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Topic: What if hard limit on bitcoin had been 21 Billion instead of 21 Million? (Read 427 times)

full member
Activity: 415
Merit: 100
Hello Peeps,

Here is a game theory question to question the rush and rash in bitcoin world.

The number of bitcoins is limited to 21 millions with 8 zeros in fractions. What if the fractional places would have been 5 instead of 8 and total coins in circulation would have been 21 billion coins with same generation span, do you believe that price would be same as now? By same generation span, I mean that generation per block would be 1000 times more than the actual so that the world get 21 billion bitcoins in same span as actual.

What if the fractional places would be still 8 with 21 billion coins in circulation in same generation span? Would the price be still the same as now?

Is number a problem?
Hypothetically, To correct the market behavior of mad rush towards sustainability, shall we create a new taxonomy say "TheCoin" which is 1000th of Bitcoin and convert  all exchanges and conversations in new taxonomy?

I think number is a problem.

What do you think?





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Disclaimer: I hold bitcoins. And working on new coins. I hate ICOs. I think privacy is overrated. I believe privacy is necessary but not always.

I would imagine that the price would be the same but to a factor of 1000, that being it would be 1/1000th of the current price so about $16. That's based on the belief that market cap is the true driving factor behind the valuation and that is made up of supply and price, if supply increased price would decrease to maintain the same market cap.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
Affecting the decimal place shouldn't have an impact on the price. It limits the extent that a bitcoin can be divided into smaller pieces, but it doesn't change the supply. A 1000x increase in the number of coins should theoretically see a 1000x decrease in the price, but since people speculating don't take into consideration any mathematical or financial valuation when making purchase and share of BTC, I actually don't expect that it would logically follow. When Doge abandoned it's hard cap, the price went up over time, which doesn't make economic sense since the value of each coin is inflated away with the production of every new coin.

Yeah, I remember those times. There was a lot more enthusiasm about new coins than there's today. People were more optimistic back then, and whenever some news from the devs leaked out, folks rushed to buy up the coin. Even though they should have actually sold it if we look at it from an entirely rational point of view like when the Doge hard cap was removed. It is different nowadays, though the hype is still present.
sr. member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 255
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Too much product, price of bitcoin would be just X times lower and it wouldn't be as popular as it is nowadays. Whole crypto market would be different then.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 120
If the market had 21billion bitcoin then we would have not experienced the high prices of it. More supply the lower its price would be, the blvalue will be the one most affected by it. However it would have a liitle advantage as there will he lot of bitcoin fund that will revolve in the market butbwith lower price. In that case I dont think peoppe will be interested tonl invest in.
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 672
The most definite answer will be of course Bitcoin wouldn't have the same value as to what it has now. Bitcoin will have a lower price overall but I don't think that it will big affect if mining and getting Bitcoin will still be easy. I mean Bitcoin is still the first cryptocurrency available in the market I wouldn't be surprised if other cryptocurrencies would have bigger quantity or follow the direction in which Bitcoin is headed.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1115
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Hello Peeps,

Here is a game theory question to question the rush and rash in bitcoin world.

The number of bitcoins is limited to 21 millions with 8 zeros in fractions. What if the fractional places would have been 5 instead of 8 and total coins in circulation would have been 21 billion coins with same generation span, do you believe that price would be same as now? By same generation span, I mean that generation per block would be 1000 times more than the actual so that the world get 21 billion bitcoins in same span as actual.

What if the fractional places would be still 8 with 21 billion coins in circulation in same generation span? Would the price be still the same as now?

Is number a problem?
Hypothetically, To correct the market behavior of mad rush towards sustainability, shall we create a new taxonomy say "TheCoin" which is 1000th of Bitcoin and convert  all exchanges and conversations in new taxonomy?

I think number is a problem.

What do you think?





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I hold bitcoins. And working on new coins. I hate ICOs. I think privacy is overrated. I believe privacy is necessary but not always.

Affecting the decimal place shouldn't have an impact on the price. It limits the extent that a bitcoin can be divided into smaller pieces, but it doesn't change the supply. A 1000x increase in the number of coins should theoretically see a 1000x decrease in the price, but since people speculating don't take into consideration any mathematical or financial valuation when making purchase and share of BTC, I actually don't expect that it would logically follow. When Doge abandoned it's hard cap, the price went up over time, which doesn't make economic sense since the value of each coin is inflated away with the production of every new coin.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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price would have been a lot higher than what it is right now. it would probably be at something near $100,000 and we would have been discussing about how strong the $100k resistance is instead of the $20k.
That is a wrong analysis in my opinion,people who are not investing in bitcoin are skeptical about a software which provides tokens and that has a valuation and they really cannot understand the basic and it will be very difficult to teach these individual unless they wanted to know what is the technology and concept behind it and it is not about decimal barriers. If the hard limit was 21 billion i am sure the valuation wont be this high too soon,but it would eventually keep growing at a steady pace.

