but it makes sense to use it as a payment protocol, particularly among a thinly and widely dispersed population.
This, think beyond the concept of "countries". Where does that word come from anyway?
Topic: What about a REAL Bitcoin community? (Read 3046 times)
This, think beyond the concept of "countries". Where does that word come from anyway?
Greenland has several times dabbled with creating its own currency, but it hasn't been practical given the tiny population and low revenue. I would not suggest that any government exclusively adopt this hyper-volatile bitcoin, but it makes sense to use it as a payment protocol, particularly among a thinly and widely dispersed population (affordable internet is a citizen's right in every tiny village). The government could accept tax payment in bitcoin, lock an exchange rate for ten minutes, perhaps run an exchange themselves. However, it's difficult to argue against every citizen opening an account in the capital with 'trusted' banks.
I have a related "plan" which might be modified or incorporated into these kind of project easily. I can go Greenland or anywhere with my family belongings, pets and mining rigs if there're already have a credible receiver/hosts. But the first question always is: Will local governments/authorities welcome us? If they're welcome, I think there'll have less difficulties.
Might I suggest you look into the Free State Project in New Hampshire. They are already supporting bitcoin.
I assumed (and still unjustly presume) they are a bunch of wacos. I read some of their earlier threads and at least the material I came across was of high quality, well reasoned, from intelligent articulate authors. I'm curious enough to consider meeting this gang of "Live Free or Die-ers". I still think Greenland is the best place on Earth, but I can't even get my own parents to visit.
Here's a crazy thought I had.
So, I'm sure there are probably 1 or 2 extreme diehards lurking around here that will be seriously intrigued by what I'm about to say. For everyone else, consider it a fun thought I had the pleasure of entertaining for the past few minutes.
I would estimate that there are a fairly large amount of people on this forum that all meet the following critera:
1.) They check Bitcoin everyday or almost every day
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
4.) They are generally good and honest people
Additionally, I would add that these members likely have a wide variety of talents and abilities as a group.
So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch. The cash from their "real world" lives could be used to establish rudimentary housing and infrastructure. Then, Bitcoin would be used exclusively within this community. Community members would work to collect food, keep the community area clean, sell basic products/services, etc.
While the community will (naturally) have a law prohibiting the use of fiat currency (punishable by stoning), there will be an exception in the case of paying the electric bill. How else ya gonna mine?
If you ever wanted to see the price of Bitcoin increase, this would be chance of a lifetime! With Bitcoin being the only legal means of acquiring goods and services, Bitcoin would bepractically virtually (get it?) priceless!
Er...but what about the exchange rate?
You mean...no more fun on the exchanges? No more rally cries whiledawning donning viking hats and blowing kazoos, the smell of titanium in the air?
Now I'm all confused. A community without Gox Live? Fuck it.
So, I'm sure there are probably 1 or 2 extreme diehards lurking around here that will be seriously intrigued by what I'm about to say. For everyone else, consider it a fun thought I had the pleasure of entertaining for the past few minutes.
I would estimate that there are a fairly large amount of people on this forum that all meet the following critera:
1.) They check Bitcoin everyday or almost every day
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
4.) They are generally good and honest people
Additionally, I would add that these members likely have a wide variety of talents and abilities as a group.
So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch. The cash from their "real world" lives could be used to establish rudimentary housing and infrastructure. Then, Bitcoin would be used exclusively within this community. Community members would work to collect food, keep the community area clean, sell basic products/services, etc.
While the community will (naturally) have a law prohibiting the use of fiat currency (punishable by stoning), there will be an exception in the case of paying the electric bill. How else ya gonna mine?
If you ever wanted to see the price of Bitcoin increase, this would be chance of a lifetime! With Bitcoin being the only legal means of acquiring goods and services, Bitcoin would be
Er...but what about the exchange rate?
You mean...no more fun on the exchanges? No more rally cries while
Now I'm all confused. A community without Gox Live? Fuck it.
I'm already doing this.
The land will have about 20 hectares, with rivers, wind, solar power, food and homes for every single person of the community...
