What according to you is definition of ' Financial Freedom'? - page 3.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:37:18 AM

I started digging it..and now I ultimately think it as psywar waged by developed countries.

This does not follow as the war has already been won by the "developed" countries. They already control the rules and were the gatekeepers before bitcoin was created. All bitcoin does is sidesteps their sovereignty. If you are insinuating that the large stakeholders are part of the wealthy controlling elite furthering their will against the third world you are factually wrong as many of the early bitcoin adopters are Nouveau riche and come from anarchist /libertarian backgrounds. You don't have to use bitcoin if you think the early stakeholders are unfairly from "developed" countries, why don't you create indiacoin and have stakeholders from India adopt it instead?

The beauty of Bitcoin is that it is open source and free. Unlike with fiat, you are free to participate or not, and fork it at any moment you choose to.

BTCIndia

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vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:26:01 AM

Quote from: Elwar on November 18, 2014, 08:08:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime.

You're free to murder and steal from people, but that encroaches on other people's freedom and you should be punished fairly for it as you've likely given up your own freedom in doing so.

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:10:01 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

I'm sorry for my english skills. I'll rephrase again:

If you deceive someone into doing something by exploiting their weakness (with your intelligence) be defined as crime?

It those can de categorized as crime then most important question-- how can such crime can be proved to be crime?

Well that depends. If you challenge someone to a bet at a chess match and they lose then fair enough, but if you take advantage of someone by defrauding them then that's a crime. I don't understand the second sentence.

Beautiful thought!
I've accepted challenge almost 1 year ago. Only problem with camel, knight, elephant etc is all they can see is their square not chess board, not two players, not bet between two players. Nevermind!

Solider deserves solider.
And economic solider deserves economic solider.

BTCIndia

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vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on November 18, 2014, 08:26:27 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:07:23 AM

Psychological forces that feeds on my weakness:
1. Greed- In any form material or knowledge
2. Contribution: We all wish to contribute in one or other way. No matter tiny judgement we pass but we wish to contribute what if "that's weakness" and can be exploited? Thinking about thousand of charity company and people donating there.
3. Change: We all believe our learning is good, better or best and we wish to bring change in society according to our perception.

You are assuming those are weaknesses. If you think these psychological forces are preventing your freedom than you are abstracting freedom to such a degree it becomes impractical.

Yes, reality isn't fair and some people a born with greater talents and skills, some are born in better environments, and some happen to get lucky with circumstances within their life.

This is unavoidable, and many of the solutions to create a more egalitarian society actually have a negative outcome.

Do you have a specific example instead of generalizing so we can discuss specifics as to what you are referring to.

Its not that, I don't wish to explain or hide from you. You might be well aware of fact that sub-concious mind knows more and better than concious mind. And my sub-concious mind at very first meeting with Bitcoin gave hint that--this is more that what it claims to be. I started digging it..and now I ultimately think it as psywar waged by developed countries. Let it be! I need to understand myself better and crystallize concepts before raising question and having arguments.

Sincere apologies!

Elwar

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To answer OP's question of what is 'Financial Freedom':

Financial freedom is the ability to trade among others in a voluntary way.

Bitcoin allows such freedom to exist.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:10:01 AM

If you deceive someone into doing something by exploiting their weakness (with your intelligence) be defined as crime?

If someone with higher intelligence negotiates a contract or agreement with someone with lower intelligence and they do not lie or misrepresent the service/product than the less educated person should have the right and freedom to make that decision even if it isn't in their best interests. It should not be considered a crime but this incident does not exist within a vacuum as there will be a certain degree of social justice by others against the asshole that took advantage of the helpless idiot.

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:33:13 AM

So Bitcoin evangelist must stop their marketing campaign of 'selling freedom in form of financial tool'. We already have our needed freedom.

I still have no idea what you are talking about . Give us some specific examples.

BTCIndia

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vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: vegetabledude on November 18, 2014, 07:57:30 AM

Freedom is a high mountain that we can never reach top of it. Today when we say "freedom" we mean the path which goes to that mountain.
We can't get freedom together but we can get closer. If theres a one man on world without other living beings(animals,bugs,humans) that man is free.
So its pointless to define what is freedom for everyone. Everyone has their own freedom definition.

So Bitcoin evangelist must stop their marketing campaign of 'selling freedom in form of financial tool'. We already have our needed freedom.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: Sutters Mill on November 18, 2014, 08:29:03 AM

Quote from: Elwar on November 18, 2014, 08:24:48 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:13:55 AM

LOL! Law is circumference and what happends beyond that is crime and freedom forms core of that circle and you say it has nothing to do. Confused!
If Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime then, freedom has no connection with finance also. Contemplate it! Money curbs freedom more than anything else.

Bitcoin is not FREEDOM Q.E.D

I can smoke marijuana and that would be considered a crime as it is against the law. A police officer can exert force against someone smoking marijuana because it is a crime. This is not freedom.

That's why the laws need an overhaul. Every rational person knows smoking marijuana shouldn't be a crime and nobody should be arrested for any victimless 'crime'. You can't punish people for something that doesn't hurt anyone else.

Shifting the seats on the Titanic make no difference.

Most people do not understand freedom and are happy being slaves.

Sutters Mill

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Cryptophile at large

Quote from: Elwar on November 18, 2014, 08:24:48 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:13:55 AM

LOL! Law is circumference and what happends beyond that is crime and freedom forms core of that circle and you say it has nothing to do. Confused!
If Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime then, freedom has no connection with finance also. Contemplate it! Money curbs freedom more than anything else.

