What are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? - page 2.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:49:17 AM

You said "these people". You didn't say "some" of these and you do admit you think it is most of them. I wonder how you know that, how Trump knows that. Have you asked them, have you conducted a sociological research or is it just plain hatered and prejudice.

Yes? And? I am responsible for YOUR generalizations now? As if I don't explicitly say i don't mean all it should be assumed. No, I don't have to account for your interpretations of my words, just my words.

It is really simple. The places they come from have high rates of crime, poor education systems, poor medical systems, etc. IE they are pretty much guaranteed to be a liability. That is why we have a legal process for legally immigrating here. You keep screaming about racism if you like, your baseless infantile character attacks do not shame me, they shame you.

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 08:53:51 AM

NIGHT TIME JOKE MEN ALL AGREE: ORANGEMAN BAD

ooo The Daily Show! There is a reputable source for you.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

Yeah, diseases are just a conspiracy theory right?

Moloch

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 722

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on October 31, 2018, 08:42:26 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

If it was only smallpox I wouldn't be so worried. According to Fox News, they are carrying smallpox, leprosy, HIV, measles, pertussis, rubella, rabies, hepatitis A, influenza, tuberculosis, shigellosis, and syphilis (yes, they said all this, I queued the linked video)... I'm not sure how they are going to survive another 2 months on foot trekking through Mexico with all that

Trump and Fox News’s Caravan Hysteria Reaches a Fever Pitch | The Daily Show (time = 5:58)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqj1C9G3GBw&t=5m58s

dogtana

member

Activity: 845

Merit: 56

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:10:44 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Not sure where I said every single person, but still willing to bet the vast majority of them. Leftists groups advertise the free stuff to them in their home country to try to import voters here. It is really irrelevant. Wanting a job is not a legal reason to claim asylum, neither is being poor or living in a high crime country. They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

You said "these people". You didn't say "some" of these and you do admit you think it is most of them. I wonder how you know that, how Trump knows that. Have you asked them, have you conducted a sociological research or is it just plain hatered and prejudice.

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1757

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:39:16 AM

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Don't forget smallpox, it would be such a shame if the caravan was able to bring that back into the US eh? That might threaten hundreds of millions of Americans!

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 08:30:20 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

[snip]
They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

Some of them already applied for asylum... the average approval rate is 76%, with the last caravan which arrived in April being 93% acceptance

Quote from: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/26/asylum-explained-can-trump-shut-down-process-migrant-caravan/1775728002/

Trump and many GOP candidates have claimed that they are trying to illegally enter the country. But a look at the most recent caravan, which reached the U.S. border in April, paints a very different picture.

According to data and congressional testimony from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services officials, 122 members of that caravan were caught trying to illegally enter the country. But 401 members of the caravan presented themselves at ports of entry and requested asylum.

Federal officials interviewed those asylum-seekers and found 374 of them, or 93 percent, passed their initial "credible fear" test. That’s higher than the 76 percent approval rate that all asylum-seekers received in fiscal year 2018, according to Citizenship and Immigration Services data.

You believe what you want. Past behavior does not dictate future results, even if that is all accurate, and I doubt it.

None of that changes the fact that The President of The United States has a VERY BROAD authority under the constitution and otherwise to limit immigration of any kind if he feels it is a threat to national security.

Seeing as terrorism is a big problem, along with potential future conflict with Russia and China, unidentified persons slipping into the country would quite clearly constitute a threat to national security, among other things.

Moloch

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 722

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:18:23 AM

[propaganda snipped]
They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

There is no law which states a refugee in need of asylum must go to the nearest available country. Some of them already applied for asylum here... the average approval rate is 76%, with the last caravan which arrived in April being 93% acceptance

Quote from: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/26/asylum-explained-can-trump-shut-down-process-migrant-caravan/1775728002/

Trump and many GOP candidates have claimed that they are trying to illegally enter the country. But a look at the most recent caravan, which reached the U.S. border in April, paints a very different picture.

According to data and congressional testimony from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services officials, 122 members of that caravan were caught trying to illegally enter the country. But 401 members of the caravan presented themselves at ports of entry and requested asylum.