All of our technology will be open sourced, including electric generators, cars, money, food, medications, water treatment, etc...
The CryptoCurrencies we are planing to use include the Bitcoin itself, of course, Litecoin and Namecoin.
If fact, my objetive is to create a "moneyless" society, based entirely in a resource-based economy but, this is for the future, long run...
All our Bitcoin Mining Rig will be powered by renewable energy, produced in our experimental city, so, no electricity bills. The generators (hybrid powerplants), nobreaks, powerlines, trafos, etc, will all be open source. So, everybody in the World will be able to copy what we are doing, for free.
The base of our city will be built using the project "Open Source Ecology - GVCS". And the future it can be somethuing like The Venus Project.
Best!
Thiago
I've been planning something similar, and have been wondering when the net offers enough smart people to pull this through. But it's not only about Bitcoin for me, it's about limiting government insanity in general. We must create a place on earth that is not drowning everything in idiotic dynamics. Unpunished corruption, patents + patent ceasefires, tax friction within productive cycles, government stealing and re-distributing funds in arbitrary fashion, hell, I HATE IT. I want to show these people the true power of a modern society, but the system is set up to throw as good as every cheaply available obstacle into my path. (They never throw expensive obstacles, the cheapskates. 
)
I think of a country that makes only few rules, rules that can be proven or very strongly indicated correct. Then, it makes sure everyone who breaks these rules is hit hard, hard enough to satisfy the requirements from game theory. It is the only functional type of society I know, and the place of my dreams. I believe anybody truly awake should be longing for a place like that. But this is the sad part: exist enough people who are "truly awake" by my definition?
)I think of a country that makes only few rules, rules that can be proven or very strongly indicated correct. Then, it makes sure everyone who breaks these rules is hit hard, hard enough to satisfy the requirements from game theory. It is the only functional type of society I know, and the place of my dreams. I believe anybody truly awake should be longing for a place like that. But this is the sad part: exist enough people who are "truly awake" by my definition?
You sound like a perfect candidate for the Free State Project.
http://freestateproject.org
Quote
In case anyone still doubts it, I am serious. I think a new country can be built from scratch that easily outperforms anything mankind has seen. All we need is the correct set of rules, a qualified population of 1~10k, a patch of land with trade access, enough know-how and funds to bring up basic infrastructure, and an international payment method not blocked by trade barriers (heh, guess what! 
).
).On the issue of building a new country "from scratch"... how would you acquire land that isn't already supposedly under the jurisdiction of (read: owned by) some existing government?
I like this idea (but moving is not an option for me and my family). Might I suggest you look into the Free State Project in New Hampshire. They are already supporting bitcoin. You could create a sub-community that wants to deal exclusively in bitcoin. You should try and become completely self sufficient for the basic necessities…generate your own power, grow your own food, use well water and septic tanks, etc. That will enable everyone to use bitcoin exclusively for their basic needs. For other things you might need that you don't produce within the community, I think there are already plenty of vendors willing to sell you things for bitcoin. You might look into other such isolated communities (amish, various religious communes, etc and see what issues they face and what you'll have to deal with).
I've often thought that if a sizable community developed that used bitcoin as its primary currency that it would have an extremely positive effect on the more general adoption of bitcoin. The existence of such a community means that there is always a place on Earth where one could move and obtain the basic necessities of life using bitcoin. That could be the reassurance needed for some people to be comfortable in using bitcoin.
I've often thought that if a sizable community developed that used bitcoin as its primary currency that it would have an extremely positive effect on the more general adoption of bitcoin. The existence of such a community means that there is always a place on Earth where one could move and obtain the basic necessities of life using bitcoin. That could be the reassurance needed for some people to be comfortable in using bitcoin.
I claim that current BTC price proves that 99.9999% (1-10^-6) of humanity cannot be awake. The lock-downs on free trade are causing damages beyond imagination, hitting everywhere around the world, on a scope a sane mind cannot grasp without turning into a cynic. Any glimmer of hope, like Bitcoin, should have people jumping and screaming. But the 10^6th fraction of the world, 7000 people, throwing in 2k USD on average, would close in on current Bitcoin market cap. There's no way Bitcoin is liquid enough to let even 1000 such people jump in invisibly.
