What to do with lost bitcoins | Bitcointalksearch.org

CoinCidental

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on December 08, 2016, 12:36:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, ten years after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

Taking something that doesn't belong to you is theft. I suggest you take your criminal idea and character flaw and go create an altcoin that implements your "We'll steal your stuff after a while" idea. I'm not interested in having your horrible idea in my bitcoin, and since bitcoin is a consensus system you'll never get such a change made anyhow.

Since this topic has been discussed HUNDREDS of times in the past 8 years, can we please just lock this thread now? Perhaps anyone that posts in this thread with a sig ad after this should just automatically be perma-banned?

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MMA

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 14, 2016, 04:34:46 AM

What you can do if the coins are lost? Just forget about it and move on. May be sometime in the future you will be able to earn far more coins than you lost. Bitcoins must be traded very carefully. Once they are gone, then there is no way to recover them.

yes that is right to say. i am agree with you, there is no way to recover your lost bitcoin, therefore it is important to trade bitcoin very carefully, and you have already lost your bitcoin then work hard and earn more.

Yutikas_11920

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Quote from: markyminer on December 14, 2016, 05:23:29 AM

Quote from: HanSchultz on December 13, 2016, 03:35:09 PM

If you could recover your lost bitcoins then it would be easier for me to recover my coins which i lost when my system crashed ,the coins once lost are lost forever and i am not happy with the situation but then you have to accept it ,lesson i learned is to take back ups and have it in multiple safe locations.

yes i also think so, i think if once you lost your bitcoin it become very difficult to recovery it again, it can only be possible if you recover your wallet key otherwise it is not possible to recover the lost bitcoins.

That is certainly true for bitcoin is not currency that can be restored that we often see in all currencies. Because the system used in the bitcoin system is quite complex and they can not be returned if we made a mistake. So if we use the bitcoin then we should be able to use it with caution, without it then we will continue to get our fault because loss is always done.Bitcoin will only give us an advantage if we know the way the game and we can understand the bitcoin with good

markyminer

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Quote from: HanSchultz on December 13, 2016, 03:35:09 PM

If you could recover your lost bitcoins then it would be easier for me to recover my coins which i lost when my system crashed ,the coins once lost are lost forever and i am not happy with the situation but then you have to accept it ,lesson i learned is to take back ups and have it in multiple safe locations.

yes i also think so, i think if once you lost your bitcoin it become very difficult to recovery it again, it can only be possible if you recover your wallet key otherwise it is not possible to recover the lost bitcoins.

Sithara007

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What you can do if the coins are lost? Just forget about it and move on. May be sometime in the future you will be able to earn far more coins than you lost. Bitcoins must be traded very carefully. Once they are gone, then there is no way to recover them.

deisik

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Quote from: odolvlobo on December 13, 2016, 08:12:24 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 05:04:13 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on December 13, 2016, 04:55:25 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

... I suggest adding a special flag which would add a certain period of time after which the wallet with that flag set by the wallet owner should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

Your idea can easily be implemented right now:

1. Create a transaction that moves the coins and set nLockTime to a date in the future.
2. Don't publish the transaction. Instead, give it to the potential recipient.
3. If the coins have not moved by the specified date, then the recipient can publish the transaction and receive the coins.
4. If the coins have already been moved, then the transaction is no longer valid.

Yes, it is a very close approximation to my idea

The only drawback that I can see right now is that if someone holds the keys to his wallet exclusively, say, some lonely but rich geek, who still doesn't want his coins to be lost forever (e.g. if he suddenly dies or gets caught by the FBI and their likes), then he wouldn't be able to donate the entirety of his bitcoins to some fund, charity or community. Leaving a will with a private key may not be what he would actually want to do, for obvious reasons (e.g. anonymity issues)

He donates his bitcoins when he creates the transaction with nLockTime, and that can be done at any time. He can give the transaction to the beneficiary anonymously at any time before his death

But this would prevent him from using his bitcoins, right? I mean without invalidating the future transaction. Indeed, you might say that he could send them to a separate address (the coins in which he would never touch) and then give the transaction to whoever he might choose, but it is certainly not the point. On the other hand, since such option exists (and others as well as I can judge), there is very little that should be changed in the Bitcoin protocol that would realize my idea in a straight way. Just in case, I know that there is no concept of a wallet in Bitcoin...

I just use the term since it grates on my ears when I hear someone say that he has money in his address (or something to that tune)

Quote from: odolvlobo on December 13, 2016, 08:12:24 PM

Another way to accomplish what you want to do might be to use OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY, which can be used to prevent an output from being spent before a certain time. By sending bitcoins to yourself using a transaction with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY, you can make it so that you can spend the bitcoins at any time, and somebody else can spend the bitcoins after a certain time with a special key.

What special key are you talking about?

jbreher

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Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/theymos-bitcoins-belonging-to-satoshi-should-be-destroyed-1469099

Nevermind the title - the thread explicitly deviates almost immediately to 'any that have not moved in X time'.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 05:04:13 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on December 13, 2016, 04:55:25 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

... I suggest adding a special flag which would add a certain period of time after which the wallet with that flag set by the wallet owner should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

Your idea can easily be implemented right now:

1. Create a transaction that moves the coins and set nLockTime to a date in the future.
2. Don't publish the transaction. Instead, give it to the potential recipient.
3. If the coins have not moved by the specified date, then the recipient can publish the transaction and receive the coins.
4. If the coins have already been moved, then the transaction is no longer valid.