I can not also agree that price would be 100k$ today if total limit of coins is 21 billion,this make no sense for me.BTC is today so attractive and interesting just because it is have so "low" limited supply in comparison to some altcoins.As I say before,BTC is available from 2009 and everyone had the opportunity to buy it for 1 or 2 $ in past or for 20k$ recently.People need to know that they can buy small amounts of BTC and increase their total balance with time-problem is most of users want to have 1 BTC instant/from their point of view 21 billion available coins would give them an opportunity to buy 1 BTC under 1000$ today.
member
Activity: 546
Merit: 10
If there are lots of supply eventhough there are high numbers of demand the price won't increase. That's the law of demand and supply.
If the bitcoin has 21 billion and it can divided in 8 digits approximately then bitcoin price will not increase ever and ever.
Scarce resources help the price goes up and traders and investors gain profits if the price increases. That's how bitcoin price and value works.
newbie
Activity: 59
Merit: 0
If everything was the same but if instead we had 21 billion coins then the market cap will be the same but instead of having 1 bitcoin in your wallet you will have 1000 for each of those bitcoins, in fact that would not be that bad since that would mean that the current price of a bitcoin with 21billion coins will be 1.7 dollars, we will get even more investors since people will think that bitcoin is still cheap.

hero member
Activity: 2814
Merit: 911
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price would have been a lot higher than what it is right now. it would probably be at something near $100,000 and we would have been discussing about how strong the $100k resistance is instead of the $20k.
That is a wrong analysis in my opinion,people who are not investing in bitcoin are skeptical about a software which provides tokens and that has a valuation and they really cannot understand the basic and it will be very difficult to teach these individual unless they wanted to know what is the technology and concept behind it and it is not about decimal barriers. If the hard limit was 21 billion i am sure the valuation wont be this high too soon,but it would eventually keep growing at a steady pace.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 108
If the hard limit of bitcoin would have been 21 billion instead of 21 million pricing of bitcoin will be affected whereas it could possibly lowered the value of bitcoin since the supply will become so much available. As the law on demand and supply will be followed it may have negative impact with the current pricing of bitcoin but it will be good for mining business and in later years
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
price would have been a lot higher than what it is right now. it would probably be at something near $100,000 and we would have been discussing about how strong the $100k resistance is instead of the $20k.

and the reason for that is pretty simple, one of the biggest things that have prevented people from investing in bitcoin and seeing it as "too expensive" has been the fact that for example right now 1BTC or 100,000,000 satoshi is worth $16500. if there were 5 decimal places and we shifted the zeros to whole bitcoin then 1BTC would have been 100,000 satoshi and many of the mental barriers would have been lifted.

one of the reasons i suggested to move to satoshi: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/we-need-to-stop-using-bitcoin-and-start-using-1926157

at the end of the day, at code level nobody cares if 100,000,000 satoshi is called 1 bitcoin or 100,000 satoshi. the max is never going to be bigger than 2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshi
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
Some people think Satoshi Nakamoto is made some things wrong and that he should determine higher total amount of BTC,make block size bigger then 1 MB and maybe invent Lightning Network so we not have any problems today.But everything is made for good reason and if you search Satoshi posts on this forum : https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/satoshi-3 (yes,this is Satoshi Nakamoto profile) some things become a bit clearer.

I think 21 million BTC total supply is optimal number,it could be a million less or million more,but 21 billion is too much and I doubt the price will be even 10% of today value.Some may say that bigger number of total BTC will help to fairer distribution,but BTC is here from 2009. so all have chance to join to this train,and even today is no to late.3+ million BTC is still waiting to be mined,and price is today very low from what we may expect in next 5-10 years.

I remember I read somewhere that initially the block size was equal to staggering 32 megabytes and it was later reduced by Nakamoto himself to avoid the centralization of mining. Though I don't really know what the block size has to do with Bitcoin centralization. I also heard that 21 million coins and 8 decimal places were chosen on purely utilitarian basis due to some hardware or processor limitations, though I don't know which either. But the total number of coins certainly wasn't based on some economic theory or idea.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1252
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Hello Peeps,

Here is a game theory question to question the rush and rash in bitcoin world.

