What can greece central bank do? - page 5.

GreenStox

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Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on July 08, 2015, 06:26:15 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on July 08, 2015, 04:59:44 AM

What I meant is that bitcoin will be the de facto reserve currency of the world, no censorship, no capital controls.

Sure the population is not ready, i dont expect greece to jump on the train tomorrow.

But eventually, it will spread there, people cannot tolerate the government & banking mischiefs much longer, so they want an alternative.

And who is searching, will find it. Just hope google wont ban the bitcoin keyword lol Cheesy

I don't think so google will ban that key word, it brings them a lot of revenue anyway Tongue

Yes, you're correct regarding how Greece won't just readily jump on the train today because its population is not ready for this massive change, and yes amph I also agree with you about how bitcoin's cap isn't serving the right justice, but considering bitcoin as a replacement rather than an alternative is highly ambitious.

Its alternative now, and a replacement tomorrow.

Since bitcoin doesnt have any "legitimacy from banksters" (which it will probably never have nor need), people dont trust it.

Its funny that greeks dont trust banks, yet, they still look for the banksters to tell them what money to use. Roll Eyes

Anyways, i hope people will get smart and do the right choice.

Argwai96

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Quote from: IIOII on July 08, 2015, 08:16:31 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 07, 2015, 12:27:24 AM

Quote from: lihuajkl on July 06, 2015, 10:39:10 PM

Greek economy is in chaos and cant even sustain itself between its spending and incomes. It has no real assets, gold, foreign reserve to backup Drachma's value! How is it possible for them to control the exchange rates?

Greece is still having sizable forex reserves. Their gold reserves are estimated at around 112.5 tonnes, which is worth some €3.88 billion at current bullion prices. Also, they have billions of USD worth of foreign treasury bonds in their reserves. That said, their forex reserves have declined considerably over the years.

They can control the exchange rate by buying/selling Drachma in the forex market.

Why would they even want to use their only valuable assets to control the exchange rate of worthless fiat paper? That makes no sense at all.

The point is that currency devaluation is part of the solution for Greece. Only with a currency that's weaker than the Euro they will be able to compete in international trade.

Drachma was replaced in 2001 so they cant control that, mostly their inflation and reports which are shit, Greece will end the year with a -5% recession if they are lucky.

IIOII

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 07, 2015, 12:27:24 AM

Quote from: lihuajkl on July 06, 2015, 10:39:10 PM

Greek economy is in chaos and cant even sustain itself between its spending and incomes. It has no real assets, gold, foreign reserve to backup Drachma's value! How is it possible for them to control the exchange rates?

Greece is still having sizable forex reserves. Their gold reserves are estimated at around 112.5 tonnes, which is worth some €3.88 billion at current bullion prices. Also, they have billions of USD worth of foreign treasury bonds in their reserves. That said, their forex reserves have declined considerably over the years.

They can control the exchange rate by buying/selling Drachma in the forex market.

Why would they even want to use their only valuable assets to control the exchange rate of worthless fiat paper? That makes no sense at all.

The point is that currency devaluation is part of the solution for Greece. Only with a currency that's weaker than the Euro they will be able to compete in international trade.

greBit

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 08, 2015, 06:40:41 AM

The banks are going to close their doors for good. People will start informal trade with goods like cigarets and baked goods, like they did in WWI and WWII. The government cannot even pay their loans, how will they get money to pay for the printing of the Drachma?
I also think they will get kicked out of the EU, if the other countries get fed up with their antics. Debt collectors will pick out the juicy parts and the people who voted NO will be blamed for all of this. ^Shame on them^

You mean the barter system will take place? What will the people do with the money they are receiving from banks then? if that amount was taken away, then sure a scenario with barter system could be assumed to happen, but when there is already a lot of money still circulating in the market and their financial institutions, there is no chance that the barter system will return. Not now.

Kakmakr

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The banks are going to close their doors for good. People will start informal trade with goods like cigarets and baked goods, like they did in WWI and WWII. The government cannot even pay their loans, how will they get money to pay for the printing of the Drachma?
I also think they will get kicked out of the EU, if the other countries get fed up with their antics. Debt collectors will pick out the juicy parts and the people who voted NO will be blamed for all of this. ^Shame on them^

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: GreenStox on July 08, 2015, 04:59:44 AM

What I meant is that bitcoin will be the de facto reserve currency of the world, no censorship, no capital controls.

Sure the population is not ready, i dont expect greece to jump on the train tomorrow.

But eventually, it will spread there, people cannot tolerate the government & banking mischiefs much longer, so they want an alternative.

And who is searching, will find it. Just hope google wont ban the bitcoin keyword lol Cheesy

I don't think so google will ban that key word, it brings them a lot of revenue anyway Tongue

Yes, you're correct regarding how Greece won't just readily jump on the train today because its population is not ready for this massive change, and yes amph I also agree with you about how bitcoin's cap isn't serving the right justice, but considering bitcoin as a replacement rather than an alternative is highly ambitious.

