Shop around, keep costs as low as possible... you're trying to make a name for yourself. Some things require you to take the hit .. all part of establishing your name/brand.
Don't expect to make exorbitant profits from your first few offerings.
Establishing yourself usually comes at some personal cost.
Be open to criticism. Yes, painful but this is how you learn.
Ignore the trolls ofc.
Engagement pays off, this is also part of the learning process.
Cheers
Viz
Topic: Welcome Bit VIP Coins! VIP Bitcoins & Crypto Collectables (Grand Opening!) - page 2. (Read 1597 times)
August 27, 2024, 06:51:15 PM
August 26, 2024, 01:53:03 PM
Hey, Viz
You caught me!
Just trying to stay on the bull and not fall off.
Got any tips for a newbie?
You caught me!
Just trying to stay on the bull and not fall off.
Got any tips for a newbie?
August 26, 2024, 01:17:17 PM
Your first rodeo huh?
Viz
Viz
August 25, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Hello, Tread.
Thank you for your kind words and support!
We're excited about our project and the unique cryptonumismatic pieces we're creating. Yes, we are indeed planning to release fractional pieces, which we believe will offer more accessibility to collectors and enthusiasts.
We understand that price is a common concern for many. Allow us to clarify the intricacies involved in our offerings.
Design is not just a task; it's a meticulous art form. Crafting a design takes significant time and effort, and achieving perfection is a journey in itself. Each coin features not one, but two designs—front and back. For physical Bitcoins, there may even be a third design element, such as a hologram sticker.
Sourcing high-quality materials and products is no small feat. The minting process for coins made from precious metals involves substantial costs. Additionally, laser engraving each coin is both labor-intensive and costly, reflecting the precision required.
Holograms serve vital security functions and must meet the highest quality standards. This comes at a price, as these high-quality holograms often require a minimum purchase of 10,000 units.
Creating keys securely and efficiently is a detailed process that demands time and meticulous attention to ensure every detail is executed flawlessly.
Moreover, we must consider additional expenses such as processing fees, loading fees, maintenance fees, mockup fees, design fees for 3D lasering, packaging costs, premiums on materials, shipping, and handling. These elements add to the overall cost, as we strive to ensure that every product reaches you in perfect condition. We also must account for making a profit in order to maintain operations.
All these processes rely on sophisticated programs, specialized equipment, logistics, time, financial investment, energy, and creativity. We believe that our commitment to quality and craftsmanship justifies the value of our offerings.
Please keep in mind that this is just one aspect of our offerings at Bit VIP Coins. We are also in the process of developing an entirely new service that integrates our coins with Bitcoin Ordinal NFTs, significantly enhancing the value of our physical coins. Our commitment to innovation sets us apart; no one else provides the unique combination of services that we do. We are proud to lead the way in this space.
In the near future we intend to have an array of different options and price points to meet everyone's budget.
We encourage those seeking more affordable options to consider creating and selling these coins themselves. By taking this initiative, you can offer lower prices while gaining valuable experience in the process.
Thank you for your kind words and support!
We're excited about our project and the unique cryptonumismatic pieces we're creating. Yes, we are indeed planning to release fractional pieces, which we believe will offer more accessibility to collectors and enthusiasts.
We understand that price is a common concern for many. Allow us to clarify the intricacies involved in our offerings.
Design is not just a task; it's a meticulous art form. Crafting a design takes significant time and effort, and achieving perfection is a journey in itself. Each coin features not one, but two designs—front and back. For physical Bitcoins, there may even be a third design element, such as a hologram sticker.
Sourcing high-quality materials and products is no small feat. The minting process for coins made from precious metals involves substantial costs. Additionally, laser engraving each coin is both labor-intensive and costly, reflecting the precision required.
Holograms serve vital security functions and must meet the highest quality standards. This comes at a price, as these high-quality holograms often require a minimum purchase of 10,000 units.
Creating keys securely and efficiently is a detailed process that demands time and meticulous attention to ensure every detail is executed flawlessly.
Moreover, we must consider additional expenses such as processing fees, loading fees, maintenance fees, mockup fees, design fees for 3D lasering, packaging costs, premiums on materials, shipping, and handling. These elements add to the overall cost, as we strive to ensure that every product reaches you in perfect condition. We also must account for making a profit in order to maintain operations.
All these processes rely on sophisticated programs, specialized equipment, logistics, time, financial investment, energy, and creativity. We believe that our commitment to quality and craftsmanship justifies the value of our offerings.