So, this rough estimate gives that there are less than 1000 people on the entire damn planet who know what is going on and willing to do the easiest move! (And two of them are relatives of mine, they became Bitcoiners the moment they understood what it is, just like me). What the hell? This is scary!
foreveralone.jpg
You forgot to factor in the people who either just haven't found bitcoin and those who are extremely lost when it comes to computers.So, this rough estimate gives that there are less than 1000 people on the entire damn planet who know what is going on and willing to do the easiest move! (And two of them are relatives of mine, they became Bitcoiners the moment they understood what it is, just like me). What the hell? This is scary!
foreveralone.jpg
Besides that, WAY TO GO!!
Sorry, guys, I believe I meet all the criteria listed above but I like where I live. I think I'll just continue working on turning my existing community into a bitcoin community. (You all are welcome to move to San Antonio, if you wish. 
)
) 
have a law prohibiting the use of fiat currency (punishable by stoning),
But, I like getting stoned
I'm late to the thread. I love this. I still haven't decided where I will live in a few years, and depending on the set of rules you want to live by, this is an option.
I've been planning something similar, and have been wondering when the net offers enough smart people to pull this through. But it's not only about Bitcoin for me, it's about limiting government insanity in general. We must create a place on earth that is not drowning everything in idiotic dynamics. Unpunished corruption, patents + patent ceasefires, tax friction within productive cycles, government stealing and re-distributing funds in arbitrary fashion, hell, I HATE IT. I want to show these people the true power of a modern society, but the system is set up to throw as good as every cheaply available obstacle into my path. (They never throw expensive obstacles, the cheapskates. )
I think of a country that makes only few rules, rules that can be proven or very strongly indicated correct. Then, it makes sure everyone who breaks these rules is hit hard, hard enough to satisfy the requirements from game theory. It is the only functional type of society I know, and the place of my dreams. I believe anybody truly awake should be longing for a place like that. But this is the sad part: exist enough people who are "truly awake" by my definition?
I claim that current BTC price proves that 99.9999% (1-10^-6) of humanity cannot be awake. The lock-downs on free trade are causing damages beyond imagination, hitting everywhere around the world, on a scope a sane mind cannot grasp without turning into a cynic. Any glimmer of hope, like Bitcoin, should have people jumping and screaming. But the 10^6th fraction of the world, 7000 people, throwing in 2k USD on average, would close in on current Bitcoin market cap. There's no way Bitcoin is liquid enough to let even 1000 such people jump in invisibly.
So, this rough estimate gives that there are less than 1000 people on the entire damn planet who know what is going on and willing to do the easiest move! (And two of them are relatives of mine, they became Bitcoiners the moment they understood what it is, just like me). What the hell? This is scary!
foreveralone.jpg
This might be an issue on founding a super-country; if you can scoop up a whopping 1% of people who understand the need for the project (because the rest is not mobile right away), you may be left with just five guys who know what they actually want to achieve. And then there's a group of a thousand who came along for random reasons. That majority would most likely take control of the project, making it drift back into the bad dynamics we see everywhere.
The negative thinking aside, we have to try at least the first step. If I was to propose a set of rules or guidelines to try prevent degeneration from the start, is there anyone around who would seriously consider them? I'll warn you ahead of time, they will turn out heavy. Forget about it if you want law exceptions for children or drunks, categorically limit information transmission (yes, that includes child pornography), like patents, or want any lobby including religion influencing the result. A compromise does not work, so unless people understand the necessity, I can skip writing a text nobody cares about.
In case anyone still doubts it, I am serious. I think a new country can be built from scratch that easily outperforms anything mankind has seen. All we need is the correct set of rules, a qualified population of 1~10k, a patch of land with trade access, enough know-how and funds to bring up basic infrastructure, and an international payment method not blocked by trade barriers (heh, guess what! ).
One smooth path to create this is forming an organization that starts constructing the country once a certain amount of members is reached, and remains mostly digital until then.