GreenStox

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What I meant is that bitcoin will be the de facto reserve currency of the world, no censorship, no capital controls.

Sure the population is not ready, i dont expect greece to jump on the train tomorrow.

But eventually, it will spread there, people cannot tolerate the government & banking mischiefs much longer, so they want an alternative.

And who is searching, will find it. Just hope google wont ban the bitcoin keyword lol Cheesy

Amph

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Quote from: greBit on July 07, 2015, 12:26:53 PM

Quote from: Miracal on July 07, 2015, 11:53:11 AM

Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on July 07, 2015, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on July 07, 2015, 07:36:07 AM

Come to papa Bitcoin Grin

I would rather perceive bitcoin as a young lad among the old currencies running along from a hundred years. It seems more advanced, better and idk, younger? Its fast. Its cool. But it lacks experience, so for bitcoin to be a 'papa' of all such currencies, it needs to achieve more qualities than just be a decentralized currency. let the currency grow a few years, its just in its teenage now, give the kid a break Wink

Haha, yes, bitcoins is a young kid playing and finding its way through all the economies. Its preparing itself for the economic throne at the moment, experiencing things and learning, standing patiently at the side sometimes watching economies collapse. When its time need be, it will be the right kind of savior for the right kind of country Wink

I don't understand why everybody expects bitcoin to be savior all the time, man. it is not suposed to be anyone's savior, no country will be rescued by a currency like bitcoin, because I dont think a population will ever be ready to deal with another currency right when their economy is stripped down. I might affect the build of economy even more. Maybe I am just being negative, but I think bitcoin needs much more than what it is to be a global currency some day than what people believe it might be.

because bitcoin has the potential to quadruplicate its market cap in no time, so it is seen as a big store of value, the biggest for now, if you consider its marketcap that does not do it justice

it is better for greece to embrace bitcoin instead of reprinting their garbage dracma all over again, which would be equal at this point to launching a scam coin in the altsection

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Amph on July 07, 2015, 02:10:37 AM

also in the event of a kick from the eurozone, i doubt they will have enough time to re-print all their useless dracma, it isn't a thing that can be done overnight

It seems that the Greek government has already planned its Plan B and Plan C in case of a Grexit. Who knows, the Greek Central Bank might have already started printing Drachma banknotes many weeks ago. In case they don’t have enough Drachma banknotes, they can suspend the pension payments for two or three days.

countryfree

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It's more complicated that most people think. Before the €, central banks of the member states were the only ones with the ability to create and/or print money. Since we have the €, national central banks have transferred this right to the European Central Bank. Legally speaking, the Greek central bank doesn't have any right to create or print Euros, drachmas or any other currency. It just cannot do anything. Only governments can act.

greBit

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Quote from: Miracal on July 07, 2015, 11:53:11 AM

Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on July 07, 2015, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on July 07, 2015, 07:36:07 AM

Come to papa Bitcoin Grin

I would rather perceive bitcoin as a young lad among the old currencies running along from a hundred years. It seems more advanced, better and idk, younger? Its fast. Its cool. But it lacks experience, so for bitcoin to be a 'papa' of all such currencies, it needs to achieve more qualities than just be a decentralized currency. let the currency grow a few years, its just in its teenage now, give the kid a break Wink

Haha, yes, bitcoins is a young kid playing and finding its way through all the economies. Its preparing itself for the economic throne at the moment, experiencing things and learning, standing patiently at the side sometimes watching economies collapse. When its time need be, it will be the right kind of savior for the right kind of country Wink

I don't understand why everybody expects bitcoin to be savior all the time, man. it is not suposed to be anyone's savior, no country will be rescued by a currency like bitcoin, because I dont think a population will ever be ready to deal with another currency right when their economy is stripped down. I might affect the build of economy even more. Maybe I am just being negative, but I think bitcoin needs much more than what it is to be a global currency some day than what people believe it might be.

Miracal

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Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on July 07, 2015, 11:27:40 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on July 07, 2015, 07:36:07 AM

Come to papa Bitcoin Grin

I would rather perceive bitcoin as a young lad among the old currencies running along from a hundred years. It seems more advanced, better and idk, younger? Its fast. Its cool. But it lacks experience, so for bitcoin to be a 'papa' of all such currencies, it needs to achieve more qualities than just be a decentralized currency. let the currency grow a few years, its just in its teenage now, give the kid a break Wink

Haha, yes, bitcoins is a young kid playing and finding its way through all the economies. Its preparing itself for the economic throne at the moment, experiencing things and learning, standing patiently at the side sometimes watching economies collapse. When its time need be, it will be the right kind of savior for the right kind of country Wink

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: GreenStox on July 07, 2015, 07:36:07 AM

Come to papa Bitcoin Grin

I would rather perceive bitcoin as a young lad among the old currencies running along from a hundred years. It seems more advanced, better and idk, younger? Its fast. Its cool. But it lacks experience, so for bitcoin to be a 'papa' of all such currencies, it needs to achieve more qualities than just be a decentralized currency. let the currency grow a few years, its just in its teenage now, give the kid a break Wink

LiteCoinGuy

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Quote from: johnyj on July 05, 2015, 08:13:04 PM

I don't really understand the organization structure of EMU. Does Greece central bank have the right to create euro? Who controls greece central bank? Why couldn't Greece central bank print some Euro to repay their IMF and ECB loan???

print 10 and 20 € notes Cheesy

! (that is true...)

