Topic: What is the logical explaination for a single 5k buy causing 10 dollar slippage? (Read 2113 times)
November 29, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
My how things have changed.
June 12, 2013, 08:46:41 AM
The bulk buy is not puzzling, the puzzling thing is that 50% of coins bought were at 110, while other 50% were between 110 and 100.
This happens when you enter a bid for 9k @ $110 while the price is still lower than 110. This works like a market order with an upper price limit. It bought everything up to and including 110 and then left the remainder as a limit buy at 110. So it doesn't need to be some complicated strategy to produce these symptoms, just a simple "buy 9k at 110" and then click "ok". It might also have been an accident, maybe he confused buy and sell and actually wanted to enter a limit sell: "sell 9k at 110" but accidentally was on the wrong tab.
How a simple fuckup causes trend reversal
June 12, 2013, 08:41:44 AM
The bulk buy is not puzzling, the puzzling thing is that 50% of coins bought were at 110, while other 50% were between 110 and 100.
This happens when you enter a bid for 9k @ $110 while the price is still lower than 110. This works like a market order with an upper price limit. It bought everything up to and including 110 and then left the remainder as a limit buy at 110. So it doesn't need to be some complicated strategy to produce these symptoms, just a simple "buy 9k at 110" and then click "ok". It might also have been an accident, maybe he confused buy and sell and actually wanted to enter a limit sell: "sell 9k at 110" but accidentally was on the wrong tab.
June 11, 2013, 04:03:56 PM
Quote
I'm sorry but the syntax you used in your answer makes it hard to understand. There was no sale happening, a buy of 5k happened and then another 4k were absorbed at 110 and did not stop the price from falling into 106. I think there was no way to make profit with these 4k coins bought at 110.
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I see (additionally) why my response was confusing: I'm still analysing the data drops on 08-Jun-2013. Sorry for the confusion.
Though I did see the spike on 10-Jun I wasn't watching at the time. Unsure as to his/her intent... though the median was 107 after the fallout from that spike from a low of 104 just prior; again depending on where the bulk of his volumes were he may have not realised as much profit pushing into the 110 and above range? Chances are he bought allot of bite-size chunks in the 90's range just before that in order to maximise that spike?
The bulk buy is not puzzling, the puzzling thing is that 50% of coins bought were at 110, while other 50% were between 110 and 100.
Then I agree with the others to say he most likely miscalculated.... though who knows where he bought and where he want the turn to adjust to. Chances are the person responsible for the cascade from 130 - 94 in the past week is the same person with the purchasing power of 10k+ btc. So this person or group will win all the way through. and back to market parity.
June 11, 2013, 03:55:51 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
Not everything works out perfectly for the big-money investors.
So you think his stunt has failed?
I can't think of any valid strategy where a bid wall eaten through is a positive for the bid wall owner.
I can. Put your bid near important support points where you expect the price to rebound up.
June 11, 2013, 03:53:36 PM
Quote
I'm sorry but the syntax you used in your answer makes it hard to understand. There was no sale happening, a buy of 5k happened and then another 4k were absorbed at 110 and did not stop the price from falling into 106. I think there was no way to make profit with these 4k coins bought at 110.
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I see (additionally) why my response was confusing: I'm still analysing the data drops on 08-Jun-2013. Sorry for the confusion.
Though I did see the spike on 10-Jun I wasn't watching at the time. Unsure as to his/her intent... though the median was 107 after the fallout from that spike from a low of 104 just prior; again depending on where the bulk of his volumes were he may have not realised as much profit pushing into the 110 and above range? Chances are he bought allot of bite-size chunks in the 90's range just before that in order to maximise that spike?
The bulk buy is not puzzling, the puzzling thing is that 50% of coins bought were at 110, while other 50% were between 110 and 100.
June 11, 2013, 03:48:09 PM
Quote
I'm sorry but the syntax you used in your answer makes it hard to understand. There was no sale happening, a buy of 5k happened and then another 4k were absorbed at 110 and did not stop the price from falling into 106. I think there was no way to make profit with these 4k coins bought at 110.
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
I see (additionally) why my response was confusing: I'm still analysing the data drops on 08-Jun-2013. Sorry for the confusion.
Though I did see the spike on 10-Jun I wasn't watching at the time. Unsure as to his/her intent... though the median was 107 after the fallout from that spike from a low of 104 just prior; again depending on where the bulk of his volumes were he may have not realised as much profit pushing into the 110 and above range? Chances are he bought allot of bite-size chunks in the 90's range just before that in order to maximise that spike?
June 11, 2013, 03:18:49 PM
I think there was no way to make profit with these 4k coins bought at 110.
Patience.
You mean same patience as I would have expressed by buying in now and coming back in 2 years?
June 11, 2013, 03:03:58 PM
Might be just looking for information for developing trading strategies. We all know a lot of walls are fake. Maybe this person wanted to see what happens if you throw in a big order at market. How many move? How many disappear? What happens afterward?
Which walls would he want to observe? His buy was calculated exactly to get to 110 in one swing.
Good point.
June 11, 2013, 03:02:53 PM
Might be just looking for information for developing trading strategies. We all know a lot of walls are fake. Maybe this person wanted to see what happens if you throw in a big order at market. How many move? How many disappear? What happens afterward?
Which walls would he want to observe? His buy was calculated exactly to get to 110 in one swing.