Yes, it is a very close approximation to my idea

The only drawback that I can see right now is that if someone holds the keys to his wallet exclusively, say, some lonely but rich geek, who still doesn't want his coins to be lost forever (e.g. if he suddenly dies or gets caught by the FBI and their likes), then he wouldn't be able to donate the entirety of his bitcoins to some fund, charity or community. Leaving a will with a private key may not be what he would actually want to do, for obvious reasons (e.g. anonymity issues)

He donates his bitcoins when he creates the transaction with nLockTime, and that can be done at any time. He can give the transaction to the beneficiary anonymously at any time before his death.

BTW, there is no concept of a wallet in the Bitcoin protocol. A wallet is just a collection of addresses and their private keys, sometimes represented by a single "seed".

Another way to accomplish what you want to do might be to use OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY, which can be used to prevent an output from being spent before a certain time. By sending bitcoins to yourself using a transaction with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY, you can make it so that you can spend the bitcoins at any time, and somebody else can spend the bitcoins after a certain time with a special key.

deisik

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Quote from: odolvlobo on December 13, 2016, 04:55:25 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

... I suggest adding a special flag which would add a certain period of time after which the wallet with that flag set by the wallet owner should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

Your idea can easily be implemented right now:

1. Create a transaction that moves the coins and set nLockTime to a date in the future.
2. Don't publish the transaction. Instead, give it to the potential recipient.
3. If the coins have not moved by the specified date, then the recipient can publish the transaction and receive the coins.
4. If the coins have already been moved, then the transaction is no longer valid.

Yes, it is a very close approximation to my idea

The only drawback that I can see right now is that if someone holds the keys to his wallet exclusively, say, some lonely but rich geek, who still doesn't want his coins to be lost forever (e.g. if he suddenly dies or gets caught by the FBI and their likes), then he wouldn't be able to donate the entirety of his bitcoins to some fund, charity or community. Leaving a will with a private key may not be what he would actually want to do, for obvious reasons (e.g. anonymity issues)

odolvlobo

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Quote from: deisik on December 08, 2016, 12:29:21 PM

... I suggest adding a special flag which would add a certain period of time after which the wallet with that flag set by the wallet owner should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

Your idea can easily be implemented right now:

1. Create a transaction that moves the coins to the potential recipient's wallet and set nLockTime to a date in the future.
2. Don't publish the transaction. Instead, give it to the potential recipient.
3. If the coins have not moved by the specified date, then the recipient can publish the transaction and receive the coins.
4. If the coins have already been moved, then the transaction is no longer valid.

You could even use this to prevent losing the bitcoins in the first place. If you create such a transaction that sends the bitcoins to yourself, then you must lose the private keys for both addresses in order to lose the bitcoins forever.

HanSchultz

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If you could recover your lost bitcoins then it would be easier for me to recover my coins which i lost when my system crashed ,the coins once lost are lost forever and i am not happy with the situation but then you have to accept it ,lesson i learned is to take back ups and have it in multiple safe locations.

babyjesusftw1

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This is actually a pretty interesting topic, I never really thought about the fact that bitcoins will become scarcer over time due to people losing their wallet keys or storage hardware. I wonder if there will need to be some way to create additional bitcoin to make up for bitcoin that simply gets lost and cannot be retrieved, since the amount of bitcoin is already finite and will continue to get smaller once the last blocks are mined.

deisik

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Quote from: Shady on December 13, 2016, 01:26:43 PM

My biggest fear is that when everybody dies Bitcoin will be abandoned leaving the potential for new users having less currency advantages, resulting in lessened market value because of split supply

We may not live up to that, so what difference does it make?

Conventional wisdom has it that Bitcoin is infinitely divisible so it doesn't matter if we have whole bitcoins, mini-bitcoins or just satoshis as a basic unit of account in Bitcoin. Nevertheless, one group of people is claiming that this will necessarily lead to a wealth dilution and less scarcity of Bitcoin as such, though I tend to consider their view as erroneous. Another group is asserting that all lost coins contribute to the buying power of the remaining coins, which is technically correct, but this makes a perfect example of the "socialist greed" that members of this group seem not to be quite aware of themselves

Quote from: Shady on December 13, 2016, 01:26:43 PM

I believe one day that there'll be much more done for not only this issue, but for many others.

If not Bitcoin, then some other cryptocurrency will do what I suggest here

Shady

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Life is a game, you either play it or get played.

My biggest fear is that when everybody dies Bitcoin will be abandoned leaving the potential for new users having less currency advantages, resulting in lessened market value because of split supply.