Please keep in mind that this is just one aspect of our offerings at Bit VIP Coins. We are also in the process of developing an entirely new service that integrates our coins with Bitcoin Ordinal NFTs, significantly enhancing the value of our physical coins. Our commitment to innovation sets us apart; no one else provides the unique combination of services that we do. We are proud to lead the way in this space.
In the near future we intend to have an array of different options and price points to meet everyone's budget.
We encourage those seeking more affordable options to consider creating and selling these coins themselves. By taking this initiative, you can offer lower prices while gaining valuable experience in the process.
August 25, 2024, 02:20:59 PM
I am excited to announce the creation of a New Physical Bitcoin Collectible!
First, I want to acknowledge the understandable hesitance and skepticism many feel in this space, especially given the experiences of being let down by third parties with questionable motives. It's left quite a few of us with a bitter taste.
I have several key points to share in this announcement. I want to clarify my stance for those who support me and for those who may choose to distance themselves—though division is not my intention. My aim is to communicate my intentions and respect for everyone involved. My personal views are meant to be respectful, acknowledging that they may be flawed.
To start:
I've been part of this community for over five years, interacting with many of you while largely remaining in the background. Recently, I've decided to step out and engage more openly due to a project I've long been inspired to pursue.
To be clear:
I have a deep love for this space and respect everyone’s choices. Many of you feel like family to me, even if we haven’t met or don’t always see eye to eye.
I aim to heal past wounds by fostering unity in the community and revolutionizing the space.
I am open to collaborating with those who are understanding, open-minded, and not seeking chaos for chaos's sake.
I support many creators and respect their decisions as creators, understanding many of their perspectives. I also admire many creators and find inspiration in their work. I respect all creators who have not scammed or abandoned their projects, regardless of their past mistakes. I trust their intentions and back their products.
If my support for these creators leads some to boycott my products, that’s their choice. I encourage everyone to make decisions based on their own reasons.
As a creator, I commit to:
- Producing quality items.
- Being transparent about my processes.
- Remaining active and responsive.
- Choosing not to engage with negativity for the following reasons:
1. Mental Well-being: Ignoring negative comments helps preserve my mental health and peace of mind.
2. Focus on Positivity: By not responding, I can concentrate on uplifting experiences and relationships.
3. Setting Boundaries: Not engaging with negativity establishes boundaries and promotes healthier interactions.
4. Emotional Control: Choosing not to engage allows me to control my emotions and reactions, reducing conflict.
5. Personal Growth: Prioritizing constructive feedback over negativity fosters personal development and resilience.
Thank you for your understanding. My services are up and running, production is underway, reservations have already been taken and more spots are available. The first product release is in 3 - 6 months. Many more updates are to come. If you think this is cool you can check the project out at
Bitvipcoins.com! 🙂
I look forward to this journey together!
First, I want to acknowledge the understandable hesitance and skepticism many feel in this space, especially given the experiences of being let down by third parties with questionable motives. It's left quite a few of us with a bitter taste.
I have several key points to share in this announcement. I want to clarify my stance for those who support me and for those who may choose to distance themselves—though division is not my intention. My aim is to communicate my intentions and respect for everyone involved. My personal views are meant to be respectful, acknowledging that they may be flawed.
To start:
I've been part of this community for over five years, interacting with many of you while largely remaining in the background. Recently, I've decided to step out and engage more openly due to a project I've long been inspired to pursue.
To be clear:
I have a deep love for this space and respect everyone’s choices. Many of you feel like family to me, even if we haven’t met or don’t always see eye to eye.
I aim to heal past wounds by fostering unity in the community and revolutionizing the space.
I am open to collaborating with those who are understanding, open-minded, and not seeking chaos for chaos's sake.
I support many creators and respect their decisions as creators, understanding many of their perspectives. I also admire many creators and find inspiration in their work. I respect all creators who have not scammed or abandoned their projects, regardless of their past mistakes. I trust their intentions and back their products.
If my support for these creators leads some to boycott my products, that’s their choice. I encourage everyone to make decisions based on their own reasons.
As a creator, I commit to:
- Producing quality items.
- Being transparent about my processes.
- Remaining active and responsive.
