Tuition is very high for some reason or other and keeps increasing the load on students.
This leads to increasing debt and a possible financial bubble in the future so lowering costs and finding ways to increase their cost efficiency by getting students cheap but good content textbooks and not changing them so often seems to be the thing universities need to do or perhaps MOOC.
Topic: what do you think about the way college tuitions keep increasing out of control (Read 2712 times)
August 11, 2014, 02:01:23 AM
August 11, 2014, 01:37:45 AM
In ancient China they had a bureaucracy exam lasting days and would put toilets under the test takers so they could crap whilst simultaneously writing their examination.
That's what credentialism is becoming in the west, in a nutshell. In 20 years you'll need a PhD just to work at McDonalds.
That's what credentialism is becoming in the west, in a nutshell. In 20 years you'll need a PhD just to work at McDonalds.
August 11, 2014, 01:37:02 AM
The salary on professors, dean and president are pretty much out of hand given the economic condition US in right now.
The money has to come from somewhere, and the easiest path is via tuition increase.
The money has to come from somewhere, and the easiest path is via tuition increase.
August 11, 2014, 12:53:53 AM
They need to keep people debt-slave, then create dependent people that will be coward and think they NEED the degree, and so on, so they will charge more.
More to pay = more time to pay = more dependency
Not a surprise
More to pay = more time to pay = more dependency
Not a surprise
August 11, 2014, 12:51:45 AM
I can't help but wonder if the consumers are getting their monies worth, or simply a degree along with debt.
That is a very good question. There are existing numbers to answer it.
One process is as follows:
1. Find the average income in the US of, say, a 30 year old white male with different levels of education, e.g., high school diploma and bachelor's degree.
2. Find the prime lending rate, from public sources.
3. Factor in the unemployment rate and the mortality rate, again from public sources.
4. Assume that people retire at the standard retirement age.
5. Find the income tax burden for each of the incomes.
From these numbers, you can estimate:
1. How much additional income a college degree will yield.
2. How much additional income tax revenue a college degree will yield.
This process is flawed. Someone who is a smart motivated individual is much more likely to finish college than someone who isn't. That doesn't mean that this individual who finished college couldn't have accomplished the same things if he had not gone to college.
A self-selected group that chooses not to go to college cannot act as a control to another self-selected group who chooses to go to college. To have a better comparison, you'd need to actually intervene and randomly select people who will go to college and have a control group that is not allowed to go to college.
For example, someone born with rich parents and doesn't have a high school diploma makes on average more money per year than someone who was born into a poor family, but finished college. This actually says that it's more important to have rich parents than to go to college.
August 10, 2014, 09:09:46 PM
Because it appears that colleges and universities have taken economic theory and applied it. Colleges are businesses selling to student consumers. The colleges are often making a good profit, which of course is used to build buildings, to hire assistant deans and other administrators, while hiring fewer full time professors and more adjuncts. I can't help but wonder if the consumers are getting their monies worth, or simply a degree along with debt.
There's some interesting statistics about adjuncts out there (a lot are being forced to do it for life and to juggle 3-7 courses). If you have a PhD nowadays, you are almost better off becoming a high school teacher in most countries as they get a guaranteed middle class income and a pension. Versus the Adjunct who gets paid per course, has no union nor pension.
August 10, 2014, 07:42:41 PM
I can't help but wonder if the consumers are getting their monies worth, or simply a degree along with debt.
That is a very good question. There are existing numbers to answer it.
One process is as follows:
1. Find the average income in the US of, say, a 30 year old white male with different levels of education, e.g., high school diploma and bachelor's degree.
2. Find the prime lending rate, from public sources.
3. Factor in the unemployment rate and the mortality rate, again from public sources.
4. Assume that people retire at the standard retirement age.
5. Find the income tax burden for each of the incomes.
From these numbers, you can estimate:
1. How much additional income a college degree will yield.
2. How much additional income tax revenue a college degree will yield.
August 10, 2014, 07:35:08 PM
Because it appears that colleges and universities have taken economic theory and applied it. Colleges are businesses selling to student consumers. The colleges are often making a good profit, which of course is used to build buildings, to hire assistant deans and other administrators, while hiring fewer full time professors and more adjuncts. I can't help but wonder if the consumers are getting their monies worth, or simply a degree along with debt.
August 10, 2014, 07:34:14 PM
The problem with college costs is that anyone is able to get a student loan, with virtually no requirements. Even if the student is pursuing a degree with no earnings potential they will still qualify. The result of this is that students do not take price into consideration when choosing a school as they can certainly borrow money in order to attend. Another issue is the fact that colleges are pressured to be "diverse" so they offer scholarships to students who are part of a "minority" even though they are not deserving of them. This also increases the pressure of the price of tuition.
There actually are more safeguards than that. The default rate of the institution is considered. Institutions with high default rates lose their ability to receive funds.
August 10, 2014, 07:22:48 PM
Corporations can get a discharge through chapter 11, but they have to effectively liquidate all of their property to do it. Whereas an individual in a chapter 11 just has to devote disposable income to a plan in order to get a discharge.
An individual can only shield so much wealth. I think the amount is $28,000. Beyond that, individuals also must liquidate.
August 10, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
if costs were putting ppl off going to uni i would say there was a problem but as things stand more ppl are getting degrees than there are graduate jobs for
A lot of people who go to university in western countries wouldn't be accepted in Switzerland, which caps out graduate student positions relative to the job openings in those fields.
Switzerland must be doing something right as it has one of the world's lowest unemployment rates due to an apprenticeship model which pairs students with available positions (although it's less democratic as you might get assigned a career you might not particularly like).
