post history of the last 3 years for evidence of this).  I don't trade and I don't scam and I don't fight with people (unless they are attempting to smear me, in which case, yes, I *do* fight back).

I think that QS really, honestely expected to be able to steamroll me off the forum (or at least into creating another account, or purchasing a new account---maybe from him?!).  That seems to be what happened to the other people he's attacked.  But I'm not going to give him that satisfaction.  I haven't done anything wrong and I'm not going to let a bully force me off here.  QS has cost me time and money but I'm going to keep on defending myself until he leaves me alone.

You say to try an alternate route, but what alternate route is there for me?  Guy has left me 3 neg-reps using 3 accounts and was only recently making direct threats against me.  What else can I do but call him out in meta for this behavior and ask him to stop?  The real surprising thing to me in this situation is TC's silence.  Last time he brought QS onboard he made an effort to fix this (and it was fixed, for a while).  Why would he pre-emptively PM-block me?  I find it very weird.

Anyway, QS/TC, yet another respected community member is calling for you to fix this.  Please listen to reason!

Mmm. I don't believe you can apply this logic to people who are already on depth 2 or 1 of DefaultTrust (we're on DefaultTrust to do things like that), but with people who aren't on DefaultTrust you definitely see that a lot. I wouldn't put it as "jockeying for power", but more trying to get on DefaultTrust.

But meh, the event in question for the negative trust happened 2 years ago. I see the reasoning for the negative trust but after that long it probably should just be let go. It wasn't *scamming* per se either like how EAL didn't *scam* Stunna by (allegedly) abusing the PrimeDice giveaway, just shady.

This whole thread in general from all main participants is ridiculous though. How the hell have you guys let this go on so long? Try an alternate route rather than all trying to scorched-earth (yes, your favourite phrase tspacepilot, but you do it as well) your way to the top by destroying each other's rep.

I believe threads which are intended to draw attention are allowed to do one daily bump, mods if this isn't true, please let me know.

I'm bumping this because every respected member who has looked over this situation is calling for QS to remove his negative trust on me.  Tomatocage seems to be suggesting that I'm sort or collateral damage which shouldn't happen but he's "trusting" QS for some greater good.  I require QS to address these concerns:

1) Everyone around you who you respect is asking you drop these false charges against me.  Why not do so and move on, it will only help your reputation to learn to admit that you can be wrong.
2) Leaving multiple trust ratings from alts is considered trust spam.  Please consolidate your trust ratings from your alts.  You have currently left me negative trust with three separate accounts (note the only other negative I've received has been from tradefortress, who's lies you're currently echoing).

I guess what I want to ask the wider world is also this:

Have you guys noticed how all the dudes jockying for power echo each other's trust ratings like it's a job?  They see that Vod (formerly) or Tomatocage leaves a negative trust then they drop in an echo.  How is this helpful to the community as a whole?  I see how it's helpful for the individuals---they can leave boastful posts saying I've neg-repped N scammers, but really they're not knowing anything about the situation, they're just echoing what others have found out in order to make themselves look good.

Then there's the self-promotion, because this forum often acts like an echo-chamber, we have QS shouting out about how good he is at catching scammers, but what scammers has he actually caught?  I've seen him be wrong many times (me, ndnhc, worhipper_-_, possibly Twister, idk) and I've never seen him back down once he's been shown wrong.  But weekly he posts about how when he's not on default trust, scammers are getting away with it.  But what evidence is that this is actually true?   It works like a rumor mill, he posts 1000 times a day, 10% of those posts are self-promotional, he leaves a million negative reps a day, most (all?) of them echos of what others have said or figured out, and then people start believing it.  Tomatocage: you say you "trust" quickseller (despite the many times that he's obviously been wrong and depsite his intransigence and inability to admit mistakes and his fiery temper and vengeful attitude and his abuse of the trust system (by trust-spamming using alts)) because "he's good at catching scammers".   Can you give us some evidence of this?