- Choosing not to engage with negativity for the following reasons:
1. Mental Well-being: Ignoring negative comments helps preserve my mental health and peace of mind.
2. Focus on Positivity: By not responding, I can concentrate on uplifting experiences and relationships.
3. Setting Boundaries: Not engaging with negativity establishes boundaries and promotes healthier interactions.
4. Emotional Control: Choosing not to engage allows me to control my emotions and reactions, reducing conflict.
5. Personal Growth: Prioritizing constructive feedback over negativity fosters personal development and resilience.
Thank you for your understanding. My services are up and running, production is underway, reservations have already been taken and more spots are available. The first product release is in 3 - 6 months. Many more updates are to come. If you think this is cool you can check the project out at
Bitvipcoins.com! 🙂
I look forward to this journey together!
Looks like you have a nice little project going here, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor to create beautiful cryptonumismatic pieces of fine silver and gold! Did I see that you will be releasing fractional pieces? Sounds cool, but the price tag that I saw in the comments from Mopar was a dead giveaway I think he said $200 for a 10 gram piece which is insane lol. Albeit, wish you the best of luck m8!
August 23, 2024, 08:15:51 AM
Hello, Mopar
I appreciate your concern and understand how my previous statements may seem contradictory.
To clarify, the initial costs to create the coins are indeed fully covered out of my own pocket. However, for the pre-orders, the funds collected will be split: part will go towards the load amount, and the remaining will be held for project-related expenses. This approach allows me to manage the project effectively while ensuring that customer funds are utilized responsibly.
Thank you for your understanding, and I'm here to answer any further questions you may have!
I appreciate your concern and understand how my previous statements may seem contradictory.
To clarify, the initial costs to create the coins are indeed fully covered out of my own pocket. However, for the pre-orders, the funds collected will be split: part will go towards the load amount, and the remaining will be held for project-related expenses. This approach allows me to manage the project effectively while ensuring that customer funds are utilized responsibly.
Thank you for your understanding, and I'm here to answer any further questions you may have!
August 23, 2024, 08:11:27 AM
Hello, Mopar
Thank you for your insightful comment!
You raise a valid point regarding the volatility of Bitcoin prices and the challenges that can arise with pre-orders. To clarify, the funds from pre-orders will be split: a portion will go directly towards the load amount, while the remaining funds will be held in a pool. This approach allows me to utilize those funds for the project as needed, while also ensuring that the issue you mentioned regarding potential refunds is mitigated. By managing the funds this way, I aim to reduce any risks associated with price fluctuations.
I also want to emphasize that pre-orders are not a necessity; they are simply a way for those who wish to secure their place in the project to do so.
I appreciate your understanding and support!
Thank you for your insightful comment!
You raise a valid point regarding the volatility of Bitcoin prices and the challenges that can arise with pre-orders. To clarify, the funds from pre-orders will be split: a portion will go directly towards the load amount, while the remaining funds will be held in a pool. This approach allows me to utilize those funds for the project as needed, while also ensuring that the issue you mentioned regarding potential refunds is mitigated. By managing the funds this way, I aim to reduce any risks associated with price fluctuations.
I also want to emphasize that pre-orders are not a necessity; they are simply a way for those who wish to secure their place in the project to do so.
I appreciate your understanding and support!
Now I am confused, you stated previously that the cost to make these coins are fully paid from your pocket, yet this comment states you would split the customer funds so that you could use a portion to pay for the project - that directly contradicts your prior statement.
August 23, 2024, 08:02:09 AM
Hello, Mopar
Thank you for your insightful comment!
You raise a valid point regarding the volatility of Bitcoin prices and the challenges that can arise with pre-orders. To clarify, the funds from pre-orders will be split: a portion will go directly towards the load amount, while the remaining funds will be held in a pool. This approach allows me to utilize those funds for the project as needed, while also ensuring that the issue you mentioned regarding potential refunds is mitigated. By managing the funds this way, I aim to reduce any risks associated with price fluctuations.
I also want to emphasize that pre-orders are not a necessity; they are simply a way for those who wish to secure their place in the project to do so.
I appreciate your understanding and support!
Thank you for your insightful comment!
You raise a valid point regarding the volatility of Bitcoin prices and the challenges that can arise with pre-orders. To clarify, the funds from pre-orders will be split: a portion will go directly towards the load amount, while the remaining funds will be held in a pool. This approach allows me to utilize those funds for the project as needed, while also ensuring that the issue you mentioned regarding potential refunds is mitigated. By managing the funds this way, I aim to reduce any risks associated with price fluctuations.
