Western Union considering using Bitcoin - page 3.

gollum

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Quote from: BTC Books on April 18, 2013, 10:57:32 PM

Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:50:04 PM

Hmm, I figured that they would have essentially a "float" in most major denominations and use internal account methods to track the money and authorize it from each account. That way when you send money say from the UK to the US, the money doesn't actually get transferred from GBP to USD (and have the associated fee's), it would simply be a deposit in GBP and a withdrawl in USD, later to be cancelled out (on average) by someone sending money from the US to the UK.

You're re-inventing the Islamic Halawa transfer system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

Money in the West works differently. We can be open about charging interest, for example.

Western Union is probably already using some kind of "Halawa" internally.

Peleus

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Quote from: BTC Books on April 18, 2013, 10:57:32 PM

Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:50:04 PM

Hmm, I figured that they would have essentially a "float" in most major denominations and use internal account methods to track the money and authorize it from each account. That way when you send money say from the UK to the US, the money doesn't actually get transferred from GBP to USD (and have the associated fee's), it would simply be a deposit in GBP and a withdrawl in USD, later to be cancelled out (on average) by someone sending money from the US to the UK.

You're re-inventing the Islamic Halawa transfer system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

Money in the West works differently. We can be open about charging interest, for example.

Thanks for the link. I'm not necessarily advocating it in any way, I just always thought that it would be the type of system WU would use considering it can "trust" itself, and the Hawala agents (in this case) are simply bank accounts it owns in different countries. Unless one countries bank account gets quite low (Ie. lots of people sending money to the US but no one sending it out) they would be avoiding international transaction fee's via this method.

BTC Books

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Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:50:04 PM

Hmm, I figured that they would have essentially a "float" in most major denominations and use internal account methods to track the money and authorize it from each account. That way when you send money say from the UK to the US, the money doesn't actually get transferred from GBP to USD (and have the associated fee's), it would simply be a deposit in GBP and a withdrawl in USD, later to be cancelled out (on average) by someone sending money from the US to the UK.

You're re-inventing the Islamic Halawa transfer system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

Money in the West works differently. We can be open about charging interest, for example.

Minor Miner

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The best part of this would be the end of Gox and the mickey mouse "exchanges". WU would provide the legitimacy and the volume required that would get bitcoin on a real exchange with the other currencies. Gox would be irrelevant overnight and we could all get feeds that actually work.

Peleus

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Quote from: BTC Books on April 18, 2013, 10:18:38 PM

Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:09:49 PM

I'm confused.

What could WU do with Bitcoin that they couldn't already do with fiat?

Wouldn't they have a huge float in an account in each currency and just arbitrage between the accounts to keep them level?

Why would it be necessary to go Fiat *Location 1* > BTC *Tranferring* > Fiat *Location 2* when they can just go Fiat > Fiat

You're missing some information about how money works.

It is NEVER Fiat -> Fiat (Dollars in New York to GBP in London, for example). Money takes a circuitous route from country to country with little fees at every stop, and the people who control that route are the banks. They make their handshake deals...

Bitcoin takes that fee structure away from the banks, and gives it (for much less, assumptively) to the most efficient forex exchanger.

It would take a company at least the size of WU to pull it off. There's nothing in bitcoinland that's even remotely close.

Hmm, I figured that they would have essentially a "float" in most major denominations and use internal account methods to track the money and authorize it from each account. That way when you send money say from the UK to the US, the money doesn't actually get transferred from GBP to USD (and have the associated fee's), it would simply be a deposit in GBP and a withdrawl in USD, later to be cancelled out (on average) by someone sending money from the US to the UK.

101111

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totally agree with you gollum, and btw you were great in that hobbit movie

gollum

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Quote from: 101111 on April 18, 2013, 10:35:47 PM

They can see a disruptive tech that could perhaps quickly undermine them. Better to adopt it than fight it. They have the brand ( = trust, yes intrinsic value!) and network/physical resources. Cost structure may fall so perhaps profits increase despite lower fees. Aim to become a major player in the bitcoin ecosystem with blue sky potential.

We are talking a lot about someone trustworthy that should issue digital dollar IOUs that we can trade against bitcoin - Western Union might be the missing link here, they can take the role as the trustworthy IOU issuer.

101111

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They can see a disruptive tech that could perhaps quickly undermine them. Better to adopt it than fight it. They have the brand ( = trust, yes intrinsic value!) and network/physical resources. Cost structure may fall so perhaps profits increase despite lower fees. Aim to become a major player in the bitcoin ecosystem with blue sky potential.

gollum

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Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:09:49 PM

I'm confused.

What could WU do with Bitcoin that they couldn't already do with fiat?

Wouldn't they have a huge float in an account in each currency and just arbitrage between the accounts to keep them level?