Quickseller: can you please leave me alone so I can stop having to defend myself against you?   Please listen to reason and the voices of your peers, everyone on here is asking you to drop this fight.  Ignoring the fact that you are wrong here is making you look bad.

Others on default trust: if TC and QS refuse to engage, I think it's time to ask you to weigh the evidence and consider putting ~Quickseller onto your trust lists until this can be resolved.  It's completely unjust to have a guy with a scorched-earth policy who's been shown to be falsely accusing people more than once and who acts in such an immature and vengeful manner on default trust.  Many people are scared to speak up against him just because of the power he now has and they don't want to end up like me with alts appearning every month to troll them and with false charged painted on their accounts.  At the very least, if TC and QS will not continue the discussion in this thread, please speak up here if you're on default trust to discuss why you will or will not add ~Quickseller to your trust list.

I would love to let it go and move on, last time QS was on TC's list, TC kindly convinced QS to change one of his ratings against me to neutral rather than negative.  I changed my (only) rating against him to neutral rather than negative as a guesture of good-will (noting that his rating is seen much more widely than mine and has much more impact).  I think this demonstrates the fact that I am willing to bury the hatchet and move on.

However, shortly after TC removed QS, he changed his ratings back to negatives and then added a new negative with yet another alt.  I thought it was only fair for me to change my one rating on him back to negative.

Then TC has readded QS just in the middle of a signature-advertising campaign so my account get's a red "WARNING" flag for those who use default trust and while the campaign manager was understanding that I wasn't at fault in any way, they didn't want to continue to rent my signature space as long as I had the WARNING.  So, in this way, the rating hinders me.  Very muchly so.

I hope that TC or QS can take the time to respond to what you and I and LFC_Bitcoin have written.   Almost everyone who has commented in this thread has said that they think that QS should remove his rating or change it to a neutral.   I add that he also ought to delete his sock-puppet ratings from his alts, as trust-spam is supossed to be against the rules.  Overall, I would like nothing more than to see the end of this. I feel like I've been under attack for no reason for the last approx 4 months.  However, as long as the slanderous ratings stand and are considered "default trust" ratings, then I really have no choice but to keep drawing attention to them and asking why.  One of the really strange issues to me at the moment is how taciturn tomatocage is regarding this---in contrast to last time when he added QS and was able to convince him to let the issue go for the greater good.

As I have said what feels like a long time ago, I dont think this should still be an issue. Yet it is. Im not entirely sure what Quicksellers motivation is and in fact I dont need to know. I know QS is very strict regarding the removal of trust. The idea that an account can be washed clean and thus a scammer can get away with a scam is something QS is against strongly. I mostly agree, yet still think that anyone should be given a chance to redeem themself. On top of that I remember to have read the thread that "proves" tspacepilots scam and I came to the conclusion that it does not deserve a negative feedback[1].

I also stated and I still think this is true that the rating by QS is fine and that they should stay on DefaultTrust.

Its seems though that neither of you two (QS & tsp) can just let this be and get on with your lives. Is it that you tspacepilot are hindered by the rating in any way or is this an ego/honor thing?

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11167058

I'm not worried about that. I don't trade, I don't offer any kind of business or service so there's not a lot he could say. Anything he said would make him lose credibility.  There is nothing bad or untrustworthy about me. I'm a good guy.

QS does do a lot of great work protecting people on this forum but in your case I think he's wrong.

I've just looked in from afar & seen your pain. I just hope it all works out soon.

I appreciate the kind words, and I hope that QS doesn't exact revenge on you for speaking up in here.  I've been contacted by several others who weren't so brave.

In theory, if you want to express your trust for me, you should add me to your trust list.  However, I don't really have much of a trust list to speak of myself---I'm not active in this trust-wrangling game that goes on here, so you wouldn't actually get any information by inheriting my trust network.  Anyway, I guess it would show a small vote of confidence.  But the kind words are probably more meaningful.

