[WARNING] Whirlwind.money - withdrawals are not being processed ⚠️

BitcoinGirl.Club

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 2645

Farewell LEO: o_e_l_e_o

Quote from: notblox1 on August 30, 2023, 05:28:13 PM

I am tagging everyone who is still supporting old decodx flag.
Very good to see OP got his refund, and for more details please read previous posts to understand better what happened and please check new flag that is created:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3207

Quote

Buchi-88, mocacinno, examplens, klarki, cygan, stompix, LeGaulois, TryNinja, BitcoinGirl.Club, Baofeng, JollyGood, hugeblack, Findingnemo, cryptofrka, mikeywith, 1miau, Little Mouse, Mahdirakib, ScamViruS, Rikafip, famososMuertos, albon, FatFork, NotATether, bullrun2020bro, Charles-Tim, decodx, Poker Player, n0nce, Z-tight, Lillominato89, BitMaxz, btc_angela, LogitechMouse, salad daging, FinneysTrueVision, SamReomo, AHOYBRAUSE

Support or Oppose, it is your choice.
Thank you all.

I am not withdrawing my support. The refund were not done by Whirlwind but the money they left mistaken [Perhaps] in the escrow which was not taken back after the review campaign. If there were not this money then none would get their money.

Quote from: stompix on September 01, 2023, 10:33:26 AM

Quote from: LoyceMobile on September 01, 2023, 08:57:05 AM

You'll risk turning the Flag system into the feedback systeem, where negative feedback is easily handed out. I think that's the reason theymos set strict rules for the Flag system.

I think we're turning the flag system into a debate at Athenes's Lyceum trying to figure out if water will still get you wet if you're taking a bath in a pool full of cola.

+1
I don't think there we need any debate.

[1.] Is anyone here who will say Whirlwind is not a scam?
[2.] Anyone here is going to use Whirlwind anymore?

Quote from: decodx on September 01, 2023, 02:27:21 PM

I don't mind if you withdraw support or oppose my flag. It is your right.

Did you receive money from Whirlwind? No.
What if the escrow funds were not there?
You wouldn't get a penny back.

So fuck all these shit, please no one tag me to reconsider my support. Thank you.

cryptofrka

legendary

Activity: 2226

Merit: 1571

'Bitcoins are like gold bars with wings' - T.W.

Quote from: LoyceMobile on September 01, 2023, 08:57:05 AM

You'll risk turning the Flag system into the feedback systeem, where negative feedback is easily handed out. I think that's the reason theymos set strict rules for the Flag system.

Yeah, I understand that point. But then again, this happened for the first time in years and nobody expects it to happen again.
If it does continue to happen though, there's no appropriate way to flag it and we need a new solution (or an agreed upon course of action) anyway.

Quote from: Poker Player on September 01, 2023, 11:41:56 AM

Quote from: cryptofrka on September 01, 2023, 08:08:43 AM

After all, it's a forum, not a courtroom...

Well, it's quite funny that you say that, because there are a lot of DTs who believe that the trust system should function as a courtroom.

You could have used the full sentence as a quote then Grin

No matter how important we like to think we are, we're just some forum people. The repercussions in a court room are real, whereas we're just playing with our water guns here.

decodx

hero member

Activity: 1428

Merit: 931

🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine!

Quote from: notblox1 on September 01, 2023, 11:30:07 AM

One of the main reasons I changed my opinion because you wrote that you are removing support for your own flag.

With all due respect, I never said that. Not like that. I said "if".

I don't mind if you withdraw support or oppose my flag. It is your right.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

Quote from: cryptofrka on September 01, 2023, 08:08:43 AM

After all, it's a forum, not a courtroom...

Well, it's quite funny that you say that, because there are a lot of DTs who believe that the trust system should function as a courtroom.

At the end of all this I have gone to support flag type 1 and I see that there are a few of us who support both flags. I don't think that much more debate is going to change the support to flag type 3. Even more so when the arguments seem to become entrenched and some people get annoyed, as usually happens with discussions of this type when they are prolonged.

notblox1

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Activity: 2058

Merit: 1264

Logo Designer ⛨ BSFL Division1

Quote from: decodx on August 31, 2023, 06:18:10 PM

Come on dude, really? I've got mad respect for you and all, but it kinda feels like you're not even checking out my comments when you fire back.

Give me a break dude please.
I was one of the first guys to support flag when it was created, and I not defending whirwind for what they did.
One of the main reasons I changed my opinion because you wrote that you are removing support for your own flag.
This is my last post in this topic, I wont participate anymore in this discussion and I wont reply to anyone.
Enjoy.