I also want to emphasize that pre-orders are not a necessity; they are simply a way for those who wish to secure their place in the project to do so.
I appreciate your understanding and support!
August 23, 2024, 07:55:37 AM
Hello, tweetious
Thank you for your thoughtful comment! I appreciate your interest in the designs.
To clarify, while AI tools were indeed utilized in the creative process, programs like Photoshop and others also played a significant role in crafting these designs. Each of the coins is an original work created specifically for this project, with the exception of one design out of the eleven, which is not entirely my own artwork.
My goal was to ensure that each design captures the unique aspects of the "Bit VIP Bitcoin" concept. I look forward to sharing more information with you soon!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment! I appreciate your interest in the designs.
To clarify, while AI tools were indeed utilized in the creative process, programs like Photoshop and others also played a significant role in crafting these designs. Each of the coins is an original work created specifically for this project, with the exception of one design out of the eleven, which is not entirely my own artwork.
My goal was to ensure that each design captures the unique aspects of the "Bit VIP Bitcoin" concept. I look forward to sharing more information with you soon!
August 23, 2024, 01:14:13 AM
2) The designs of the coins are indeed original works created specifically for this project. Only 1 design out of the 11 is not entirely my own artwork. We wanted to ensure that each design reflects the unique aspects of the "Bit VIP Bitcoin" concept. I will be adding more information about the designs on the website shortly. We also have social medias on all platforms. You should be able to find them, they are all linked together. Much more information is located on our social medias regarding the coins and their designs. You can get better connected @VPBitcoins & @Vip_Bitcoins
Thank you for the explanation & the elaboration on the subject. Initially, I had the -faulty- impression that parts of those designs, were created by... AI
Good to know that designs are original work & I am looking forward to read more about them when you "will be adding more information about the designs on the website shortly"
August 23, 2024, 01:07:06 AM
the biggest issue with pre-orders (maybe this answers your question) is that the volatility of Bitcoins price can mean that if you cash out the Bitcoin and price rises and for some reason a refund is necessary, you are then going to spend more USD than you got to get the Bitcoin needed to pay the customer back.
All payments from customers should remain in their respective currency until the order is completed. Again, this is to reduce any issues with price volatility. if you can refund in the same currency they paid and for the same amount, then the volatility matters nothing.
I am glad to hear you are funding this direct.
All payments from customers should remain in their respective currency until the order is completed. Again, this is to reduce any issues with price volatility. if you can refund in the same currency they paid and for the same amount, then the volatility matters nothing.
I am glad to hear you are funding this direct.
August 23, 2024, 12:53:58 AM
Thank you for sharing these insights and concerns. I appreciate the feedback and want to clarify a few points regarding the project.
Firstly, I want to emphasize that I have never requested anyone to make pre-orders. I'm fully funding this project myself, covering all costs without relying on customer contributions. This means that the risk is on me, not on the buyers, which is a principle I firmly believe in.
I understand the frustrations surrounding pre-orders and the potential for delays. The production of physical crypto coins indeed involves numerous complexities, including sourcing high-quality materials like holograms and ensuring the design translates well into a physical product. I am committed to maintaining transparency throughout the entire process, so everyone involved can see how the project is progressing.
Regarding timelines, I acknowledge that a 3-6 month period may seem lengthy and comes with inherent risks. I am exploring ways to potentially shorten this timeframe and will keep communication open about any developments. Your suggestion of using escrow to hold funds until project milestones are met is a valid one, and I will consider this in planning.
It's also important to highlight that while some makers can successfully launch pre-sales based on their established reputations, I aim to build trust through transparency and delivering a product that meets quality expectations. Your concerns about pricing and the need for detailed planning are taken seriously; my goal is to create a sustainable business model that mitigates risk for everyone involved.
I appreciate the dialogue and your continued interest in this project. Your feedback is invaluable as I strive to create a positive experience for all potential buyers and supporters.
Firstly, I want to emphasize that I have never requested anyone to make pre-orders. I'm fully funding this project myself, covering all costs without relying on customer contributions. This means that the risk is on me, not on the buyers, which is a principle I firmly believe in.
I understand the frustrations surrounding pre-orders and the potential for delays. The production of physical crypto coins indeed involves numerous complexities, including sourcing high-quality materials like holograms and ensuring the design translates well into a physical product. I am committed to maintaining transparency throughout the entire process, so everyone involved can see how the project is progressing.