Why would it be necessary to go Fiat *Location 1* > BTC *Tranferring* > Fiat *Location 2* when they can just go Fiat > Fiat

Western Union should look at bitcoin at an oppurtunity instead of a threat. Western Union + Bitcoin would be the perfect marriage.
They got dealers around the world that can thandle cash and financial muscles and would become the no 1 place for people to convert between fiat and bitcoin in person.

BTC Books

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Quote from: Peleus on April 18, 2013, 10:09:49 PM

I'm confused.

What could WU do with Bitcoin that they couldn't already do with fiat?

Wouldn't they have a huge float in an account in each currency and just arbitrage between the accounts to keep them level?

Why would it be necessary to go Fiat *Location 1* > BTC *Tranferring* > Fiat *Location 2* when they can just go Fiat > Fiat

You're missing some information about how money works.

It is NEVER Fiat -> Fiat (Dollars in New York to GBP in London, for example). Money takes a circuitous route from country to country with little fees at every stop, and the people who control that route are the banks. They make their handshake deals...

Bitcoin takes that fee structure away from the banks, and gives it (for much less, assumptively) to the most efficient forex exchanger.

It would take a company at least the size of WU to pull it off. There's nothing in bitcoinland that's even remotely close.

jmw74

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Quote from: justusranvier on April 18, 2013, 09:48:03 PM

Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 09:46:17 PM

So what exactly does Western Union have to offer?

Hundreds of thousands of locations all over the world where people are already accustomed to sending and receiving money via a pre-existing network of affiliates all over the world.

I'm sure their stockholders will be thrilled to have their revenue cut by 99%.

Peleus

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I'm confused.

What could WU do with Bitcoin that they couldn't already do with fiat?

Wouldn't they have a huge float in an account in each currency and just arbitrage between the accounts to keep them level?

Why would it be necessary to go Fiat *Location 1* > BTC *Tranferring* > Fiat *Location 2* when they can just go Fiat > Fiat

BTC Books

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Quote from: justusranvier on April 18, 2013, 09:48:03 PM

Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 09:46:17 PM

So what exactly does Western Union have to offer?

Hundreds of thousands of locations all over the world where people are already accustomed to sending and receiving money via a pre-existing network of affiliates all over the world.

AND solid, unimpeachable connections to every bank and financial regulating body in the world.

Operatr

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I smell a fresh exchange hike coming on Grin

justusranvier

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Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 09:46:17 PM

So what exactly does Western Union have to offer?

Hundreds of thousands of locations all over the world where people are already accustomed to sending and receiving money via a pre-existing network of affiliates all over the world.

jmw74

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Quote from: bitcool on April 18, 2013, 09:02:33 PM

Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 08:54:14 PM

Western Union is going to do what with bitcoin now?

What can they possibly do, other than lay off most of their employees, and use their existing locations to house bitcoin ATMs?

Actually, if they position themselves well, their locations can become mini exchanges all over the world.... So instead of exchanging btc at street corner, you go to a WU branch.

If I want to wire money overseas (say Cyprus), I could go to a bitcoin ATM here, insert $100. It either asks me for a password that the recipient already knows, or it just gives me a code that the recipient can use to redeem. The recipient in Cyprus goes to a bitcoin ATM, inputs the password or code, receives euros. As far as I know, the bitcoin ATMs we've seen the demo videos of can already do this (perhaps minus some minor software tweaks to accept and produce passwords or codes that map to bitcoin keys).

So what exactly does Western Union have to offer? Just a place to put the machine.

justusranvier

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Quote from: bitcool on April 18, 2013, 09:02:33 PM

Actually, if they position themselves well, their locations can become mini exchanges all over the world.... So instead of exchanging btc at street corner, you go to a WU branch.

The vast majority of the kiosks they have all over the world are outside US jurisdiction, or at least would be if they weren't processing dollars.

A foreign subsidiary, for example, could receive BTC and give out local currency without being bothered in the slightest by the regulations and limitations associated with moving dollars internationally.

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 08:54:14 PM

Western Union is going to do what with bitcoin now?

What can they possibly do, other than lay off most of their employees, and use their existing locations to house bitcoin ATMs?

Actually, if they position themselves well, their locations can become mini exchanges all over the world.... So instead of exchanging btc at street corner, you go to a WU branch.

datafish

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Quote from: jmw74 on April 18, 2013, 08:54:14 PM

Western Union is going to do what with bitcoin now?

What can they possibly do, other than lay off most of their employees, and use their existing locations to house bitcoin ATMs?

Lol, this.

jmw74

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Activity: 236

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Western Union is going to do what with bitcoin now?

What can they possibly do, other than lay off most of their employees, and use their existing locations to house bitcoin ATMs?

Topic: Western Union considering using Bitcoin - page 3. (Read 7083 times)