Quote from: stompix on September 01, 2023, 10:33:26 AM

And you are? Huh

Stompix, I am your father.

stompix

legendary

Activity: 2828

Merit: 6108

Blackjack.fun

Quote from: notblox1 on August 30, 2023, 05:28:13 PM

I am tagging everyone who is still supporting old decodx flag.

And you are? Huh

Quote from: LoyceMobile on September 01, 2023, 08:57:05 AM

You'll risk turning the Flag system into the feedback systeem, where negative feedback is easily handed out. I think that's the reason theymos set strict rules for the Flag system.

I think we're turning the flag system into a debate at Athenes's Lyceum trying to figure out if water will still get you wet if you're taking a bath in a pool full of cola.

Quote from: Rikafip on August 31, 2023, 05:39:23 AM

Since OP (and the others) got refund not from whirlwind directly but thanks to the fact that they left some escrowed money, I am not removing support for the flag.

Me neither, the support stays!

Quote from: Rikafip on August 31, 2023, 05:39:23 AM

Quote from: TryNinja on August 30, 2023, 06:27:43 PM

Btw, I still got around $12 left on my whirlwind note but didn’t want to waste anyone’s time for such low amount, so the victims weren’t all made whole. Tongue

I almost left similar amount there as well, thinking that it's not worth the other people's time but then I thought fuck it, $10 in BTC now might be much more in the future so I got it out. Afterall, every satoshi counts. Wink

If the site is still up (can't check over tor) then I assume the intenal note transfer is still up also.
So two or three users could combine the dust and ask for a withdrawal, if that doesn't happen then.. flagggggg!

LoyceMobile

hero member

Activity: 1643

Merit: 683

LoyceV on the road. Or couch.

Quote from: cryptofrka on September 01, 2023, 08:08:43 AM

maybe some leeway in cases like these isn't such a bad thing?
After all, it's a forum, not a courtroom - so the repercussions of our (potentially incorrect?) actions won't be that severe.

You'll risk turning the Flag system into the feedback systeem, where negative feedback is easily handed out. I think that's the reason theymos set strict rules for the Flag system.

cryptofrka

legendary

Activity: 2226

Merit: 1571

'Bitcoins are like gold bars with wings' - T.W.

Quote from: LoyceV on September 01, 2023, 06:05:12 AM

It doesn't match the flag description, see the discussion in Trust flags.

Yup, precisely - which basically puts us between 2 choices. We can either:

- have a type 3 flag active although technically it isn't fully compliant with the rules
- be compliant with the rules and not have the highest level of warning raised, although most of us feel there should be one.

By raising a type 3 flag here I do understand that we're kinda creating a precedent, but I also feel that it's the right course of action, everything considered.

Considering that this is also to be expected,

Quote from: LoyceV on September 01, 2023, 04:52:27 AM

In that case, it may work to require 10+ Supporters for that Flag, to make it really a rare thing. But I doubt we'll see another Flag just for a once-in-4-years anomaly.

maybe some leeway in cases like these isn't such a bad thing?
After all, it's a forum, not a courtroom - so the repercussions of our (potentially incorrect?) actions won't be that severe.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: cryptofrka on September 01, 2023, 05:52:37 AM

Shouldn't the fact alone that the site is still operational through Tor be enough for a type 3 Flag to be active?

It doesn't match the flag description, see the discussion in Trust flags.

Quote

Do we also give WW a free pass because all forum members were lucky to be compensated without any involvement by WW?

Definitely not.

Quote

my view is that anybody can still get scammed and the situation wasn't remedied by WW.

Yep. But no Flag is going to change that if they find the .onion site in their bookmarks.

cryptofrka

legendary

Activity: 2226

Merit: 1571

'Bitcoins are like gold bars with wings' - T.W.

Quote from: LoyceV on September 01, 2023, 05:36:25 AM

I'm not disappointed by the end result though: the type 3 Flag is still active, but has less Support. The warning is still there, but at least many people realized that (so far) there is no victim (although something could have happened to WWM).

Shouldn't the fact alone that the site is still operational through Tor be enough for a type 3 Flag to be active?
Do we also give WW a free pass because all forum members were lucky to be compensated without any involvement by WW?

________________________________

Not trying to argue, it's kinda borderline and I'm still trying to decide on how to personally approach this.

As it stands - my view is that anybody can still get scammed and the situation wasn't remedied by WW.
There are almost certainly people that weren't made whole outside of BTT, but I agree with you there - we can't Flag based on assumptions - however statistically accurate they might seem.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: mikeywith on August 31, 2023, 11:36:59 AM

This incident also raised another issue, it seems like your influence is dangerously strong Cheesy

I like to think my arguments are ~~dangerously~~ strong Wink

And there was quite some opposition in this topic, which I can only encourage.

I'm not disappointed by the end result though: the type 3 Flag is still active, but has less Support. The warning is still there, but at least many people realized that (so far) there is no victim (although something could have happened to WWM).