June 11, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
Might be just looking for information for developing trading strategies. We all know a lot of walls are fake. Maybe this person wanted to see what happens if you throw in a big order at market. How many move? How many disappear? What happens afterward? If you clear out a big spread, how long does it take to "heal"?
June 11, 2013, 02:38:09 PM
It's like watching a flame isn't it.
I like to answer in riddles so here's my best riddle:
What is the difference in %50 percent of your sell order if the bulk of your firesale is over %50 percent threshold from you landing point?
If you get this then you know why you put a wall in at %3 of the landing and put orders in at 4-10% to drag the price down while you rake in profits with upward momentum (up to %50 of your sale) during the market readjustment over 24-72 hours.
In other words look for the miniwalls (400btc and 300btc farther down the chain to see where these pressure points are going to be relieved... you'll see they are removed right before the bulk buy/sell)... the market depth will give you a clue as to which direction the buy/sell is going to go after you subtract the walls/miniwalls from either side.
I like to answer in riddles so here's my best riddle:
What is the difference in %50 percent of your sell order if the bulk of your firesale is over %50 percent threshold from you landing point?
If you get this then you know why you put a wall in at %3 of the landing and put orders in at 4-10% to drag the price down while you rake in profits with upward momentum (up to %50 of your sale) during the market readjustment over 24-72 hours.
In other words look for the miniwalls (400btc and 300btc farther down the chain to see where these pressure points are going to be relieved... you'll see they are removed right before the bulk buy/sell)... the market depth will give you a clue as to which direction the buy/sell is going to go after you subtract the walls/miniwalls from either side.
I'm sorry but the syntax you used in your answer makes it hard to understand. There was no sale happening, a buy of 5k happened and then another 4k were absorbed at 110 and did not stop the price from falling into 106. I think there was no way to make profit with these 4k coins bought at 110.
I guess I could understand the reasoning behind the 5k buy but why put a wall at 110?
June 11, 2013, 02:33:55 PM
It's like watching a flame isn't it.
I like to answer in riddles so here's my best riddle:
What is the difference in %50 percent of your sell order if the bulk of your firesale is over %50 percent threshold from you landing point?
If you get this then you know why you put a wall in at %3 of the landing and put orders in at 4-10% to drag the price down while you rake in profits with upward momentum (up to %50 of your sale) during the market readjustment over 24-72 hours.
In other words look for the miniwalls (400btc and 300btc farther down the chain to see where these pressure points are going to be relieved... you'll see they are removed right before the bulk buy/sell)... the market depth will give you a clue as to which direction the buy/sell is going to go after you subtract the walls/miniwalls from either side.
I like to answer in riddles so here's my best riddle:
What is the difference in %50 percent of your sell order if the bulk of your firesale is over %50 percent threshold from you landing point?
If you get this then you know why you put a wall in at %3 of the landing and put orders in at 4-10% to drag the price down while you rake in profits with upward momentum (up to %50 of your sale) during the market readjustment over 24-72 hours.
In other words look for the miniwalls (400btc and 300btc farther down the chain to see where these pressure points are going to be relieved... you'll see they are removed right before the bulk buy/sell)... the market depth will give you a clue as to which direction the buy/sell is going to go after you subtract the walls/miniwalls from either side.
June 11, 2013, 01:54:55 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
Not everything works out perfectly for the big-money investors.
So you think his stunt has failed?
I can't think of any valid strategy where a bid wall eaten through is a positive for the bid wall owner.
June 11, 2013, 01:49:53 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
The most effective strategy in response is never pay market price bid way under market 20-30%, hold, and only sell higher above your cost.
June 11, 2013, 12:47:23 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
Not everything works out perfectly for the big-money investors.
So you think his stunt has failed?
June 11, 2013, 12:16:35 PM
They fuck the market once a month on a weekend and take profits the rest of the month... Follow the Money man
June 11, 2013, 12:15:22 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
Not everything works out perfectly for the big-money investors.
June 11, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
On June 10th following events happened in few minutes:
1. There was one 400BTC buy which brought us from 95 to 99
2. Another 5k buy that had 10USD slippage.
3. Straight after price reached 110, A 4k bid wall at 110 was put and eaten, and price went down to around 106. (or less, I don't remember)
This all happened in a very, very short period of time. What could be the motivation of such thing happening?
Assuming it was same person who executed the buys, or at least the 5k buy, did this guy put the wall at 110 to assure trend reversal? This is quite a price to pay, as 110 has not been reached since then. I assume if the wall was not put we would go up to 110 and then crumble right back down, as gox 503'd at that time. So... what could it be? Just trying to learn.
1. There was one 400BTC buy which brought us from 95 to 99
2. Another 5k buy that had 10USD slippage.
3. Straight after price reached 110, A 4k bid wall at 110 was put and eaten, and price went down to around 106. (or less, I don't remember)
This all happened in a very, very short period of time. What could be the motivation of such thing happening?
Assuming it was same person who executed the buys, or at least the 5k buy, did this guy put the wall at 110 to assure trend reversal? This is quite a price to pay, as 110 has not been reached since then. I assume if the wall was not put we would go up to 110 and then crumble right back down, as gox 503'd at that time. So... what could it be? Just trying to learn.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the market is being manipulated by a multimillionaire... If you think its going below 80 so the little guys like you can pick up some cheap coins keep dreaming..
June 11, 2013, 12:10:57 PM
Manipulating the market medium-long term provides enough gains to allow for such losses, or, fat fingers.
What I want to know though, how these gains can be made by this 5k buy + 4k wall stunt?
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