Sorry for the wall of text. I had discussions surrounding this topic for years; it's difficult to stop flooding. I already cut out half the post.
I've been planning something similar, and have been wondering when the net offers enough smart people to pull this through. But it's not only about Bitcoin for me, it's about limiting government insanity in general. We must create a place on earth that is not drowning everything in idiotic dynamics. Unpunished corruption, patents + patent ceasefires, tax friction within productive cycles, government stealing and re-distributing funds in arbitrary fashion, hell, I HATE IT. I want to show these people the true power of a modern society, but the system is set up to throw as good as every cheaply available obstacle into my path. (They never throw expensive obstacles, the cheapskates.
)I think of a country that makes only few rules, rules that can be proven or very strongly indicated correct. Then, it makes sure everyone who breaks these rules is hit hard, hard enough to satisfy the requirements from game theory. It is the only functional type of society I know, and the place of my dreams. I believe anybody truly awake should be longing for a place like that. But this is the sad part: exist enough people who are "truly awake" by my definition?
I claim that current BTC price proves that 99.9999% (1-10^-6) of humanity cannot be awake. The lock-downs on free trade are causing damages beyond imagination, hitting everywhere around the world, on a scope a sane mind cannot grasp without turning into a cynic. Any glimmer of hope, like Bitcoin, should have people jumping and screaming. But the 10^6th fraction of the world, 7000 people, throwing in 2k USD on average, would close in on current Bitcoin market cap. There's no way Bitcoin is liquid enough to let even 1000 such people jump in invisibly.
So, this rough estimate gives that there are less than 1000 people on the entire damn planet who know what is going on and willing to do the easiest move! (And two of them are relatives of mine, they became Bitcoiners the moment they understood what it is, just like me). What the hell? This is scary!
foreveralone.jpg
This might be an issue on founding a super-country; if you can scoop up a whopping 1% of people who understand the need for the project (because the rest is not mobile right away), you may be left with just five guys who know what they actually want to achieve. And then there's a group of a thousand who came along for random reasons. That majority would most likely take control of the project, making it drift back into the bad dynamics we see everywhere.
The negative thinking aside, we have to try at least the first step. If I was to propose a set of rules or guidelines to try prevent degeneration from the start, is there anyone around who would seriously consider them? I'll warn you ahead of time, they will turn out heavy. Forget about it if you want law exceptions for children or drunks, categorically limit information transmission (yes, that includes child pornography), like patents, or want any lobby including religion influencing the result. A compromise does not work, so unless people understand the necessity, I can skip writing a text nobody cares about.
In case anyone still doubts it, I am serious. I think a new country can be built from scratch that easily outperforms anything mankind has seen. All we need is the correct set of rules, a qualified population of 1~10k, a patch of land with trade access, enough know-how and funds to bring up basic infrastructure, and an international payment method not blocked by trade barriers (heh, guess what!
).One smooth path to create this is forming an organization that starts constructing the country once a certain amount of members is reached, and remains mostly digital until then.
Sorry for the wall of text. I had discussions surrounding this topic for years; it's difficult to stop flooding. I already cut out half the post.
Maybe on an island...
It Bitcoin hits $1000, I will try to attract a small group of freedom-loving Bitcoiners to buy an island that's big enough for us all, and on which we can install high-speed internet.
1. Register Bitcoin as a religion.
2. Say taxes are against scripture.
3.
?
4. PROFIT
2. Say taxes are against scripture.
3.
?4. PROFIT
Why do I get the feeling you're one of those idiots who believes that the Amish don't pay taxes?
Who does the boring manual labor? We're mostly nerds, yes?
I've already got a non-digital ripple-esque network up here. Two of my buddies work with gold, silver, and everything else. We trade materials, knowledge, and labour, solving crazy problems everyday that challenge everything you learned in grade school. We nerds grow food in greenhouses, go out hunting, fishing, all while connected via radio relay, sat link, using portable solar, hydro, and diesel power. The capital has a fascinating mix of rustic and ultra-modern in the space-station sort of way. The frontiers are a nerd paradise as long as you don't mind using your two feet and two hands. It's not for the lazy, but perfect for the engineer.
