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Topic: We need Reverse Transactions (Read 4088 times)

full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
February 12, 2014, 04:35:55 PM
#70
Quote
Is there any work being done on reverse-transactions in bitcoin?

Yes. They just aren't widely implemented yet.

See:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_2:_Escrow_and_dispute_mediation

Bitcoin has the added benefit that both sender and recipient can choose in advance who has the power to reverse a transaction in case of a dispute.

This is easily the best answer to the OP. While it is not the same as a reversal (charge-back), it is a escrow system that works with Bitcoin today. It is entirely optional, and only requires that the buyer and seller agree on an arbitrator (and if you can't agree on an arbitrator, you shouldn't be doing business together).

Escrow has some advantages and disadvantages over reversals.
Advantages:
  • Funds are released immediately when both parties are satisfied. (E.g. when the buyer receives the goods.)
  • After funds are released, seller doesn't have to worry that the funds can be taken away at a later date.
  • Parties can agree to change the timing. (E.g. seller can ask the buyer or mediator for an extension if there is a delay in shipping.)
  • A good mediator can keep both parties well-informed, decreasing misunderstandings. (Compare to a credit card charge-back, when the seller can be surprised months after the sale.)
Disadvantage:
  • Funds cannot be used by the seller until the escrow is released.

In my opinion, the advantages of escrow completely overwhelm the disadvantages.
legendary
Activity: 4228
Merit: 1313
February 12, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
#69
Personally I don't think this is a priority.

In my opinion the following are priorities.

Security: eliminate the need for pools - they WILL eventually overwhelm. Imagine BTC is 100000 USD per unit, wouldn't YOU hack the system as a pool owner just to buy 5 houses?
Security: protect the zero-confirmation transaction by implementing the pre-mined block announcements, so you can see which transaction HAS been received by miners, while it's not 100% guarantee - it helps for the merchants.
Security/AntiDDOS: implement bitmessage like path-cost
Clean up: delete the irrelevant parts of protocol (like locktime, size etc), this will lower the size of blockchain and transmissions.
Speed: implement partial block announcement so clients can get just the inputs/outputs related to it's addresses.
GUI: can't even count the UI mess we have now. at least implement blockchain.info functionality to trace transactions and processing.

As far as the pools go, p2pool eliminates many of the issues - coins are paid right away so there is no pool wallet to hack for example, mining is more distributed, lowering the possibility of a 51% attack. 
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
February 12, 2014, 03:29:23 PM
#68
We don't need this. The ability to do escrow is built into the protocol (although no clients seem to support this as of yet).
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
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February 12, 2014, 03:18:50 PM
#67
There needs to be some form of reversing transactions and fraud protection. Its only the thieves and scammers that argue against it and they belong in prison anyway. People that just want to abuse the system are all for their irreversible non-sense.

No it's not. It's thieves and scammers that will abuse this reversibility like they do on Paypal. If you want protection, use an escrow or a payment processor that will insure against problems.
full member
Activity: 134
Merit: 100
February 12, 2014, 03:09:23 PM
#66
There needs to be some form of reversing transactions and fraud protection. Its only the thieves and scammers that argue against it and they belong in prison anyway. People that just want to abuse the system are all for their irreversible non-sense.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 252
REAL-EYES || REAL-IZE || REAL-LIES||
February 12, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
#65
I see irreversible transactions as a strength, not a weakness in Bitcoin.
not many will agree with you..! and they have enough reason for that..! i think having a irreversible transaction is a feature which can be misused a lot, which already happens a lot with all those reversible PP , so for some small biz owners and many other having a Non-reversible transaction is one of the Features of BTC.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
February 12, 2014, 02:31:06 PM
#64
N O ! 

we do not need Reverse Transactions!
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 252
REAL-EYES || REAL-IZE || REAL-LIES||
February 12, 2014, 02:30:18 PM
#63
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?

lol, I'm sure Bitcoin will have it's own Paypal eventually that people will use to scam.
You can't be sure about this.
If we , the people, don't allow it, it won't happen.

But we all know "people" are made up of "average joes"  Grin.
Don't underestimate brain of average Joes , we people i think now know what's gonna work and whats not..!
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
February 12, 2014, 02:30:02 PM
#62
Wouldn't it be better that if you voluntarily identify you as a legal entity holding a wallet address and that if you did not authorise a transaction
With Bitcoin, if you hadn't authorised a transaction, it wouldn't have been sent in the first place.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
February 12, 2014, 02:25:42 PM
#61
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?

lol, I'm sure Bitcoin will have it's own Paypal eventually that people will use to scam.
You can't be sure about this.
If we , the people, don't allow it, it won't happen.

who can trust a business to track/trade which is untraceable?

the shadow knows?
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
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February 12, 2014, 12:43:33 PM
#60
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?

lol, I'm sure Bitcoin will have it's own Paypal eventually that people will use to scam.
You can't be sure about this.
If we , the people, don't allow it, it won't happen.

But we all know "people" are made up of "average joes"  Grin.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
February 12, 2014, 12:31:06 PM
#59
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?

lol, I'm sure Bitcoin will have it's own Paypal eventually that people will use to scam.
You can't be sure about this.
If we , the people, don't allow it, it won't happen.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1195
February 12, 2014, 11:14:59 AM
#58
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?

lol, I'm sure Bitcoin will have it's own Paypal eventually that people will use to scam.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1002
February 12, 2014, 10:59:06 AM
#57
Fork Bitcoin and "create" one cryptocurrency with reversibility. If the market wants it...
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
February 12, 2014, 10:56:21 AM
#56
Hey OP, why don't you just use PayPal and not waste time here?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
February 12, 2014, 10:54:40 AM
#55
No. Piss off. We don't need that shit in Bitcoin.

Very well put!

Thank you for your insightful post!

My $.02.

Wink

AGREE!
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
February 12, 2014, 10:52:21 AM
#54
Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777
This would be a mistake.

As far as I understand this is nothing like what the op is proposing in this thread  , and not that dangerous.
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
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February 12, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
#53
Reserving or refunding trasactions can be a good idea unless it's not over stressed. it can have small area. Otherwise advertisement of refunds not so good idea.

What do you mean by reserving?

Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777
This would be a mistake.

It's just an invoice network with 'return' address.

It won't be like the user clicks 'refund' and magically gets his money back.

Yeah, that wouldn't be very good, but the option to send back a payment would be.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
February 12, 2014, 09:12:03 AM
#52
Reserving or refunding trasactions can be a good idea unless it's not over stressed. it can have small area. Otherwise advertisement of refunds not so good idea.
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
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February 12, 2014, 09:09:58 AM
#51
Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777
This would be a mistake.

Pretty sure it's just something to easily send the money back to where it came, so nothing to worry about.
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