I'm also at a loss.  TF's accusations against me are nonsense, and were shown to be such over history.  QS latched onto this and I think it's just making him look worse and worse---I'm quite surprised that someone as notable as TC is willing to vouch for his behavior.  Too bad that TC and QS seem to be ignoring this thread at the moment.  TC's only comment was to the effect that I'm probably being burnt here but "sorry", there was some greater good to be served.  And QS's only reply in here was a mockery about paying someone to convince him that I'm "innocent".

Meanwhile, trust is unregulated so other big-wigs will most likely just stay out of this and do nothing.  Alas, the default-trust regime.  The best thing that could happen would be for everyone to remove default trust from their trust lists and start building their own networks.  Then we wouldn't have these trust-wranglers trying to work their way into power via scorched-earth strategies and self-promotional tactics.

I'm at a loss mate, I wish I could help. You helped me a few times with advice on techie stuff in other threads. I've enjoyed interacting with you since we enrolled in the Da Dice campaign & still do. I just have to wish you good luck with it all. I'm a nobody on here, QS wouldn't listen to me any way but for whatever little it's worth, I trust you fully.

I appreciate your reply, LFC_Bitcoin.  I'm going to offer some in-line replies:

I honestly think that QS got into this mess with me thinking he would squish me immediately and that I'd disappear or go make a new account or something.  I don't think he expected me to hang in here and keep on questioning (in public) what he's done to me and what he continues to do.  I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that we're going to see a tradefortress style fall-from-grace and then QS's false ratings will be just as quaint as the one from TF that I have.I have asked, in a lot of ways it's the main point of this thread to try to find out what QS wants done in order to resolve this.  At the very least I think he should address the fact that he has trust-spammed with 3 accounts.  This is against forum rules, as far as I know.
Actually, nobody knows.  This was one of the main sticking points two years ago.  Tradefortress was saying that I scammed him for all kinds of exorbitant amounts, amounts I didn't even have to my name.  I could never get him to nail down how he was coming up with these numbers and each time we talked, his demands changed.  I think his current demand on my account (by current, I mean the one he seemed to have settled on is like .5BTC, but this amount is outlandish.  If I do owe him anything for mistakes with my bot experiment, it's on the order of kSat, not BTC.  But he won't talk to me about this, so we walked away (years ago).  QS picked up this nonsense and started attacking me with it in March of this year.I guess I would beg if that would improve things.  But I really think it's important to make public the kind of damage that QS is doing. I'm not the only one he's done this to.  His volitility combined with his ambition can be very dangerous.  Only recently he threatened me with some kind of "measures" which would be taken against me.  I have to wonder if the current TC/QS situation is a part of those measures and I have to wonder how many accounts he's controlling at the moment.

I don't think you're going to win this one tspacepilot, I just don't know what to suggest. I feel sorry for you. I know you're not a scammer but I don't think QS is going to remove that negative trust. Is there anything you could do to ask him to remove it? What was the supposed amount you scammed (I know you didn't) , maybe paying that amount to where it was supposed to have come from is the only way he might help you? Failing that getting on your knees & begging could be the only option

This kind of comment is a little bit like standing around while someone is being shoved into a police car and shouting out "the police aren't abusers, if they were they would have been stopped by now".  It's all well and good that you shout your ideas from the sidelines, but you're not the one under attack (at the moment) and you don't know anything about the facts of the case (apprantely).  In point of fact, QS has trust-spammed me (using sockpuppets to add extra negative ratings), this is on its face trust-abuse (and this kind of behavior has been called such by quickseller himself).  And he has received many negative ratings, but the hegemony of the default trust regime means those aren't seen very often or considereed.

QS is trying to climb a power-ladder.  The issue is that he's as volitile as a bag of dynamite.  If you're looking out for your own interests you're quite right to do nothing but praise him as criticising him is likely to get you in the same trouble with him that I'm in.