August 10, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
As for bankruptcy, student loan debt is not immune (child support is though), it is just subject to a higher standard for discharge.
What are some instances where a student loan can be discharged?
August 10, 2014, 07:16:04 PM
The problem with college costs is that anyone is able to get a student loan, with virtually no requirements. Even if the student is pursuing a degree with no earnings potential they will still qualify. The result of this is that students do not take price into consideration when choosing a school as they can certainly borrow money in order to attend. Another issue is the fact that colleges are pressured to be "diverse" so they offer scholarships to students who are part of a "minority" even though they are not deserving of them. This also increases the pressure of the price of tuition.
The problem with student loan costs is that the sole provider of student loans is the US Government. They print money, then "loan it" out. This is a great deal for them, compared to printing money and getting almost no return on it as Treasury bills.They would like more and more and more student loans. And more house loans, since they are basically the only people doing that too.
They like debt slaves.
August 10, 2014, 07:13:07 PM
For example, when I left, which is about 10 years ago, my school was about 27k/year. Now it's close to 37k. And my school is nowhere near the top schools. Employment compensation (at least in my field) hardly increased.
No wonder students are running into trouble with student loans everywhere.
No wonder students are running into trouble with student loans everywhere.
The annual increase of the OP numbers.
(37 / 27) ^ (1/10) --> 1.03201, or 3.2% annual increase.
Cost of a certain house in Austin, TX
(265 / 154) ^ (1/10) --> 1.05578, or 5.6% annual increase.
In addition, tuition is only a portion of the cost that a student pays. Tuition itself is not rising as fast as tuition.
Pay to a certain faculty, past 8 years.
(44.5 / 40.5) ^ (1/8) --> 1.01184, or 1.1% annual increase.
August 10, 2014, 07:04:06 PM
The problem with college costs is that anyone is able to get a student loan, with virtually no requirements. Even if the student is pursuing a degree with no earnings potential they will still qualify. The result of this is that students do not take price into consideration when choosing a school as they can certainly borrow money in order to attend. Another issue is the fact that colleges are pressured to be "diverse" so they offer scholarships to students who are part of a "minority" even though they are not deserving of them. This also increases the pressure of the price of tuition.
The problem with student loan costs is that the sole provider of student loans is the US Government. They print money, then "loan it" out. This is a great deal for them, compared to printing money and getting almost no return on it as Treasury bills.They would like more and more and more student loans. And more house loans, since they are basically the only people doing that too.
They like debt slaves.
August 10, 2014, 03:17:38 PM
The problem with college costs is that anyone is able to get a student loan, with virtually no requirements. Even if the student is pursuing a degree with no earnings potential they will still qualify. The result of this is that students do not take price into consideration when choosing a school as they can certainly borrow money in order to attend. Another issue is the fact that colleges are pressured to be "diverse" so they offer scholarships to students who are part of a "minority" even though they are not deserving of them. This also increases the pressure of the price of tuition.
The problem with student loan costs is that the sole provider of student loans is the US Government. They print money, then "loan it" out. This is a great deal for them, compared to printing money and getting almost no return on it as Treasury bills.They would like more and more and more student loans. And more house loans, since they are basically the only people doing that too.
They like debt slaves.
August 10, 2014, 02:18:41 AM
The problem with college costs is that anyone is able to get a student loan, with virtually no requirements. Even if the student is pursuing a degree with no earnings potential they will still qualify. The result of this is that students do not take price into consideration when choosing a school as they can certainly borrow money in order to attend. Another issue is the fact that colleges are pressured to be "diverse" so they offer scholarships to students who are part of a "minority" even though they are not deserving of them. This also increases the pressure of the price of tuition.
August 08, 2014, 09:35:43 AM
It depends on the relative solvency of the company. Some bankruptcies are just financial restructurings using the bankruptcy law for certain very specific reasons. In a lot of those cases, everyone gets paid in full. Or everyone agrees to take a certain haircut on the amount they are owed. Well, not everyone, usually just the big, sophisticated banks and hedge funds. The "rank and file" creditors--employees, trade creditors, suppliers, etc.--all get paid in full, often with interest.
If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
Again...can an individual, short of lead poisoning, do the same thing as a company with their debts?If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
August 08, 2014, 09:30:46 AM
It depends on the relative solvency of the company. Some bankruptcies are just financial restructurings using the bankruptcy law for certain very specific reasons. In a lot of those cases, everyone gets paid in full. Or everyone agrees to take a certain haircut on the amount they are owed. Well, not everyone, usually just the big, sophisticated banks and hedge funds. The "rank and file" creditors--employees, trade creditors, suppliers, etc.--all get paid in full, often with interest.
If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
Again...can an individual, short of lead poisoning, do the same thing as a company with their debts? If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
August 08, 2014, 09:16:58 AM
It depends on the relative solvency of the company. Some bankruptcies are just financial restructurings using the bankruptcy law for certain very specific reasons. In a lot of those cases, everyone gets paid in full. Or everyone agrees to take a certain haircut on the amount they are owed. Well, not everyone, usually just the big, sophisticated banks and hedge funds. The "rank and file" creditors--employees, trade creditors, suppliers, etc.--all get paid in full, often with interest.
If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
If the company is in really bad shape, then only priority and secured debts will get paid in full. Other creditors will get some percentage on the dollar--sometimes a penny or two, sometimes closer to the full amount they are owed.
Some creditors have risk insurance or other relationships (like factoring) that step in if they do not get paid in full. Other creditors sell their claims early in the case to claims traders. Some creditors wait it out and get what they get.
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