Pages:
Author

Topic: What to do with lost bitcoins - page 2. (Read 5600 times)

donator
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1012
December 13, 2016, 07:11:45 AM

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-this-idea-to-counter-lost-bitcoins-possible-131101

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3571254

A lot of relevant discussion was also in this 2011 thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-proposed-solution-to-adjust-for-lost-bitcoins-wallet-heartbeats-20799

To OP, as someone who has stored some bitcoins in a cold wallet in a safety deposit box I don't appreciate this suggestion.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Wolf
December 13, 2016, 07:07:47 AM
Yes it will be great to circulate the coins but how can we do that if bitcoin is decentralized and no one controls it but the owner of the particular wallet only .  So let's just avoid losing it instead like what they say prevention is better than the cure  . We should always keep a number of back ups of our private keys, One is for personal use and the other is for others to view in case something happens to you like you should put it in your last will or something
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
December 13, 2016, 03:31:24 AM
if at any given time i lost my bitcoin all i have to do is to be more care full next time so that i do not repeat that same mistake again because time is money and money is time,in fat i just have to be careful at all time cause getting money or getting one bitcoin is not easy to come by
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 13, 2016, 03:12:30 AM
dear god. Not this again.
Yep.

Within 8 minutes of the thread being created, I suggested locking the topic. Then, I reported it to the moderators suggesting that they remove (or at least lock) the topic.

Unfortunately, it seems that this forum is now more interested in nonsense traffic than actually being a useful source of information.

If you don't have anything to say on the topic in a constructive way, I think it is better not to say anything at all

You yourself made two useless posts in this thread that actually generated nothing else but "nonsense traffic", and instead of just walking away (as I suggested, but you have obviously still been sticking around), you chose to pull moderators here wasting their time, which might have been otherwise spent on fighting with real spam (and you could do that too, by the way). If you don't agree with something and consider it as nonsense, think that other people may not share your views altogether. You don't need to reply to this post and start a flame war (you may even delete your both posts here, I don't mind, but I don't care either, just in case)

...one might search for one of the dozens of previous discussions on this exact same topic. Or I could save you the trouble by stating the short conclusion reached time after time after time: No.

Show me just one link where there was a discussion of what I suggest here (but read at least the OP first and read it full)
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4801
December 12, 2016, 04:28:52 PM
dear god. Not this again.
Yep.

Within 8 minutes of the thread being created, I suggested locking the topic. Then, I reported it to the moderators suggesting that they remove (or at least lock) the topic.

Unfortunately, it seems that this forum is now more interested in nonsense traffic than actually being a useful source of information.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1660
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
December 12, 2016, 04:20:00 PM
We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest ...
In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

dear god. Not this again.

Quote
To avoid asking and answering the same things all over again...

...one might search for one of the dozens of previous discussions on this exact same topic. Or I could save you the trouble by stating the short conclusion reached time after time after time: No.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 12, 2016, 11:53:32 AM
I've read the OP very well. And I understand what your point comes down to. But obviously you didn't read nor understood my response.

There is no - and I repeat - no (zero) justification to redistribute coins that are allegedly unused/abandoned/inaccessible for whatever reason. The only possible motive to do something like this is socialist greed, which is at the same time unfounded, because the buying power of each Bitcoin automatically increases anyway by the simple logic I've outlined

I don't really know what you actually read, but I made a clarification on my opening post (in the OP itself) and even marked it as important. I still think that you somehow missed that part since it does specifically address the issue which you are coming up with (or against) here, i.e. "coins that are allegedly unused/abandoned/inaccessible"...

Here is the clarification, if you don't mind reading it

What about adding some parameter which would basically say that the coins from this wallet shouldn't be moved under any circumstances with default being set to donating them after some period. That might work very much like organ donation, and the way voluntary consent is obtained (opt-in vs opt-out). In this case, both options can be used, i.e. in the case of an opt-out the coins of anyone who has not explicitly refused to donate them will be moved after the expiration of the timeout, or that timeout period could be set by default to infinity effectively meaning that the coins should never be moved. That would be the opt-in option, i.e. only the coins of those who have given explicit consent will be donated

As you can see, in the case of the opt-in option, coins won't be moved unless explicitly ordered to be moved
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1024
December 12, 2016, 11:39:38 AM
You seem to be a crazy socialist with dictatorial ambitions. Your intent is to steal property from individuals to redistribute it for the "common good". The "common good" is a term often used in socialist dictatorships to justify random acts of expropriation and despotism.

