We need Reverse Transactions - page 2.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: kwest on February 12, 2014, 03:17:54 AM

Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777

This would be a mistake.

hilariousandco

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Quote from: kwest on February 12, 2014, 03:17:54 AM

Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777

I don't think that's the same as what OP is proposing.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

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How about non-legal system, impartial judges combined with escrow. Consider this about non-governmental judges, from Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."

"If two people brought a quarrel to Brody [a non-governmental judge] and he could not get them to agree that his settlement was just, he would return fees and, if they fought, referee their duel without charging—and still be trying to persuade them not to use knives right up to squaring off."

kwest

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Refunds are coming in a future version:
"The Payment Protocol to replace addresses. Supports refunds, memos, receipts, proof-of-purchase, and digital signature."

From here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mike-hearn-london-2014-video-presentation-428777

exapted

newbie

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Quote from: Impaler on February 12, 2014, 12:16:32 AM

The near frothing at the Mouth you see from BTC fanatics to this most basic of ideas shows why their is no hope for rational response or evolution of BTC protocol into something that could actually compete with the mainstream.

You are wrong, and you are being obtuse. Actually, the OP does not recognize the design principles behind Bitcoin. The responses are merely explaining the proper application of those design principles to the problem of transaction arbitration - e.g. arbitration goes on top of Bitcoin, not inside of it.

The way to make Bitcoin competitive as a payment network is for arbitration to be implemented on top of it. This will be more effective than baking arbitration inside of Bitcoin, because it will allow different countries / groups / applications to use systems or mechanisms uniquely suited to their tasks. Arbitration is quite different in mainland China compared to, say, the US.

Consider, for a moment, that Paypal will never win in mainland China. Two corporate / government -sponsored payment systems dominate mainland China - Alipay and Tenpay. But Bitcoin is doing pretty well in China. Bitcoin is completely international because it doesn't default to any authority and can therefore be relied upon by any entity in the world.

exapted

newbie

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Bitcoin is not a complete payment solution. If you want paypal-style protection, use a paypal-like arbitration service on top of Bitcoin. If you want B2B-style protection, use a letter-of-credit-like service on top of Bitcoin.

If you can't secure your bitcoins or don't feel comfortable transacting, use a third party service that you trust. That's effectively the same as baking (third-party, by definition) arbitration into Bitcoin, and it won't endanger the core functionality and fungibility of Bitcoin. The OP seems like trolling.

sidhujag

legendary

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This is the job of an insurer of your bitcoins for which you pay fees to protect your transactions.. if your found liable you get nailed for fraud.

Quit trying to outsmart technology and let it do its job.

icet208

hero member

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Quote from: justusranvier on February 11, 2014, 09:28:04 AM

Feel free to invent your own currency with this feature and leave Bitcoin alone.

+1

mdotstrange

newbie

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Quote from: sgk on February 12, 2014, 01:57:55 AM

I see irreversible transactions as a strength, not a weakness in Bitcoin.

I like the finality of it- it was a bit scary at first but now I feel much more secure with the lack of reverse transactions- it forces you to be much more aware of who/what you are doing business with- its a good thing.

exapted

newbie

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Bitcoin is the final arbiter. Security is implemented on top of it. For "reversible transactions" use an escrow service.

The idea in the OP has to be the worst bitcoin idea ever. Bitcoin's strength lies in its status as final arbiter.

sgk

legendary

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!! HODL !!

I see irreversible transactions as a strength, not a weakness in Bitcoin.

Impaler

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The near frothing at the Mouth you see from BTC fanatics to this most basic of ideas shows why their is no hope for rational response or evolution of BTC protocol into something that could actually compete with the mainstream.

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 11, 2014, 11:44:41 PM

Don't open the Pandora's box. We are better this way.

Years ago, had a GF named Pandora.

Finally got her box open.

Wink

franky1

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Quote from: whyinvestinbitcoin on February 11, 2014, 07:52:09 AM

One of the so-called features or benefits of bitcoin is the lack of any reverse transactions. But in many respects this is a great failing. Wouldn't it be better that if you voluntarily identify you as a legal entity holding a wallet address and that if you did not authorise a transaction (i.e. it was stolen or the goods weren't delivered) that there is a method to reverse that transaction?

no, no, no, no, no.. and NO

what you need is self regulation in this form:
learn who your seller is
only deal with trusted people
if you cant trust them, dont pay them
if they are trusted, they would be willing to refund you.

my personal rule for trading is, if someone on the street asked me for money and i did not know them, would i give them it?.. and the answer is the same answer for bitcoins.

EG
if i dont know the person.. no
if i knew the person and they were honest.. yes
if i came across a store that didnt have all the authentic necessities.. no
if i came across a legitimate store.. yes

bryant.coleman

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Don't open the Pandora's box. We are better this way.

MarketNeutral

sr. member

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Which do you prefer?

"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard."

or

"Visa. It's everywhere you want to be."

vv01f

sr. member

Activity: 314

Merit: 250

noone needs reverseable transactions - go with e.g. http://www.ethereum.org/ethereum.html and built some contracts that can be validated.. this will be part of some client in future, probably in another way than that one

nickenburg

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I think that is a bad idea,
Because look at paypal they allow reversed transactions to.
It only lets people scam other people.
If you sell something with paypal (especcially virtual goods) you need to be damn sure the buyer isnt a scammer.
Because the buyer has a few ways to get his money back, and your product is gone with no money left.

Mitchell

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Quote

So perhaps the right solution is a trust based system with some level of reversibility added to instil confidence in the underlying system.

The most important thing for bitcoins adoption is trust - and I don't mean that technically. I mean that on a emotional human level. Right now most people don't trust BTC for shit because so many people get scammed, coins stolen etc... Just because most people here get and know computer security, you can't expect the same of the other 99% of people who don't even know how to turn their tvs on if they lost the remote.

You could take a look at the following website: http://www.bit2factor.org/ or http://www.bitescrow.org/ depending on your needs. It might be useful for you and your purposes.

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

It has its merits for some of the benefits, but I think the "cons" outweigh the "pros" for the ability to reverse transactions. It would be nice if there were some additional ways to prevent theft (which in the future there probably will be), but for now, it is good enough.

Topic: We need Reverse Transactions - page 2. (Read 4088 times)