The number of bitcoins is limited to 21 millions with 8 zeros in fractions. What if the fractional places would have been 5 instead of 8 and total coins in circulation would have been 21 billion coins with same generation span, do you believe that price would be same as now? By same generation span, I mean that generation per block would be 1000 times more than the actual so that the world get 21 billion bitcoins in same span as actual.

What if the fractional places would be still 8 with 21 billion coins in circulation in same generation span? Would the price be still the same as now?

Is number a problem?
Hypothetically, To correct the market behavior of mad rush towards sustainability, shall we create a new taxonomy say "TheCoin" which is 1000th of Bitcoin and convert  all exchanges and conversations in new taxonomy?

I think number is a problem.

What do you think?

Well obviously, the larger the market cap, the lower the demand amd its market value. It has to do with the law of supply and demand. Anything from the market which is having a limited supply will have a high demand which will alsp result for its value to be much expensive especially if the limit is already reached, it will make the demand soar.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I hold bitcoins. And working on new coins. I hate ICOs. I think privacy is overrated. I believe privacy is necessary but not always.
member
Activity: 126
Merit: 10
Have you ever read about inflation? it is a situation where an item more difficult to find food will be more expensive the price of the item. like Bitcoin, if Max supply has reached 21 billion then it will be more expensive Bitcoin. You should think Right Now,  to make the decision to save some of your Assets in bitcoin for your own future

Thats essential, but this topic has made me top for a while, Bitcoin information has been spread through massive number of people, and now a news or articles about the limitation of Bitcoin will be shockingly come to life, given rhe fact that a very huge number of people has been working here already and we cannot say that some how, people were eaening here so much how a bout the others? I am expecting that due to massive demand , the supply for Bitcoin is continuously happening.
sr. member
Activity: 882
Merit: 282
Hello Peeps,

Here is a game theory question to question the rush and rash in bitcoin world.

The number of bitcoins is limited to 21 millions with 8 zeros in fractions. What if the fractional places would have been 5 instead of 8 and total coins in circulation would have been 21 billion coins with same generation span, do you believe that price would be same as now? By same generation span, I mean that generation per block would be 1000 times more than the actual so that the world get 21 billion bitcoins in same span as actual.

What if the fractional places would be still 8 with 21 billion coins in circulation in same generation span? Would the price be still the same as now?

Is number a problem?
Hypothetically, To correct the market behavior of mad rush towards sustainability, shall we create a new taxonomy say "TheCoin" which is 1000th of Bitcoin and convert  all exchanges and conversations in new taxonomy?

I think number is a problem.

What do you think?





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I hold bitcoins. And working on new coins. I hate ICOs. I think privacy is overrated. I believe privacy is necessary but not always.
Yes, Number is a big problem and I have been studying currently why some coins with large number do find to increase in price and those with lower number do increased faster in price and one thing that I have find out is that those coin increase in price because of there number. The price cannot be the same if bitcoin supply in circulation is up to $21,000,000,000.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
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Some people think Satoshi Nakamoto is made some things wrong and that he should determine higher total amount of BTC,make block size bigger then 1 MB and maybe invent Lightning Network so we not have any problems today.But everything is made for good reason and if you search Satoshi posts on this forum : https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/satoshi-3 (yes,this is Satoshi Nakamoto profile) some things become a bit clearer.

I think 21 million BTC total supply is optimal number,it could be a million less or million more,but 21 billion is too much and I doubt the price will be even 10% of today value.Some may say that bigger number of total BTC will help to fairer distribution,but BTC is here from 2009. so all have chance to join to this train,and even today is no to late.3+ million BTC is still waiting to be mined,and price is today very low from what we may expect in next 5-10 years.
full member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 166
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If bitcoin limit will be 21 billion then the price of bitcoin will be very very less because the price of bitcoin is based on the supply and demand so if there are more bitcoins the supply will be high and the demand will be low.So the price will be less than current situation.
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 10
Obviously, the price wouldn't be the same as today. In fact, it would be much lower. If one coin was 15k, and there were 21 billion in circulation, the total marketcap would be $315 trillion which is way over the top.
sr. member
Activity: 644
Merit: 263
There could have been two cases in such regard. One is the price couldn't have reached so much heights as there is lots of supply for the bitcoin and people are not enough in the market. I think the prices would have been around $ 1000 USD at that scenario. Because we are speaking about the supply which is almost 10x more than the current supply and thus the price would have been 10x lower Thant he current rates.

Now if according to your assumption if the fractional places for the circulating supply would have been 18 billion then yeah surely the price would have been 100 times more than the current one because to reach that much prices we will need trillion dollar business to be flowing throughout the world. God dam it thats too much money to be put on the online market. But yeah could have been possible.
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