Topic: We should build a seastead - page 2. (Read 16657 times)

Has anyone bothered to properly search for water, though?

And there's more to it than that, whichever country would decide to lay claim on Bir Tawil would have to forfeit claim over the more attractive and larger Hala'ib Triangle.


Unfortunately most examples I can think of are from pre-contemporary history, and most are transactions between state actors anyway.

Vaguely related: I stumbled upon "The Market for Sovereign Control" just now, if anyone's interested: https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=3880&context=dlj

Damn, an unrealistically cool idea ... I just watched the movie "Rose Island" just recently, (hopefully you won't be building off the coast of Italy, lol). If anyone has read this thread and the OP's post, and at the same time did not watch this movie, then be sure to take a look, (the story is worth learning more about it).

The film is based on real events that took place in the 60s ... "In 1968, the island of Roses was created by an engineer from Bologna, Giorgio Rosa, in the neutral waters of the Adriatic Sea, 11.5 km from the coast of Rimini, and on May 1, 1968, the independent state of the Island of Roses was proclaimed". "The island became incredibly popular with tourists, especially young people, and every morning a boat brought groups of tourists to the island who enjoyed their freedom all day long".

With blackjack and hookers though?

I think we can have autonomous nations within the countries we live as long as we are willing to cooperate with the governments and obey their good Laws.

Earth belongs to all of us.

I can't comment on BVI or Zimbabwe, but as far as Liberland is concerned, this should not be considered a serious story because Croatia understood the whole thing as a joke. Namely, they do not consider that part of the territory as "terra nullius" but will decide on it at the international arbitration, it's just a question of when that will happen.

Even if by some chance that territory becomes accessible, would anyone want to find himself between Croatia and Serbia if we take into account what happened in that area only 30 years ago, and it is only a matter of time before it happens again.

We don't have to drill to build seasteads, the world is almost ocean, a seastead should have its own sovereignty. We can copy how cruise ships work, they are quasi seasteads, you can live there for the rest of your life if you want. The only problem with seasteads is that it will need a lot of resources because it has to function like a country but that isn't enough to outweigh the benefits of seastead, people can choose who will govern them and seasteads will be competing for people to live in them because they have the most basic economy and they need people to make it work or seasteads can be used for economic experiments like UBI(Universal Basic Income), Cryptocurrency Driven Economy, and other Economic theories that we are too afraid to try in countries because the implications are just too big to do it there.

Bir Tawil (aka water well) shouldn't be see as an interesting location cause it is a deserted territory with just sand, mountains and no water that's the reason why it was not claimed by Sudan or Egypt.
I think British Virgin Islands, Zimbabwe and Liberland could be the best place part with sovereignty.

Please find me a country willing to part with a bit of sovereignty.


Apparently a nation sees a threat if even one square inch of their country is no longer under benevolent control of its mighty government. To take that away is to imply that the government is not the best in the world.

It's like saying "can't we just have one guy on wear a different uniform?". Government is a religion. To ask your religion to allow just a tiny bit of another religion in their realm is blasphemy.

Given the risks and inconveniences involved in trying to live on a sea (especially outside EEZs), wouldn't it be at some point be easier to figure out a way to find a country willing to part with sovereignty over a small piece of land in a non-strategic location? Bir Tawil also looks interesting, but not sure whether it has water without having to drill too deep.

I've increasingly realized over the years that the limiting factor for any project, and especially for big "dream projects" like this, is time/effort/skill/ambition, not money. I'd be willing to throw money at a realistic project to create a seastead (or a land-based increased-autonomy region), but do I want to spend hundreds of hours working on it? Not really. It's something I'd like to see exist and maybe someday live in, but it's not my passion.

Elwar spent massive amounts of time and money to actually create a seastead, and in the end it was stolen from him and he almost died... I admire the effort he went through the first time, and I admire even more the fact that he's still working on it. But while I wouldn't require nightly cocktails and endless buffets, unlike true pioneers like Elwar, I'd like to at least be pretty confident in the safety and stability of a seastead before I'd consider moving to one. For people like me, I suppose the best thing to do would be to donate to https://www.seasteading.org (accepts BTC!) and wait for the space to mature.

The fact is that most people see seasteading as this dream world that they will move to and every one of their dreams will come true. It will be free and you will be rich flying your personal flying car from seastead to seastead spending every night watching the sun set with free cocktails and free food. A perpetual vacation where you also have every convenience of home without all of the difficulties.

The reality is that you are trading government control on land for freedoms that you are likely not prepared to handle, all while living on a sea that is not a calm sheet of glass but a powerful force that makes life ten times more difficult than living on land.

I'm not saying it's not possible because I have lived it. But it is certainly not for everyone. If you would have been one of the families crossing the cold tundra of Montana by wagon the first time with savages, wild animals and cold likely killing off half of your family while finding your new freedom then you could handle early seasteading.

I have found that most people would rather dream of seasteading or wait for others to be the pioneers and work out all of the kinks before they're ready to go visit once in a while (only to return to their current lives).