Federal officials interviewed those asylum-seekers and found 374 of them, or 93 percent, passed their initial "credible fear" test. That’s higher than the 76 percent approval rate that all asylum-seekers received in fiscal year 2018, according to Citizenship and Immigration Services data.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 08:10:44 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Not sure where I said every single person, but still willing to bet the vast majority of them. Leftists groups advertise the free stuff to them in their home country to try to import voters here. It is really irrelevant. Wanting a job is not a legal reason to claim asylum, neither is being poor or living in a high crime country. They don't have rights to asylum, even if they did, Mexico is a safe harbor country which has offered them asylum. By passing thru Mexico they have no right to claim asylum here, EVEN IF they had a valid claim.

dogtana

member

Activity: 845

Merit: 56

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 08:04:00 AM

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

How are you able to make sweeping generalisation like that? Is there any evidence that every single person is like that? Do you think these people are stupid thinking US is a promise land where everything is given out for free?

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1757

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: TECSHARE on October 31, 2018, 07:41:24 AM

If you notice, being poor and wanting a job is not on that list.

Being poor/wanting a job and being afraid for their lives at home are NOT mutually exclusive...

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 07:54:32 AM

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs.

Nothing. Except these people don't give a shit about the law. They don't want to immigrate legally, which takes years. They want to show up at the borders and be granted hand outs. Tell me, why is it they are going to California and not Texas when the trip is so much longer? Oh right, that's where they have the most handouts. Being poor is not an acceptable legal reason for granting of asylum. Their government is not persecuting them. General high levels of crime don't count either.

Some more real reasons to stop them:

-rule of law
-stop hostile infiltrators (what is the point of passports?)
-could be human sex traffickers among them using them as cover
-tax burden, both local and Federal
-if we don't stop them more and more will come
-pathogens, legal immigrants go thru a screening process
-lack of respect for our laws by entering illegally, making them criminals

dogtana

member

Activity: 845

Merit: 56

So if they are poor and want a job, what is the problem with that? As far as I know, the US has a process for legal immigration. There are also job openings for "low" ranked jobs that Americans don't want to do. The color of skin doesn't affect ability to do those jobs. The situtation of some of these people may not fit the definition of circumstances to gain refugee status but there are other completely legal ways to enter a country. And with similar values these people will want nothing more than to integrate into American society.

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

Quote from: Moloch on October 31, 2018, 07:28:44 AM

Trump hates colored people and poor people... these are both, so he hates them double

Trump is breaking international law... specifically, The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, also known as the 1951 Refugee Convention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees#Definition_of_refugee

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

I really hate to see Trump destroy international laws... I consider that a crime against humanity

If you notice, being poor and wanting a job is not on that list.

Moloch

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 722

Trump hates colored people and poor people... these are both, so he hates them double

Trump is breaking international law... specifically, The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, also known as the 1951 Refugee Convention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees#Definition_of_refugee

A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.

I really hate to see Trump destroy international laws... I consider that a crime against humanity

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1757

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: dogtana on October 31, 2018, 06:33:44 AM

So what is the real problem here?

It's called political red meat for his racist base. Quite simple really.

Consider the fact that a Fox news commentator claimed the caravan was carrying smallpox...

In case anyone is wondering smallpox was eradicated from the planet almost 40 years ago!!

dogtana

member

Activity: 845

Merit: 56

So a few thousand I assume Christian, hopeful, grateful and wanting to work people want to reach US, a country with a population over 300 milion and a bad system of social aid.

Trump claims many among them are "very bad people", gang members, members of drug cartels etc etc. But gang members, members of drug cartels and criminals usually have better lives than average person in a 3rd world country, so why would they walk so far to a country where they wouldn't be able to conduct their business further?

So what are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? Does he think US has a bad refugee/immivration situation compared to the rest of the world? What bad things will happen to the US? I suppose these people will be looking for "low" ranking jobs that most Americans won't do...

So what is the real problem here?

Topic: What are the real reasons Trump wants to stop the Caravan? - page 2. (Read 495 times)