Maybe once I pay off my USD debts... I'm getting there. It would have to be someplace warm or I'd never convince my wife.
Who does the boring manual labor? We're mostly nerds, yes?
Who does the boring manual labor? We're mostly nerds, yes?
Why does it have to be rural/rustic? We have a bunch of bitcoins, we just trade them for what we want. This could be just as easily set up by picking a block in a major city and having everybody trade between themselves using bitcoins.
Because everything you can buy is bought with dollars/euros. There just isn't a lot of "trading between themselves" if you stay modern, so to speak. How often do you trade with your neighbours?
I propose Greenland. Independent nation, plenty of fresh water, more guns than fingers to shoot, low taxes, cheap hydro power, dry clean cool air, fiber optic between N. America and Europe, and more space per inhabitant than anywhere else on the planet (well except for that other big ass ice sheet in the south).
1.) They check Bitcoin everyday or almost every day
check
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
check
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
check
4.) They are generally good and honest people
check
"So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch."
Um, no. I'm not going to live in some small rural community cutting logs by hand and roasting rabbits over a campfire, if I've nearly finished university. If other people would do this I would probably support it, but sure as hell won't join in.
check
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
check
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
check
4.) They are generally good and honest people
check
"So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch."
Um, no. I'm not going to live in some small rural community cutting logs by hand and roasting rabbits over a campfire, if I've nearly finished university. If other people would do this I would probably support it, but sure as hell won't join in.
Lol, in 6 months when you are unable to find a job, you'll be happy moving out there.
1.) They check Bitcoin everyday or almost every day
check
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
check
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
check
4.) They are generally good and honest people
check
"So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch."
Um, no. I'm not going to live in some small rural community cutting logs by hand and roasting rabbits over a campfire, if I've nearly finished university. If other people would do this I would probably support it, but sure as hell won't join in.
check
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
check
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
check
4.) They are generally good and honest people
check
"So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch."
Um, no. I'm not going to live in some small rural community cutting logs by hand and roasting rabbits over a campfire, if I've nearly finished university. If other people would do this I would probably support it, but sure as hell won't join in.
Quote
1.) They check Bitcoin everyday or almost every day
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
4.) They are generally good and honest people
2.) They are invested in Bitcoin both financially and emotionally
3.) They genuinely believe Bitcoin is an improvement upon traditional currency and believe it would be good for society
4.) They are generally good and honest people
1. Guilty
2. Guilty
3. Guilty
4. Guilty
Quote
Additionally, I would add that these members likely have a wide variety of talents and abilities as a group.
Skills test for admission is a must.
Quote
So, how about all the people on this forum who meet these criteria liquidate all of their assets, collect their money, join together, and build their own community from scratch. The cash from their "real world" lives could be used to establish rudimentary housing and infrastructure. Then, Bitcoin would be used exclusively within this community. Community members would work to collect food, keep the community area clean, sell basic products/services, etc.
Ok, so we need the die hard libertarians and hippies to come together. This may be a problem. Die hard property rights types and communal living, statist types coming together. Ok, well.. At least there'd be no welfare, right? Everyone must do something.
Quote
While the community will (naturally) have a law prohibiting the use of fiat currency (punishable by stoning), there will be an exception in the case of paying the electric bill. How else ya gonna mine?
Solar and methane reclamation from the sewer pits for cooking gas and generator gas.
Quote
If you ever wanted to see the price of Bitcoin increase, this would be chance of a lifetime! With Bitcoin being the only legal means of acquiring goods and services, Bitcoin would be practically virtually (get it?) priceless!
Can we all buy russian wives with Bitcoin?
Quote
Er...but what about the exchange rate?
You mean...no more fun on the exchanges? No more rally cries whiledawning donning viking hats and blowing kazoos, the smell of titanium in the air?
You mean...no more fun on the exchanges? No more rally cries while
We'll have our own block chain and people can take turns adjusting the BTC/WOOD, BTC/FOOD and other pairs based on supply and demand.
Quote
Now I'm all confused. A community without Gox Live? Fuck it.
Wait, you're joking?
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