We gave people a glimpse of a future seastead with the cruise ship, Satoshi, with prices starting at $25,000 and the only responses were how it was not this utopia that they had dreamed about with the large 2500 sqft homes they are used to at home but on the sea, with a garden and flying cars. And, oh no, it's not in your back yard...it's far away in a different country.

The idea of the super megastructure seastead is impossible. We bought the cruise ship at less than scrap prices meaning the price of the steel alone was more valuable than the ship. We weren't even trying to make much of a profit allowing us to offer cabins for $25k but this was still too much for people (the cabin is too small! I can't live there!). To actually build a super megastructure seastead would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Likely with the same sized living spaces costing at least half a million dollars (notice all of seastead designs of all of that open public space for walking around or lounging in the park...not based around high capacity living spaces).

Unfortunately we need to take baby steps to help people understand that living on the ocean is possible (it's already possible...just look at people living in their sailboats). We are building floating homes in a sheltered marina so people can have a "taste" of seasteading without all of those difficult inconveniences like needing to protect your home from pirates or navies or making the day long trip to the grocery store or clinging onto the walls during a bad storm, wondering if you're going to survive the night.

We already have enough orders for about a year of production but if you're interested in checking out what is being created here is what's being built in Panama:
https://oceanbuilders.com

There are some other projects but few are outside of the design stage.

We will be building more advanced homes for the open ocean but they will cost over $1 million for a select few people we would want as neighbours in an undisclosed location.

Since bitcoin's prise is almost 3x higher than it was at the time when theymos created this thread, is this idea still in review?

What do you think theymos? Or are you waiting for another halving(s)?

@eternalgloom yeah it's still a little bit extreme, I'm from SEA and I know our jails are really not where you want to end up at (except Singapore maybe) so he at least is doing the safe thing. I'd thought he'd done all the homework already and if the Navy had an issue, surely it would have happened earlier? Perhaps there's more to the story than we know, but

That said, almost none of the death sentences in my country other than for drug-related offences or murder, have ever been carried out despite being enshrined by constitution, and the same with Thailand and Indonesia. It's only in China where capital punishment for corruption is regularly carried out.

Still, he better get a good lawyer. I'm still wondering why now though. It's really not funny. This wasn't the first seasteading project Bitcoiners have been involved in either.

@buwaytress

Almost can't believe that the Thai government did end up going after them, I can definitely understand them going into hiding, you do not want to end up in a Thai jail.

Jeez (quoted from the article you've shared):


Better check where you build your seastead and avoid countries that still have draconian laws like these.

Yep, it's all over the P&S as of late and I hope that Elwar and his Thai girlfriend are doing ok. I really don't know what the Thai government suddenly thinks that Elwar is a threat specially his pet project about seasteading. Threat to national security? WTF is that? And this news suddenly flips the whole seasteading thingy around the world.

Thanks for sharing this article, i'm doing research about seasteading for school. The article though is terrifying, hope that those people won't get hurt fleeing.

Sorry for the almost necropost, but just saw this piece of news about Elwar and Summergirl. There's a photo and more reports, but this is probably the first one online: https://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30367834

If it's true that Elwar's in hiding, whatever our opinions about seasteading, we've got a Bitcoin early adopter and someone who actually did something about seasteading. Let us hope he's okay, and that this plays out in a just and appropriate way.

The KYC/AML for the ICO is due to the fact that the token could potentially be considered a security by the SEC down the road so we're approaching the ICO conservatively following all of the rules we would follow if we were selling securities just in case. But we're trying to create it as a currency that will be used on the seastead.

KYC won't really be a thing on the seastead (depending upon the governance of whichever platform you're on).

It is definitely not set up to run away with the money. The initial raise is relatively small with a large reserve. This allows for getting just enough money to get the ball rolling, then they have to deliver on promises to keep the value of the varyon up in order to be able to utilize the reserves for building future platforms. It is in the company's best interest to deliver what they promise.

The pre-sale ended last week with the raise about 80% of the way to the soft cap. That is a pretty good floor going into the main sale. Especially with a bull market returning.

"Do you have Know Your Customer (KYC) and Anti Money Laundering (AML) ?
Yes. "

Is this only for the ICO?
I hope it's not connected with the seasted o.o

I saw this project some time ago, immediately closed it since it was an ICO and I thought they're just going to run away with the money
I am interested right now, will do some research on Varyon

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There was an interesting thread some time ago bryant.coleman ran
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/best-place-to-build-the-bitcoin-island-in-the-international-waters-556831

Right now there are zero seasteads. The goal for libertarians is having seasteads in international waters. If we can take a step in that direction with a cooperative government then that's what needs to be done.

As I have learned with this project, it's not so much a libertarian project as it is a project where we can start a government from a clean slate. Sure, libertarians will be content if the slate stays clean, but it opens up the opportunity to try all sorts of different types of governments that have never been seen before. Maybe a completely blockchain based government. Maybe we try out some old systems that worked until they didn't, but learn from the past. Who knows?

We need to build these things. And that likely means building it on land. All land in the world is controlled by governments.

We'll be doing the same thing in space but nobody is complaining to rocket companies that they are following Earth laws when they build their rockets.