Quote from: minerjones on August 31, 2023, 08:45:57 AM

I usually don't engage outside of the collectibles section, but just wanted to clarify this point:

Your BTC was not exchanged for an altcoin, it is still locked in the multi-sig BTC wallet.

You received the altcoin because this is what was available for payouts that was not locked in a multi-sig wallet

For contingencies: are you keeping accurate records including all evidence (such as LoG)? In case something did happen to WWM, and they do come back, all "notes" that have been paid from escrow should be invalidated before the service can resume withdrawals.

decodx

hero member

Activity: 1428

Merit: 931

🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine!

Quote from: notblox1 on August 31, 2023, 12:03:51 PM

Quote from: decodx on August 30, 2023, 07:16:02 PM

What do you suggest I read? I do believe I understand how the Flag system works, and that's why I explained why I think my Flag is still valid. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the points I've made.

Sure we can, but I think this topics is slowly turning into signature spam fest.
I was following events from start and I heard some members telling me I didnt read what you wrote Roll Eyes

You said that you received DAI instead by manager, but one member offered direct conversion to BTC, and you probably received more than you sent, because Bitcoin price dropped.

Come on dude, really? I've got mad respect for you and all, but it kinda feels like you're not even checking out my comments when you fire back.

Quote from: decodx on August 30, 2023, 05:50:32 PM

Did you read my previous comment?

I'm pretty sure I explained every detail, so I don't know where you got the idea that I could have received more because Bitcoin price dropped?

Quote from: minerjones on August 31, 2023, 08:45:57 AM

Quote from: decodx on August 30, 2023, 05:12:40 PM

My BTC was exchanged for an altcoin without my consent and at a less favorable rate.

I usually don't engage outside of the collectibles section, but just wanted to clarify this point:

Your BTC was not exchanged for an altcoin, it is still locked in the multi-sig BTC wallet.

You received the altcoin because this is what was available for payouts that was not locked in a multi-sig wallet

Good thing the altcoin wallet was not multi-sig, as then there would have been zero payouts

Thank you

Totally get it. You did your part without a hitch as far as I'm concerned. I was just breaking down the situation from my point of view.

Quote from: LoyceMobile on August 31, 2023, 04:39:27 AM

Quote from: FatFork on August 31, 2023, 04:26:18 AM

Here's a valid loophole: given that whirlwind's Tor site is still operational in some way, decodex could deposit another 0.001 BTC (the minimum required for mixing) and share the evidence here. This way, the Type-3 Flag becomes valid again, aligning with all the relevant points.

That's not a loophole, it's throwing money away.

LOL! No, I'm not going to do that.

mikeywith

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 6279

be constructive or S.T.F.U

Quote from: notblox1 on August 31, 2023, 12:03:51 PM

I am glad that I helped you to fill up your 40 posts for this week, by pretending that you know if I read or didnt read what OP wrote.
Nobody influenced me to change my decision in any way, and luckily I am not a member of bitcointalk communist party.

Lol
1- it is 25 not 40, actually, even during my time with CM when the pay rate was extremely high I rarely ever came close to full quota not even close, I only post when I feel like it, so you can use this argument against someone else, clearly does not work for me.

2- I don't have a crystal ball to know if you read it, I can only judge by your comment, you simply ignored OP's response (he owns the flag by the way) and went a head tag everyone saying "they should remove their support for the flag", it clearly shows you did not even read his comment, if you did and still wrote that -- it is even worse.

3- Ya, probably good you are not a member of the BCP. Cheesy

4- I recall you were salty when I commented on your "mining pool topic", it seems like it is a habit, so I will refrain from commenting on your posts from now on.

Quote from: jokers10 on August 31, 2023, 12:10:30 PM

When someone becomes reputable enough it is inevitable that he gets some followers. It is not such a big problem as long as that reputable person keeps listening to argues and takes part in discussion. Of course you need to convince him if you want to have an impact on his followers, but if it is possible it's not the biggest problem. IMO.

Sure thing not a huge problem, my comment was more of a lame joke.

jokers10

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 3016

Quote from: mikeywith on August 31, 2023, 11:36:59 AM

This incident also raised another issue, it seems like your influence is dangerously strong Cheesy

, look at notblox1, he did not even read OP's response to your message and went ahead to oppose the flag and ask everyone else to do the same. Tongue

.

When someone becomes reputable enough it is inevitable that he gets some followers. It is not such a big problem as long as that reputable person keeps listening to argues and takes part in discussion. Of course you need to convince him if you want to have an impact on his followers, but if it is possible it's not the biggest problem. IMO.

notblox1

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Activity: 2058

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Logo Designer ⛨ BSFL Division1

Quote from: decodx on August 30, 2023, 07:16:02 PM

What do you suggest I read? I do believe I understand how the Flag system works, and that's why I explained why I think my Flag is still valid. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the points I've made.

