Topic: We should build a seastead - page 5. (Read 16657 times)

Took me a while to dig this out, just reminded me about an old idea seemingly abandoned by creator: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19532430

Setting aside my own natural scepticisms and reservations on libertarian societies, most painfully obvious to me is the propensity of individualism to somehow emerge as the dominant threat to those ideals, I wonder if there would be an opportunity for other "talents" to also participate? Perhaps not as a resident but someone who'd (seriously) contribute external to this development team?

At current price, even "21-Club" members would barely have half of the required amount. Can't say for sure these people would want to reveal themselves either.

I do agree though: just because history remembers the (many) failures of such extreme ideas, shouldn't mean we shouldn't continue trying.

It always amazes me how a well rendered picture of the human equivalent to an ant colony - pictured during nice weather - fosters fantasy of the new-rich.

"Childish" doesn't even come anywhere near to describe this.

If you really do not know what to do with your easily gained riches, write me a PM and we'll work something out for sure.

Honestly, this just sounds like picking uncontrolled corporations working as intended (maximum profits at the expense of everyone else) over governments that aren't (corruption, inefficiency, etc.). The "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" would simply be the intended result rather than an unfortunate consequence. As much as you people seem to go on how "authoritarian" the US is (I mean mass surveillance does seem to be a massive issue), you seem to take a lot of the things for granted. It starts from small things like general safety after dark (even in the capital, stepping out after dark without a group isn't exactly considered safe) or having to pay western Europe prices with eastern Europe wages to more broad issues like not having to fear for "liberation" from our former "friends" from the East. All of which really makes me question whether any of you understand what libertarianism truly entails in the old world or do you just not care?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but libertarianism hinges on as much individual social and economic freedom as possible, right? Which means price gouging on vital medicinal goods (see the Epipen price gouging scandal), de-facto oligopolies that crackdown on any rising competition (see Internet providers in the US), exploitative business practices on both the employee (extremely long working hours, low wages, unpaid overtime, fired after a project) and consumer (Skinner box-based pricing schemes, thinly veiled gambling schemes available to children, etc.) sides (see Electronic Arts), uncontrolled environmental pollution (see oil and coal industries), a higher education system that sets you back decades financially (unless you happen to be a genius or have rich parents) and a healthcare system where a person has to wear a vest warning others not to call an ambulance when he has a seizure since that would cost him a third of his monthly paycheck are all fine since they don't violate any rights if you don't use these (often vital) goods and / or services, right?

Hell, all of this is under the US's so called "authoritarian" capitalism. How about child labor, piss poor working conditions and wages (since everyone's gotta eat and there's always someone looking for work), pollution to the point where wearing protective masks is mandatory if you don't want to die by 40 from lung cancer, healthcare financially off-limits to a big chunk of the working class? Even if we were to ignore all of this and assume that hard work = wealth, what about the elderly, who are incapable of working anymore, the mentally or physically disabled, the people who got fucked over / used and disposed of afterwards by the aforementioned exploitative individuals / corporations? Are you going to just leave them to die? If not, where are you going to get the money from? The bare minimum taxes that'll already be spread thin in order to maintain security and basic infrastructure?

Call me cynical, but I think I might be living in a different world, 'cause yours sounds like candyland.

Fair points. Can't really object or add to anything here.

Things to watch out for, to be sure, but past and fictional failures shouldn't prevent us from trying to create better societies.


That's why to start with you have to fly the flag of some country under a special agreement. Then any attacks will be equal to an attack on the flag country. Long-term, once there are a lot of seasteads, they can build their own independent militaries and work together for mutual defense.


Libertarianism isn't just for the wealthy. In fact, the reverse is true: today, the wealthy have unprecedented control via their huge influence over governments; as a result, the rich get richer and the poor are kept in their place. A seastead would at first probably be populated mostly by higher-income people due to the great initial expense, but over time this'd change. People go where opportunities are, and a minimally-regulated seastead will offer tons of opportunities for everyone. With the sweat of your brow, a seastead can become your city as well!

And while I support a libertarian seastead, the great thing about seasteading is that you can create many seasteads with different societies. If you want a mixed-economy government with whatever measures against corruption you think will work, you could do it.


I would be happy if they succeed at the stated goals, but I don't trust those guys at all...

I think, Roger Ver & Olivier Janssens are trying something similar - https://www.freesociety.com/

Automated? Unless you plan to surround the city with advanced auto-targeting turrets than can tell friend from foe and use a nearly-sentient AI to solve any infrastructure issues that pop up (such as damaged buildings, maintenance, medical emergencies, etc.), this is far from automated.