Regarding timelines, I acknowledge that a 3-6 month period may seem lengthy and comes with inherent risks. I am exploring ways to potentially shorten this timeframe and will keep communication open about any developments. Your suggestion of using escrow to hold funds until project milestones are met is a valid one, and I will consider this in planning.
It's also important to highlight that while some makers can successfully launch pre-sales based on their established reputations, I aim to build trust through transparency and delivering a product that meets quality expectations. Your concerns about pricing and the need for detailed planning are taken seriously; my goal is to create a sustainable business model that mitigates risk for everyone involved.
I appreciate the dialogue and your continued interest in this project. Your feedback is invaluable as I strive to create a positive experience for all potential buyers and supporters.
August 23, 2024, 12:44:06 AM
Here are some questions that I came-up with.
Only because I am going through a similar process right now.
1. Legal Structure: Does Bit VIP Coins have an established legal structure, such as an LLC or corporation?
2. Company Registration: Is there a registered company that manages the finances of Bit VIP Coins? If so, what state is it registered in?
3. Business Address and Agent: Who is the registered agent for the company, and what is the official business address?
4. Claims and Legal Address: In the event of civil or criminal claims, is there an official address where legal paperwork can be sent?
5. EIN and IRS Registration: Does Bit VIP Coins have an Employer Identification Number (EIN) and is it registered with the IRS, or is financial activity being handled through personal accounts?
Only because I am going through a similar process right now.
1. Legal Structure: Does Bit VIP Coins have an established legal structure, such as an LLC or corporation?
2. Company Registration: Is there a registered company that manages the finances of Bit VIP Coins? If so, what state is it registered in?
3. Business Address and Agent: Who is the registered agent for the company, and what is the official business address?
4. Claims and Legal Address: In the event of civil or criminal claims, is there an official address where legal paperwork can be sent?
5. EIN and IRS Registration: Does Bit VIP Coins have an Employer Identification Number (EIN) and is it registered with the IRS, or is financial activity being handled through personal accounts?
August 23, 2024, 12:32:23 AM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.
doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.
There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.
What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.
I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.
Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.
If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.
--------
Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.
for me "quick" is also not 3-6 months - not even 3 months is fast. just the fact that Bitcoin prices change so much (so even if price is in USD, most may pay with Bitcoin or sell Bitcoin to pay with USD) so the longer the time frame the more likely that the customer will get screwed as price goes up and they could have paid less. This is, of course, good for the seller. But if the price drops, what happens? Seller no longer has funds to release the product and it takes longer (we have seen this quite a few times).
30 days is also reasonable.
Being a new maker I also feel his coins are way over priced - makes it seem like a cash grab.
30 days or less for me. Ideally a plan is laid out in-full and investor funds are publicly disclosed as to how they are being used / spent.
Maybe pie charts and colorful graphs as to where every dollar of investor capital is being allocated.
In terms of bitcoin volatility, this will always be a problem.
Seller would either need to cash the bitcoin into dollars right away to reduce the volatility, or legit gamble on the price. Up or down.
In terms of running a proper operation, none of this should be gambling or half baked. It needs to be planed out, margins calculated in advance, timelines, blueprints and technical details all done in advance.
Where my projects have not panned out in the past, there was not enough hard math and data. There was too much guess work and intuition involved. Planning and deliberate movement are a requirement, not a symptom of an operation.
August 23, 2024, 12:17:42 AM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.
doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.
There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.
What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.
I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.
Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.
If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.
--------
Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.
for me "quick" is also not 3-6 months - not even 3 months is fast. just the fact that Bitcoin prices change so much (so even if price is in USD, most may pay with Bitcoin or sell Bitcoin to pay with USD) so the longer the time frame the more likely that the customer will get screwed as price goes up and they could have paid less. This is, of course, good for the seller. But if the price drops, what happens? Seller no longer has funds to release the product and it takes longer (we have seen this quite a few times).
30 days is also reasonable.
Being a new maker I also feel his coins are way over priced - makes it seem like a cash grab.
August 23, 2024, 12:10:25 AM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
You shouldn’t call it a presale, it should be a capital investment project. For example - I’m sure smoothie has the funds to make all of his coins beforehand and then sell them. Instead he does pre sales… which pretty much suck. But at least it’s a presale from a known verified creator. You know you are 99% likely going to get your coins. Now Stacks may get them quicker, but yours will show up in time. I don’t consider that a capital investment just cheap way to do business.
