What about those bitcoins that are LOST? - page 2.

Mickeyb

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Quote from: amaclin on July 15, 2015, 01:22:21 AM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

No reason to do it.
But majority can change consensus rules any time.

Yes, lost coins are lost coins. Nothing you can do about it. Bitcoin is divisible to 8 places so there is plenty for everyone. Why we wouldn't be talking in satoshis term one day, not in Bitcoin terms. 1 satoshi can be worth $1 and everybody would be happy.

Because of this above, I don't think there will be consensus rules about changing the final supply. I wouldn't like that the total supply changes.

Now what will future bring us, that nobody knows!

Bitware

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Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

Define "really lost".

Prove they are "really lost" coins.

If you can do that, then we can talk about regenerating them.

HINT: No one can prove coins are lost or stolen. All they can do is claim they are lost or stolen.

This is the real world where even the best people lie, cheat and steal.

Forget about the alleged "lost" coins. Worst case scenario is they make the rest of the coins worth more.

jacktheking

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Quote from: zebedee on July 25, 2015, 06:52:54 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on July 15, 2015, 10:35:41 AM

i don't know if this is what he meant or even this was in his mind when he posted the top comment but there is an address that only eats bitcoins and in fact destroys them:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

this address is without private keys so if you send to that address the coins will be lost forever!

Not true at all. That address is almost certain, like any address, to have quadrillions upon quadrillions of private keys that can spend from it.

Your problem is to find just one. Go!

Yes. It's possible for people to find a private key that is associate with the Bitcoin address (1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE).

Let me try to brute-force the private key using Vanitygen on my ~350 Kkey/s computer..

http://imgs.us/image/sj

Alright. More than ... Human lifetime to get it.

smith coins

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If we lost the private key it is near to impossible to bet that will find it in future to try changing the letters.

zebedee

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on July 16, 2015, 03:52:45 AM

Quote from: ausbit on July 15, 2015, 11:14:29 AM

Exactly the address i was thinking about, thank you Herbert2020

Now when you say this address has no private keys what do you mean.
Was this address created without private keys? (If even possible)
Or were the private keys just destroyed to this address, if so who did and or approved this?

creating an address with that many custom characters (BitcoinEaterAddressDontSend) is impossible.

So I'm imagining the existence of that address? Please don't pontificate on things you don't understand.

zebedee

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on July 15, 2015, 10:35:41 AM

i don't know if this is what he meant or even this was in his mind when he posted the top comment but there is an address that only eats bitcoins and in fact destroys them:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE

this address is without private keys so if you send to that address the coins will be lost forever!

Not true at all. That address is almost certain, like any address, to have quadrillions upon quadrillions of private keys that can spend from it.

Your problem is to find just one. Go!

pooya87

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Quote from: b-trading on July 23, 2015, 01:09:37 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 15, 2015, 02:43:32 AM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

you need not worry about the future when the 21 million cap is reached because it is far far away.

also the price of bitcoin will determine whether the amount of available bitcoin is enough or not, besides there is not just 21 mil BTC there is much more because you have to consider every digit after the point too. i mean 1 satoshi (1e-8BTC) is usable and have value.

additionally 1 satoshi can be broken down into smaller units if needs be, with a simple change in the code.

If 1 satoshi can be broke down, my question is how many the maximum it can be broken, what i mean is how many the maximum digit of the point behind 1 satoshi if we really need to do that ( adding digit point)

your question is so technical and i am not exactly an expert in computer language or programming but i think it depends on the variable that you are using , for example decimal can hold 28-29 significant digits with range of (-7.9 x 10^28 to 7.9 x 10^28) / (10^0 to ^28) in c#
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/364x0z75.aspx

but i guess you can deal with any number that requires more digits in a different way like breaking it down into smaller parts and then deal with it.

