Topic: What happens if BU fails VS What happens if SegWit fails - page 2. (Read 6407 times)

You are simply wrong on this.

A hard fork without a strong consensus ALWAYS leads to two coins.

A soft fork with a majority consensus amongst miners ALWAYS imposes its rules and one chain emerges.

A hard fork is defined as a modification in the protocol, so that new blocks under the hard fork are not valid under the old protocol.  You still have two cases: the hard fork can be backward compatible, so that blocks under the old protocol are still valid under the new protocol (call it a backward compatible hard fork), or you can have a genuine hard fork that is entirely incompatible.

A soft fork is defined as a modification in the protocol, so that new blocks under the soft fork are still valid under the old protocol, but that blocks under the old protocol aren't valid any more under the new protocol.

Case of a soft fork:
- if a minority of miners adopts it, not really an effect.
- if a majority of miners adopts it, it is IMPOSED UPON the others.  A single chain is always the result.  The user has no choice.

Case of a full hard fork:
- from the moment a non-negligible fraction of the miners adopts it, TWO COINS emerge.  The market will split the market cap over the two coins, and miners will follow that ratio.  It is possible that the market entirely kills one of the coins, or that essentially ALL miners adopt it: ---> consensus is preserved.  ONLY IN THIS CASE, a single chain emerges (the "alt coin" in case of full consensus).

Case of a backward compatible hard fork:
the old protocol can be seen as a soft fork from the hard fork.  
- As such, as long as the old protocol remains a majority, this "soft fork" remains imposed, the hard fork cannot happen.  
- if the hard fork is majority, it can split the chain into two coins, like a full hard fork.
However, if the hard fork loses majority, the second chain becomes a major orphan, and is taken over by the old protocol chain (can be six months later)  --> super cluster fuck.

If a fork appears, I suspect we'll quickly see a new version of core with support for bigger blocks because they still want SegWit. So a BU fork may result in an actual compromise.

YOUR FORGETTING NODES aswell as POOL
learn real consensus

also your forgetting without banning communications. the minority see the blockheight. but then orphan it because the rules dont match.
then see the blockheight.. but then orphan it because the rules dont match.
then see the blockheight.. but then orphan it because the rules dont match.
then see the blockheight.. but then orphan it because the rules dont match.
endlessly.

BU wont ban the other community nodes.. only blockstream would ban the community nodes.
and that would only happen if blockstream were minority. because the community wont trigger unless they had majority.

and thats what blockstream fears.. losing their control where by the dozen other independant node brands continue.

remember and learn consensus

FTFY

Yes, you are right (see the edit of my previous post).  This "backward compatibility" of BU with respect to the standard protocol makes that the standard protocol is a soft fork of BU.  Then they expose themselves AT ANY MOMENT to be orphaned, even 6 months later, if ever the BU fork falls beneat 51% hash rate.  Then you will get the bitcoin chain orphaned 6 months behind, because from the first >1MB onwards, the soft fork is not compatible any more, and this will be the last valid block on the chain.  Major clusterfuck !

The only safe way of making the BU hard fork, is by making it incompatible with the old protocol.  If they don't do this, and they "pull the trigger", this will be a major disaster on the chain.

nope.
your over using the umbrella term hard fork but not understanding the categories within the hard vs soft.
save rewriting to repeat myself

if only blockstream lovers stopped reading the doomsday scripts on reddit and the fake promise sales pitches.. and instead learned bitcoin especially consensus and bitcoins natural safeguard of consensus via orphans.. they would actually help themselves more and start giving real support to the community. rather than just kissing blockstream ass.

note to all blockstream loving doomsdayers
learn consensus

Non BU blocks are still 100% compatible with BU so if BU doesn't have more than 50% of hash power, the fork will fail untless BU miners intentionally filter the non BU nodes. The only way for a fork to be successful is if the BU miners mine a block > 1 MB and have 51%+ of the hash power. Personally I'll wait until 18 blocks longer before I really consider the fork successful.

You are seriously confused about this aspect.  There is no "majority hash rate consensus" between INCOMPATIBLE CHAINS.  The only thing you do with your 51% hash rate is to produce INVALID BLOCKS wrt the original protocol.  So this PoW doesn't matter, the blocks are invalid.  If you produce 1.5 MB blocks with a PoW that is more than 10 times all the PoW that ever went into bitcoin, then these blocks doesn't count because they are simply INVALID.  The old protocol simply rejects them (in the same way as if they were containing wrong signatures in the transactions).  The only valid blocks (wrt the old protocol) are those, mined with the 49% hash rate of the miners sticking to the old protocol.

But the new protocol can continue building on its own chain with bigger blocks.  

Of course, as long as BU accepts also old-protocol blocks, they need 51% of the hash rate, or the old chain (which is VALID under the new BU protocol if they don't protect themselves) will take over.  In fact, in this case, you can see the old protocol as a soft fork from the BU protocol, which can IMPOSE its will when it is majority.  In order to avoid that, BU should make the old protocol invalid too, so that ONLY BU blocks are compatible with BU.  Maybe they could flip a little-endian/big-endian convention somewhere, so that both are fully incompatible.  Otherwise, they risk at any moment to be killed by the "soft fork" of the old protocol.

Well, then you ALSO create an (incompatible) alt coin.  That's what a hard fork is: to create an alt coin.  

I don't think you are informed on the background of these actors nor their motivations.