Now if you don’t have the capital to fund it yourself - I’m literally an investor in your dream and it should be noted that way. Sad thing is nobody admits this. Those that can finance it do, those that can’t launch a presale even tho they are just using that money to build. Sometimes it works out and a lot of times the buyer ends up fucked. But it’s pretty much a near guarantee that the deadline won’t be hit.
Smoothie is an excellent example of a maker who does a presale indeed.
He creates a design, maybe obtains a sample and pitches the community on the idea at a price point that allows him to make a profit as well as cover his expenses.
Liquid options on the other-hand is an excellent example of someone who builds first, asks for money second.
LO pops up once a month, out of nowhere with a fully finished product. Ready to go, sometimes the same day the buyer pays.
In terms of safety, LEALANA has a huge longstanding reputation that he is able to fall back on for his presales. He knows that this forum would kill and butcher him if does not deliver.
LO is much more new, and maybe he can't swing a presale with his reputation. Even though his coins and delivery are top-notch.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 23, 2024, 12:05:31 AM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.
doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.
There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.
What specifically do you consider to be a "Quick" time-frame.
I know Kaz is proposing a 3-6 month loose timeline. I feel this is by no means "Quick", and to be out my money for this long poses a risk and a danger.
Much can change within 3 to 6 months, things can go wrong, people can get sick, geopolitical events can unfold.
If the timeline was 30 days I would be much more willing to entertain the idea.
--------
Also if the funding amount was held in an escrow theoretically held by MJ this would put me at ease, but in that event the funds could not be used towards funding the project development.
--------
Perhaps if the idea was fully transparent as opposed to being murky with factors hidden from the eyes of investors. We need perfected logistics, design blueprints and public transparent transactions so investors can see where there money is going.
August 22, 2024, 11:52:38 PM
100% agree w/ PreciousMetapsICT - the risk needs to be on the seller/maker not on the customer. If it is on the customer then it is indeed an investment and a risky one. That is one reason to start small and cheaper - to build capital, not take $10 in silver add $60 in BTC and sell for $200 if you cannot fund that cost yourself.
people come into this space with quick get rich schemes all the time - most are broke and expect the community to shoulder their cost - and when they fuck it up, they beg forgiveness and blame it on being "new".
with any business, dont start what you cannot pay for.
That is the main reason I have not yet made the coin I want to make and instead are working for others - to build my capital.
I dont like the idea of putting anyone here at risk. It simply is bad business to do so.
people come into this space with quick get rich schemes all the time - most are broke and expect the community to shoulder their cost - and when they fuck it up, they beg forgiveness and blame it on being "new".
with any business, dont start what you cannot pay for.
That is the main reason I have not yet made the coin I want to make and instead are working for others - to build my capital.
I dont like the idea of putting anyone here at risk. It simply is bad business to do so.
August 22, 2024, 11:34:01 PM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
You shouldn’t call it a presale, it should be a capital investment project. For example - I’m sure smoothie has the funds to make all of his coins beforehand and then sell them. Instead he does pre sales… which pretty much suck. But at least it’s a presale from a known verified creator. You know you are 99% likely going to get your coins. Now Stacks may get them quicker, but yours will show up in time. I don’t consider that a capital investment just cheap way to do business.
Now if you don’t have the capital to fund it yourself - I’m literally an investor in your dream and it should be noted that way. Sad thing is nobody admits this. Those that can finance it do, those that can’t launch a presale even tho they are just using that money to build. Sometimes it works out and a lot of times the buyer ends up fucked. But it’s pretty much a near guarantee that the deadline won’t be hit.
August 22, 2024, 11:06:08 PM
Presales are the first sign of a ponzi - prove me wrong
How does a coin-maker or a company produce a product from scratch if they have no capital reserves to begin with.
For example, If I said tomorrow I am going to be minting Eclipse coin. This should be at minimum $10,000, dyes, metals and cheap holograms.
If I am a proposed maker and I don't have the capital to begin-with. What do I do aside from pre-sale and raise funds from investors.
Or go the traditional route which is securing a loan from a bank either a personal or a business loan.
Thoughts?
if you cannot fund your business from your own reserves, get a loan, it should never ever be expected for customers to be the ones funding the project - reserving maybe - but then their funds should be held and not used.
doing it where you have to use customer funds to produce your work, unless its pretty damn instant, someone is getting fucked.
There is geyser - where they hold the funds until the project is funded. that might be a safer way.
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