CoinCidental

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Quote from: bitllionaire on July 23, 2015, 06:21:56 PM

Quote from: dodgecharger on July 23, 2015, 06:04:09 PM

it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

Only way to determine it,it's by means of news or reports from people who lost it

When I found out about BTC a few years ago I started buying Because I knew the potential as soon as I saw it

I told a few friends about it and a couple of them bought a few, they lost Interst in it and didn't bother to keep their wallets safe or backed up

They didn't have much but those few BTC are surely lost because there is no copy of the wallet file and they don't know the password either so even if they had it they couldn't use the coins - double fucked for lack of a better word

They had to watch the epic rise to $1200+ knowing they had coins that cost between $6-10.....im sure there have been much larger losses and thefts but these are just a couple I know personally

bitllionaire

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Quote from: dodgecharger on July 23, 2015, 06:04:09 PM

it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

Only way to determine it,it's by means of news or reports from people who lost it

dodgecharger

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it seems to be a very difficult thing to verify/determine with certainty. Because Bitcoin is divisible into much smaller units, I don't think that "lost Bitcoin" will really be at the forefront of Bitcoin-related issues any time soon.

b-trading

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 15, 2015, 02:43:32 AM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

you need not worry about the future when the 21 million cap is reached because it is far far away.

also the price of bitcoin will determine whether the amount of available bitcoin is enough or not, besides there is not just 21 mil BTC there is much more because you have to consider every digit after the point too. i mean 1 satoshi (1e-8BTC) is usable and have value.

additionally 1 satoshi can be broken down into smaller units if needs be, with a simple change in the code.

If 1 satoshi can be broke down, my question is how many the maximum it can be broken, what i mean is how many the maximum digit of the point behind 1 satoshi if we really need to do that ( adding digit point)

Jhacker

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Quote from: RodeoX on July 16, 2015, 09:08:39 AM

Quote from: Jhacker on July 16, 2015, 06:31:29 AM

The question I have is if it is completely reasonable for BTC to reach $1 million (and I believe it is), why is the price so low? Banks, institutions, investors, hedge funds, venture capital, etc. should be buying up BTC like there's no tomorrow. I guess they just think it's still too risky? But plenty of businesses are already accepting and using BTC. We are long past proof of concept. The only possible tweaks that still need to occur are in security (exchanges & business, not the network itself) and ease of use.

My guess would be that your theory is spot on. We talk about super high values for bitcoin, but banks and hedge funds are very rational actors and are far more interested in a sure fire 2% bond than an extremely risky unknown currency asset. As much as I believe in bitcoin I would not vote to include it in a managed portfolio if I were on the board. Perhaps I could be convinced to go 0.1%, but anything else could be argued to be a failure of fiduciary responsibility. If it tanks, the whole board could be sued for this.

Hmm... you'd think though that some of the less risk averse guys like VCs or say a Donald Trump would see an obvious opportunity here. Buy up a substantial amount of bitcoins - say 4 million, which is a fifth of the total. It would cost Trump $1 billion out of his $10 billion. As long as bitcoin continues to be adopted, this will eventually be worth an astronomical amount. Huge risk, huge reward, but you'd think there would be some bored billionaires out there who would be VERY interested.

amaclin

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Quote from: roadbits on July 19, 2015, 07:32:15 PM

It could also happen just with a general consensus democratically, but that is also unlikely since the 21M limit is held as a pretty core belief by most Bitcoin users currently.

unlikely for whom?
for you or for majority?

roadbits

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Quote from: CoinCidental on July 17, 2015, 06:53:16 PM

Quote from: jt byte on July 16, 2015, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

At the moment, not. but It's just a consensus thing, and could "easily " be changed.

The divisibility of Bitcoins is how the lost coins problem is handled.
In short the money supply can be expanded by having the value of Bitcoin increase such that people will be urged to spend/sell to those the increasing demand.

I would NEVER agree to the 21M cap being raised and neither would anyone else who currently owns any btc
as it would signifigantlly devalue any benefits of being an early adopter and believer in this technology

To raise the cap to something like 21Billion for the saker of argument would make every coin worth 10 times less
how would the winklevoss twins and other large holders feel about that ? consensus lol ......i doubt it

people have also invested x amount because there will be a signifigant reward halving in 2016 and and the next one after that
when a steep rise in value is predicted ,to start monkeying arounnd with the coin supply now would just cause people to lose faith all together
since thats equivalent to irresponsible governments printing cash from fresh air now etc etc

It could also happen just with a general consensus democratically, but that is also unlikely since the 21M limit is held as a pretty core belief by most Bitcoin users currently.

CoinCidental

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Quote from: jt byte on July 16, 2015, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

At the moment, not. but It's just a consensus thing, and could "easily " be changed.