Here's another, more important question: if quickseller isn't a trust abuser, why isn't he explaining himself in this thread?  All he has done is pop in and make a joke about offering money to someone who could convince him.  This mockery isn't helpful and it does nothing to resolve the conflict.  If you look at what TC wrote, he is all but admitting that QS is wrong in my case but sems me as some kind of colateral damage which is outweighed by some kind of perceived god that QS can do.  But again, how is it right that QS is allowed to damage and burn his way to the top and the innocents that he hurts are just some kind of collateral damage?

Why won't TC answer my questions?   Why did he pre-emptively block PMs from me?  How is this related to QS's personal threat on me?

Why won't QS right this wrong?  How many people are afraid to speak up after seeing what's happening to me?

You should read carefully before posting to increase your post count. One of them is just saying that its a bought account which I have always said. The other one is a different issue which I have already proven to be false and is not a scam accusation.

Although quickseller is the only one to give you negative trust rating, you can see that you have also 2 neutral but bad ratings from highly trusted people so maybe quickseller is not so wrong after all?

Tomatocage did not add a trust-abuser because quickseller is not one, he would have negative ratings by now if he really was one

Count me in the same boat. Really don't know what to do next. It sucks when you know you are not a scammer , and show him every proof of it but he disregards it all making weird impossible theories.

So, where do we go from here.

I have an issue with tomatocage for adding a known trust-abuser (three separate neg-reps on my account, none of them valid, all alts of the same person) to his trust list.

He says that he's worried about people losing "real money" but it's not clear that quickseller is helping any more than he's hurting.  See his history of adding neg-rep to worhipper for merely refusing to use his services, see his false accusation of ndnhc (and the potential that he's the one who planted the "evidence"---that whole scandal).

At this point, several people have spoken up in this thread saying that QS should drop his attack on me.  Basically everyone who looks into this agrees that what's going on here is some kind of personal vendetta from QS against me.  I've gotte several more messages from people to that effect, supporting me, in my PMs but those people have explicitly asked me not to bring them up in this thread for fear of repercussions from QS.  If you ask me, they have a point, I certainly wish I could make this nonsense attacker leave me alone.

Furthermore, there's the very strange behavior of TC in this situation.  Only 2 days before QS was readded to TCs list, he made a public threat against me.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11903743


It seems almost too much to believe, but this threat, along with the fact that QS recently sold a default trust account, along with the fact that TC had me PM blocked before I even said anything to him makes me wonder if TC was the account which was sold and/or if QS has control of this account.

Given the unexpected taciturn behavior from TC regarding this, and the conspiracy of events surrouding it, I think it would be really great if TC could sign a message from his staked bitcoin address to prove that he's still the same guy who was kindly convincing QS to let go of this nonsense a few months ago.  Once he signs this message, I hope he'll address my questions above to him?  Will he stand by QS's slander of me and other innocent people?  Will he reach out to QS in reason to get him to drop his false charges as he did before?  If not, why not?

Beyond that, people, I ask you, what can I do?

I don't want QS to persecute me forever.  I have never done him any wrong other than calling out his bad-attitude and confrontational style.  I have never had any business with him and almost assuredly never will.  He has no trust-spammed me with three alt accounts and makes threats at me.  Surely something can/should be done.

QS, will you drop this fight?  To be completely honest, your reputation will actually improve greatly if you can show people that you're willing to admit when you're wrong and walk away from personal vendettas.  What on earth do you want from me?

QS, TC, mods, please reply.  This situation has gone on long enough, let's fix this problem and move on with our lives please!

The thing which makes me hard to believe that was a mistake is your bot's name, "b0t". See the bolded part of SaltySpitoon's post -- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3270393.

However, as you did not have any scammy/shady behavior, I think its good to change negative feedback to neutral.

Edit: I guess BadBear does not think violating TOS deserves a negative trust.


Edit 2: Well, whether returning coins or not also shows honesty of the user.