It can if the populace is comprised of like-minded millionaires. Not quite sure how you could apply that model to regular countries with massive and diverse populations without it ending up in the usual "massive mansions surrounded by slums" scenario many east Asian countries seem to exhibit.

All this would ever be is a rich boys club at best or a tax haven for shady and immoral corporations to prosper at worst. While I'll agree that the current governing model is prone to corruption, solving the issue of people breaking the rules by removing most of said rules seems counter-intuitive. If you think this would be a great "model to the entire World" and aren't a millionaire, your ignorance truly baffles me.

Very great stuff sir.. I think it's 100% doable!   There are numerous ways to source for  funds... ICO is certainly part of them. It will most likely be one of very few ICOs that is unique and VIABLE. Would be great to see most of the city automated and run on an extraordinary level of transparency.

I seriously would want this to be a success whether am part of the city or not. World leaders need to be know that Nations can be ran without large and wasteful governments/bureaucracies

The city will serve as model to the entire World. The current approach to governance and city dwelling are quite limiting, outdated and primitive. I am a believer this project.
I am truly glad you'll be part of it.

bitcoin price is high because people simply hold it, and market it, if their mindset changes the market collapses

Putting aside my thoughts about the stability of the $7800+ BTC pricepoint at this point in time, how about we don't follow in the steps of fictional villains? Even if we did, politically extreme utopian societies don't really have a good track record. Then again maybe an echo chamber of rich guys in the middle of the ocean will work better.

Yet for some reason I haven't heard of any major scale project that pulled it off. Could it be that the unpredictability of the sea (extreme weather conditions, piracy, political pressures) isn't exactly the best place to permanently house hundreds of people? Though again, who knows? Maybe tech reached a point as to where it's already possible though I'm still thoroughly skeptical in regards to possible external issues.

Any sovereign micro-nation in the middle of literally nowhere, who isn't associated with a world power (or is an offshore tax haven), is sooner or later going to either face "liberation" or a coup (lust for power tends to corrupt). Take it from the guy whose nation was annexed by, no, I'm sorry, "voluntarily joined" the USSR. Also, Hong Kong? So, restrictions on freedom of the press, crackdowns on protestors and covert surveillance with China breathing down your neck.

Throwing money to run away from society's problems seems a bit childish TBH. I mean it does work if you have astronomical amounts of it but a few mil isn't going to be enough to patch up any of the aforementioned holes once they pop up. Then again if this was some sort of a temporary hotel / resort (as the Seasteding Institute's linked design mentioned), it might work though I really think this is going to cost way beyond several million dollars each.

The Bitcoin price is amazingly high, and it has stayed amazingly high for quite some time. I've been expecting it to crash for the last year, and I was especially expecting it to crash in response to the various B2X nonsense, but it's still quite high. These high prices may well be long-term-stable. Therefore, since we gentlemen are in fact the new wealthy elite, I think that the time has come to work toward a project that I know a lot of early Bitcoiners (including myself) have always dreamed of: a mostly-sovereign libertarian seastead. There must be a lot of Bitcoin millionaires who would be willing to work toward this.

The Seasteading Institute (TSI) has an example seastead design with a total estimated cost of $115 million with room for 270 people. So that'd be an average of $425,000 per person up-front, plus a yearly maintenance cost of $13,000 per person. IMO it should be fairly easy to fund something this size from Bitcoiners, and you could probably go even bigger/better. TSI has already done a ton of research/engineering work and built a ton of connections, so a project to actually build something like this would have a great head-start.

The main goal of seasteading is to have a jurisdiction with minimal-possible regulation and government involvement, creating a space for extreme innovation. Like Hong Kong, but even better. At least to start with, you'd probably have to officially be under some government's jurisdiction (via a special agreement with that government), but it will hopefully be possible to keep this very minimal. TSI has already had some success in negotiating this stuff with some governments. Another goal would be to create a good environment for the people living on the seastead: fast Internet (maybe via laser links), high security, overall good facilities, etc.

Who here is interested in participating in this, and what would you want a seastead to have before living on one? I'm not going to collect any money from people, but if there's enough interest (maybe $75 million or so), we can hire some people who actually know what they're doing and create a proper company with a board of directors, etc. Maybe it could even be made into an ICO, though I'm pretty skeptical of those in general.