The divisibility of Bitcoins is how the lost coins problem is handled.
In short the money supply can be expanded by having the value of Bitcoin increase such that people will be urged to spend/sell to those the increasing demand.

I would NEVER agree to the 21M cap being raised and neither would anyone else who currently owns any btc
as it would signifigantlly devalue any benefits of being an early adopter and believer in this technology

To raise the cap to something like 21Billion for the saker of argument would make every coin worth 10 times less
how would the winklevoss twins and other large holders feel about that ? consensus lol ......i doubt it

people have also invested x amount because there will be a signifigant reward halving in 2016 and and the next one after that
when a steep rise in value is predicted ,to start monkeying arounnd with the coin supply now would just cause people to lose faith all together
since thats equivalent to irresponsible governments printing cash from fresh air now etc etc

jt byte

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Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

At the moment, not. but It's just a consensus thing, and could "easily " be changed.

The divisibility of Bitcoins is how the lost coins problem is handled.
In short the money supply can be expanded by having the value of Bitcoin increase such that people will be urged to spend/sell to those the increasing demand.

mattiadeabtc

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Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 01:09:41 AM

And I mean really, really lost.
A lot of people can't remember their passwords after 4 minutes since they set it up.
But apart this, there's several ways bitcoins can get lost, like in example if you have a wallet on a USB key and this breaks and you have no cold backup.

This will inevitably bring, in the future, to less than those 21 million cap.
And they WILL keep going down.

Is there a plan to reintegrate them?

the bitcoin lost forever do nothing but increase the rarity 'of those remaining, since you can use the satoshi, do not see why should be reinstated

ausbit

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Maybe OP would be interested in this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1097562.0;topicseen

RodeoX

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Quote from: Jhacker on July 16, 2015, 06:31:29 AM

The question I have is if it is completely reasonable for BTC to reach $1 million (and I believe it is), why is the price so low? Banks, institutions, investors, hedge funds, venture capital, etc. should be buying up BTC like there's no tomorrow. I guess they just think it's still too risky? But plenty of businesses are already accepting and using BTC. We are long past proof of concept. The only possible tweaks that still need to occur are in security (exchanges & business, not the network itself) and ease of use.

My guess would be that your theory is spot on. We talk about super high values for bitcoin, but banks and hedge funds are very rational actors and are far more interested in a sure fire 2% bond than an extremely risky unknown currency asset. As much as I believe in bitcoin I would not vote to include it in a managed portfolio if I were on the board. Perhaps I could be convinced to go 0.1%, but anything else could be argued to be a failure of fiduciary responsibility. If it tanks, the whole board could be sued for this.

Jhacker

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Quote from: gripflierGO on July 15, 2015, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 03:22:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 15, 2015, 03:09:10 AM

Quote from: GODLIKE on July 15, 2015, 03:05:11 AM

Quote from: mindrust on July 15, 2015, 02:59:54 AM

Lost Bitcoins is a good thing actually. They make your unlost bitcoins more valuable. (As long as the lost ones aren't yours of course)

I don't think so: nobody knows anybody has lost his coins, there's no way to know it, apart the case I exposed in the previous post, or by admission of the user himself, which can be fraudulent.
AT THE MOMENT the value of your coins is UNAFFECTED by lost coins.
In the future, when we'll hit the wall, THEN this may affect it, as less and less coins will be in circulation.

i presume that the impact would be very low on the market, do not expect an huge rise in demand only because 30% of coins are lost, people simply will buy less one whole btc and more satoshi or bits

Not like that.
In a possible future that we all are hoping, Bitcoins will be a used everywhere by everyone.
There will actually be scarcity of them.
People won't BUY bitcoins: they will USE them and EARN them with their work (until AI and robotics will take all of that...).

Yeah but it will take time for the scarcity as the majority of the population is not aware about the bitcoins but in future when bitcoin gets into the mainstream people would not be able to buy them but those who will be holding great number of bitcoins can earn a good profit by selling it.

If it doesn't already exist, someone needs to invent an easy way to top up smartphone wallets directly from your back account. It seems to me that if this were as easy as putting in the amount you wanted to transfer to your wallet, adoption would happen quickly.

Topic: What about those bitcoins that are LOST? - page 2. (Read 3820 times)