Bitcoin is not FREEDOM Q.E.D

I can smoke marijuana and that would be considered a crime as it is against the law. A police officer can exert force against someone smoking marijuana because it is a crime. This is not freedom.

That's why the laws need an overhaul. Every rational person knows smoking marijuana shouldn't be a crime and nobody should be arrested for any victimless 'crime'. You can't punish people for something that doesn't hurt anyone else.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:07:23 AM

Psychological forces that feeds on my weakness:
1. Greed- In any form material or knowledge
2. Contribution: We all wish to contribute in one or other way. No matter tiny judgement we pass but we wish to contribute what if "that's weakness" and can be exploited? Thinking about thousand of charity company and people donating there.
3. Change: We all believe our learning is good, better or best and we wish to bring change in society according to our perception.

You are assuming those are weaknesses. If you think these psychological forces are preventing your freedom than you are abstracting freedom to such a degree it becomes impractical.

Yes, reality isn't fair and some people a born with greater talents and skills, some are born in better environments, and some happen to get lucky with circumstances within their life.

This is unavoidable, and many of the solutions to create a more egalitarian society actually have a negative outcome.

Do you have a specific example instead of generalizing so we can discuss specifics as to what you are referring to.

Rampton

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Quote from: Elwar on November 18, 2014, 08:08:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime.

You're free to murder and steal from people, but that encroaches on other people's freedom and you should be punished fairly for it as you've likely given up your own freedom in doing so.

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:10:01 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

I'm sorry for my english skills. I'll rephrase again:

If you deceive someone into doing something by exploiting their weakness (with your intelligence) be defined as crime?

It those can de categorized as crime then most important question-- how can such crime can be proved to be crime?

Well that depends. If you challenge someone to a bet at a chess match and they lose then fair enough, but if you take advantage of someone by defrauding them then that's a crime. I don't understand the second sentence.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 08:13:55 AM

LOL! Law is circumference and what happends beyond that is crime and freedom forms core of that circle and you say it has nothing to do. Confused!
If Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime then, freedom has no connection with finance also. Contemplate it! Money curbs freedom more than anything else.

Bitcoin is not FREEDOM Q.E.D

I can smoke marijuana and that would be considered a crime as it is against the law. A police officer can exert force against someone smoking marijuana because it is a crime. This is not freedom.

Quote

If Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime then, freedom has no connection with finance also

You can have finances without law.

franky1

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freedom= no permission

BTCIndia

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: Elwar on November 18, 2014, 08:08:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime.

LOL! Law is circumference and what happends beyond that is crime and freedom forms core of that circle and you say it has nothing to do. Confused!
If Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime then, freedom has no connection with finance also. Contemplate it! Money curbs freedom more than anything else.

Bitcoin is not FREEDOM Q.E.D

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

In reality we are all free to do whatever we want.

And some people choose to use that freedom to oppress others because they can (or because they think it is right, or to get more power).

It all comes down to who has the most power. The most powerful can do whatever they want but are also often not free because in order to maintain that power they have to restrain themselves for fear of losing that power. This is how it has been throughout history.

BTCIndia

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

I'm sorry for my english skills. I'll rephrase again:

If you deceive someone into doing something by exploiting their weakness (with your intelligence) be defined as crime?

It those can de categorized as crime then most important question-- how can such crime can be proved to be crime?

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 08:00:03 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

Freedom has nothing to do with law/crime.

BTCIndia

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

vini, vedi, no vici.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on November 18, 2014, 07:57:15 AM

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:48:47 AM

"Free from initiation of force."

What if that force feeds based on my weakness? What is that force is targeted specially for specific "IQ" and target audience? Because once they're conquered rest would be cake walk.

Can psychological forces be defined as intrusion of freedom?

We do not exist in a state of absolute freedom and wishing for such is an effort in futility. We are constrained by the laws of nature and biology.

The Non Aggression Principle does indeed cover psychological coercion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercion

Which has specific legal and philosophical definitions.

You will have to be more specific with your questions and define what you mean by "psychological forces" with an example.

Psychological forces that feeds on my weakness:
1. Greed- In any form material or knowledge
2. Contribution: We all wish to contribute in one or other way. No matter tiny judgement we pass but we wish to contribute what if "that's weakness" and can be exploited? Thinking about thousand of charity company and people donating there.
3. Change: We all believe our learning is good, better or best and we wish to bring change in society according to our perception.

Rampton

hero member

Activity: 525

Merit: 500

Quote from: BTCIndia on November 18, 2014, 07:55:10 AM

Quote from: Rampton on November 18, 2014, 07:32:55 AM

Freedom is the ability to do whatever the hell you want so long as it doesn't physically hurt or criminally deprive anyone else of wealth or property.

Can deceiving someone into doing something based on their weakness your with one's intelligence can be defined as crime?

Wut? Can you rephrase that? Are you on about defrauding someone out of money? If so, then yes that is a crime. You've deprived them of wealth via criminal dishonesty.

Sutters Mill

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Activity: 976

Merit: 575

Cryptophile at large

Bitcoin is freedom from a corrupt and unfair monetary system. Clearly the money should not be issued by those who can just print more of their own volition.

vegetabledude

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Merit: 0

Freedom is a high mountain that we can never reach top of it. Today when we say "freedom" we mean the path which goes to that mountain.
We can't get freedom together but we can get closer. If theres a one man on world without other living beings(animals,bugs,humans) that man is free.
So its pointless to define what is freedom for everyone. Everyone has their own freedom definition.

Topic: What according to you is definition of ' Financial Freedom'? - page 3. (Read 7609 times)