Sure we can, but I think this topics is slowly turning into signature spam fest.
I was following events from start and I heard some members telling me I didnt read what you wrote Roll Eyes

You said that you received DAI instead by manager, but one member offered direct conversion to BTC, and you probably received more than you sent, because Bitcoin price dropped.

Quote from: mikeywith on August 31, 2023, 11:36:59 AM

look at notblox1, he did not even read OP's response to your message and went ahead to oppose the flag and ask everyone else to do the same. Tongue

.

I am glad that I helped you to fill up your 40 posts for this week, by pretending that you know if I read or didnt read what OP wrote.
Nobody influenced me to change my decision in any way, and luckily I am not a member of bitcointalk communist party.

mikeywith

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 6279

be constructive or S.T.F.U

Quote from: LoyceV on August 31, 2023, 09:26:42 AM

After reading many different views, "do nothing" seems better now. I'm neither Supporting nor Opposing the type 3 Flag (but I do Support the type 1 Flag).

This is a lot more reasonable IMO, because by opposing the flag you give the impression to other users that you think the whole accusation is false as if it never actually happened, and if enough people oppose the flag it would seem more like (decodx is a liar, WW is the victim), the majority of people won't read the text describing what type of flag that is, they would take your opinion on it as a defense, of course, everyone is free to do as they please, but i am glad that we could reach to mutual agreement of some kind.

This incident also raised another issue, it seems like your influence is dangerously strong Cheesy

, look at notblox1, he did not even read OP's response to your message and went ahead to oppose the flag and ask everyone else to do the same. Tongue

.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

I've changed my stance on the type 3 Flag:

Quote from: LoyceV on August 30, 2023, 11:44:50 AM

@decodx: you should withdraw your Flag:

Quote from: decodx on August 21, 2023, 06:47:21 AM

I can also confirm that I received the full amount of my deposit to WhirlWind.

I've removed my Support ~~and Opposed~~ for your Flag. Anyone who Supported the Flag should consider doing the same.

After reading many different views, "do nothing" seems better now. I'm neither Supporting nor Opposing the type 3 Flag (but I do Support the type 1 Flag).

minerjones

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Activity: 3206

Merit: 3596

Quote from: decodx on August 30, 2023, 05:12:40 PM

My BTC was exchanged for an altcoin without my consent and at a less favorable rate.

I usually don't engage outside of the collectibles section, but just wanted to clarify this point:

Your BTC was not exchanged for an altcoin, it is still locked in the multi-sig BTC wallet.

You received the altcoin because this is what was available for payouts that was not locked in a multi-sig wallet

Good thing the altcoin wallet was not multi-sig, as then there would have been zero payouts

Thank you

cryptofrka

legendary

Activity: 2226

Merit: 1571

'Bitcoins are like gold bars with wings' - T.W.

I have to agree with this part.

Quote from: 1miau on August 30, 2023, 06:05:26 PM

I can't imagine that anyone who's in his clear mind would forgive Whirlwind.money, if Whirlwind.money doesn't even bother to log in and write a few lines here. Even then, it's difficult to imagine which excuse is eligible to get forgivenness of all victims. Whirlwind.money has screwed up big time and needs to convince us, to forgive them. Since it's not happened, the flag is valid in my opinion.

It was poorly handled by WW, and we were lucky to be made whole due to the escrow funds being kept by a forum member. Not sure if that counts as WW repaying the damages.

Then again, funds in escrow were made available by WW, for reimbursement purposes - so I have to agree with the whole part of this as well:

Quote from: LoyceV on August 31, 2023, 02:53:21 AM

I'd argue all this falls under the "make the victims of this act roughly whole" part. When you received the amount from escrow, you could have used it to buy the same amount of Bitcoin again. It's not perfect, but your loss was (more or less) covered.

There's another reason: Flags should encourage people to do the right thing, and when that happens, the Flag becomes invalid. The unique thing here is that WWM didn't do anything but it happened anyway. The only thing stopping me from going for the "hit by a bus"-scenario is the message WWM sent to Hhampuz.
None of this makes sense.

I bolded the crucial part for me - considering that it happened by pure chance, I'm still inclined to support the flag. I will follow the thread in the following days and revise my decision if I feel it is more fair to do so.

jokers10

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 3016

Quote from: NotATether on August 31, 2023, 06:15:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Do you think we are stupid?

"Report to moderator" works fast. It was obvious spam/off topic, not only scam.

Topic: [WARNING] Whirlwind.money - withdrawals are not being processed ⚠️ (Read 2330 times)