GreenStox

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The GCB all they can do is to stall the collapse.

But mostly i think banks need to increase reserve rates, the bank insureres need to increase their fees, the investment insurance also need to increase its fee.

I think the banking system as we know it is done for. Good, i wont miss it, time to decentralize finance.

Come to papa Bitcoin Grin

Kprawn

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From the banks point of view, it's not to create more fiat money. {Euro or Drachma}

They instituted these withdrawal limits to protect their own liquidity and the interest of the investors. If everyone suddenly withdraw all their money, a bank will go bankrupt.

They are just stalling the inevitable outcome. People lost trust in the banking system and they will withdraw their savings, if they are granted the opportunity to do it. Time will tell, what financial institution they will trust as a alternative. Roll Eyes

Bitcoin will act as a temporary alternative, but it might be a bit risky for the average person, with very little knowledge. {This is where trusted and regulated exchanges can make a difference} Did I say that? Huh

Amph

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Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 06, 2015, 10:34:39 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: IIOII on July 06, 2015, 10:28:00 AM

The Drachma will devalue sharply from day one and adjust downward to the real economic ability of Greece. Assuming a different outcome is delusional.

I don't think so. The Greek central bank will try hard (at least in the initial few weeks) to limit the devaluation of the Drachma (by buying Drachma from the Forex market). But everything will depend upon the volume of Drachma banknotes which they print. I hope that, at least in the beginning, it will be in small volumes. So it won't be that hard for the central bank, to control the exchange rates.

I dont even think they could print drachma because one the rules to join the Eurozone is for the countries to stop printing local notes and destroy their printing presses.

also in the event of a kick from the eurozone, i doubt they will have enough time to re-print all their useless dracma, it isn't a thing that can be done overnight

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: lihuajkl on July 06, 2015, 10:39:10 PM

Greek economy is in chaos and cant even sustain itself between its spending and incomes. It has no real assets, gold, foreign reserve to backup Drachma's value! How is it possible for them to control the exchange rates?

Greece is still having sizable forex reserves. Their gold reserves are estimated at around 112.5 tonnes, which is worth some €3.88 billion at current bullion prices. Also, they have billions of USD worth of foreign treasury bonds in their reserves. That said, their forex reserves have declined considerably over the years.

They can control the exchange rate by buying/selling Drachma in the forex market.

Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 06, 2015, 10:34:39 PM

I dont even think they could print drachma because one the rules to join the Eurozone is for the countries to stop printing local notes and destroy their printing presses.

We are talking about the possibility of Greece getting kicked out of the Eurozone.

Gronthaing

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Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 06, 2015, 10:34:39 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: IIOII on July 06, 2015, 10:28:00 AM

The Drachma will devalue sharply from day one and adjust downward to the real economic ability of Greece. Assuming a different outcome is delusional.

I don't think so. The Greek central bank will try hard (at least in the initial few weeks) to limit the devaluation of the Drachma (by buying Drachma from the Forex market). But everything will depend upon the volume of Drachma banknotes which they print. I hope that, at least in the beginning, it will be in small volumes. So it won't be that hard for the central bank, to control the exchange rates.

I dont even think they could print drachma because one the rules to join the Eurozone is for the countries to stop printing local notes and destroy their printing presses.

Doubt that alone could stop it. But it will take time for them to return to the drachma anyway. Initially they will probably try to negotiate and stay in the euro. They have a stronger hand now after the referendum. In the meantime maybe they will print IOU to keep the economy and the banks going.

lihuajkl

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 10:19:35 PM

Quote from: IIOII on July 06, 2015, 10:28:00 AM

The Drachma will devalue sharply from day one and adjust downward to the real economic ability of Greece. Assuming a different outcome is delusional.

I don't think so. The Greek central bank will try hard (at least in the initial few weeks) to limit the devaluation of the Drachma (by buying Drachma from the Forex market). But everything will depend upon the volume of Drachma banknotes which they print. I hope that, at least in the beginning, it will be in small volumes. So it won't be that hard for the central bank, to control the exchange rates.

Greek economy is in chaos and cant even sustain itself between its spending and incomes. It has no real assets, gold, foreign reserve to backup Drachma's value! How is it possible for them to control the exchange rates?

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