I believe one day that there'll be much more done for not only this issue, but for many others.

aditya6997

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My suggestion is

bitcoin network should have the feature of auto sending the stored bitcoin in primary wallet to backup wallet after the certain time period. This way the person would have a chance to get his funds back even if the primary wallet is lost! Via programable wallet or transaction!

deisik

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:42:14 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 07:33:17 AM

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3571254

A lot of relevant discussion was also in this 2011 thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-proposed-solution-to-adjust-for-lost-bitcoins-wallet-heartbeats-20799

I looked at the thread and it is not what I suggest here

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

To OP, as someone who has stored some bitcoins in a cold wallet in a safety deposit box I don't appreciate this suggestion.

People seem to read only the title thread

They don't even care to read the opening post anymore, just the opening post, at least. Since right there I made it perfectly clear that I don't just suggest that all bitcoins sitting idly for a predetermined period of time should be blindly repatriated. This is only one option, though now I tend toward the two other options which I later added to the opening post as well

Well you should stress that this would be optional. I did read that part, but since it wasn't given emphasis and clearly explained how it would work with the existing protocol you can't blame people for ignoring it.

I have changed the OP

It kinda seems that a lot of people at first start reading the OP, then they halfway realize that someone is going to take away their precious bitcoins after a certain period of time, and instead of reading the post to the end, submit an angry reply condemning the thread author as a traitor of Bitcoin or something to that tune

Capradina

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:42:14 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 07:33:17 AM

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3571254

A lot of relevant discussion was also in this 2011 thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-proposed-solution-to-adjust-for-lost-bitcoins-wallet-heartbeats-20799

I looked at the thread and it is not what I suggest here

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

To OP, as someone who has stored some bitcoins in a cold wallet in a safety deposit box I don't appreciate this suggestion.

People seem to read only the title thread

They don't even care to read the opening post anymore, just the opening post, at least. Since right there I made it perfectly clear that I don't just suggest that all bitcoins sitting idly for a predetermined period of time should be blindly repatriated. This is only one option, though now I tend toward the two other options which I later added to the opening post as well

Well you should stress that this would be optional. I did read that part, but since it wasn't given emphasis and clearly explained how it would work with the existing protocol you can't blame people for ignoring it.

Everyone should do something in accordance with a protocol that has been specified and if it cannot be done properly or not do or implement the Protocol properly then what we do is going to be a bad thing. Everyone indeed will essentially be a good thing if they can control themselves and they can do something extraordinary things. So do something good and never ever wrong in thinking of something a bad thing

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 07:33:17 AM

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3571254

A lot of relevant discussion was also in this 2011 thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-proposed-solution-to-adjust-for-lost-bitcoins-wallet-heartbeats-20799

I looked at the thread and it is not what I suggest here

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

To OP, as someone who has stored some bitcoins in a cold wallet in a safety deposit box I don't appreciate this suggestion.

People seem to read only the title thread

They don't even care to read the opening post anymore, just the opening post, at least. Since right there I made it perfectly clear that I don't just suggest that all bitcoins sitting idly for a predetermined period of time should be blindly repatriated. This is only one option, though now I tend toward the two other options which I later added to the opening post as well

Well you should stress that this would be optional. I did read that part, but since it wasn't given emphasis and clearly explained how it would work with the existing protocol you can't blame people for ignoring it.

deisik

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

Quote from: deisik on December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3571254

A lot of relevant discussion was also in this 2011 thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-proposed-solution-to-adjust-for-lost-bitcoins-wallet-heartbeats-20799

I looked at the thread, and it is not what I suggest here

Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

To OP, as someone who has stored some bitcoins in a cold wallet in a safety deposit box I don't appreciate this suggestion.

People seem to read only the thread title

They don't even care to read the opening post anymore, just the opening post, at the very least. While right there I made it perfectly clear that I don't just suggest that all bitcoins sitting idly for a predetermined period of time should be blindly repatriated. This is only one option (likely not a very good one), but it allowed to think about a few other ideas toward which I now tend and which had been later added to the opening post as well, so that people wouldn't be furiously and thoughtlessly attacking me all over again. But they still are, wtf

warwar

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Quote from: abel1337 on December 11, 2016, 12:06:25 PM

Quote from: Mastsetad on December 11, 2016, 11:39:07 AM

Quote from: Khailerdaz on December 11, 2016, 11:23:31 AM

What can I do with my lost bitcoins? Nothing, because it disappear quickly so I will start a new one then I wouldn't do the same as my past. I learned from my past so I will be more careful with my new bitcoins. I will do double time to earn more bitcoins then I will use it in good not for gambling.

Someone would obviously not be able to do anything with his lost bitcoins, so they have to be careful before losing them that they don't lose them anywhere because once they are lost then they can only try earning more but cannot get the lost ones.

Thats right you need to be careful in using your bitcoins because if you loose your bitcoin it aint go back to you It will disappear on an edge.
if you send it to wrong address and if someone notices that your bitcoin is sent wrong , It can go back into your wallet if you sent it to a good person

I do agree if you send you bitcoin into wrong wallet and then that person generous then he/she could send it back to you but the problem is that if there is still person like that one? As my self im very careful in sending big amount of bitcoins because i know 1 mistakes makes me cry. So be careful on sending

Topic: What to do with lost bitcoins (Read 5600 times)