There is no rationale besides socialist greed to justify redistribution of unmoved coins. Such acts stand against the whole concept of Bitcoin as a decentralized non-political currency. Doing so would destroy Bitcoin's entire value proposition by making it subject to political influence and I would abandon Bitcoin immediately

If you had read the thread (or just the clarification added to the OP), you would have known that I talk about the wallets (or certain transactions related to such a wallet) whose owners intentionally and willingly chose to close their wallets after a certain amount of time with coins being either moved or rendered unmined. The reason why people might want to do that, I explained in the thread...

But you seem not to care much about details which make your considerations totally inappropriate

All unmoved coins automatically contribute to the buying power of all holders, because these Bitcoin are not spent. Therefore there are fewer Bitcoin available in the market, leading to an increase in the buying power of every single moving unit

I'm curious if you even remotely understand that what you say in the quoted text is the perfect example of the "socialist greed" that you have been attacking just a few sentences above?

Sadly, arguing with you seems to be a waste of time, because you write a lot without providing a single argument that refutes my assessment of your plan

How can I provide an argument if you obviously didn't even read the OP up to the end to get an understanding what my point comes down to? I guess I cannot possibly object to something which I didn't even claim. Just in case, the question is not about whether wallet owners want to destroy their private keys altogether. Is this the "assessment" you are talking about? If it is, you'd better read at least the opening post again (and still better the whole thread). I never mentioned anything which could be interpreted as "coin holders intentionally destroying their private keys"...

It would be nice if you chose to reveal where you got this idea from

You (intentionally?) missed to quote my full response. So here is the relevant part again:

It doesn't matter at all whether coin holders intentionally destroy their private keys or not. There is no mandate to redistribute coins, that are no longer accessible. If a certain holder wanted to redistribute his wealth, he/she could have done so by initiating a transaction. Not doing so can only be interpreted as not wanting to and therefore rules out distribution of funds for the "common good".

My simple description of the effect of unmoved coins does not contain any psychological intent. It's just a natural law. It invalidates the whole need of a procedure for the purposes that you've outlined.


I've read the OP very well. And I understand what your point comes down to. But obviously you didn't read nor understood my response.

There is no - and I repeat - no (zero) justification to redistribute coins that are allegedly unused/abandoned/inaccessible for whatever reason. The only possible motive to do something like this is socialist greed, which is at the same time unfounded, because the buying power of each Bitcoin automatically increases anyway by the simple logic I've outlined.

I will not engage in further discussion, because it is fruitless.

ya.ya.yo!
hero member
Activity: 3164
Merit: 675
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
December 11, 2016, 02:43:47 PM
No. It's just like dormant accounts with bank that remain unaccessed for a long and the bank freezes the accounts. That doesn't give the bank the liability to use that frozen money as it will always be the account holders funds that remain in the account even if he has no heir to claim it. The method you are suggesting to get back all those coins is termed as an illegal method and if those people have lost access or their private keys, they should find a method to get them back and if it's lost, it's gone. Who knows in future there may be a way the owners may be able to get access to those accounts? Nothing is impossible.
And yes how would we know if a particular address is lost or the owner uses it as a cold storage address, like some people have a habit of storing and holding bitcoins. And if we take their coins, later they claim they had access to it, won't it be too messy and too awkward ?
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 510
December 11, 2016, 02:32:41 PM
Any attempt to remine lost coins would be a breakdown of the fundamental purpose of Bitcoin. There is no way to know which addresses have lost coins in them because the owner could simply be saving them. That owner has the right to save them for hundreds of years (passing them down to family). We just have to accept that there are some lost coins that can't be recovered. If you think an address has lost coins in it the only way to get them is to keep trying to guess the private key.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 11, 2016, 01:10:05 PM
You seem to be a crazy socialist with dictatorial ambitions. Your intent is to steal property from individuals to redistribute it for the "common good". The "common good" is a term often used in socialist dictatorships to justify random acts of expropriation and despotism.

There is no rationale besides socialist greed to justify redistribution of unmoved coins. Such acts stand against the whole concept of Bitcoin as a decentralized non-political currency. Doing so would destroy Bitcoin's entire value proposition by making it subject to political influence and I would abandon Bitcoin immediately

If you had read the thread (or just the clarification added to the OP), you would have known that I talk about the wallets (or certain transactions related to such a wallet) whose owners intentionally and willingly chose to close their wallets after a certain amount of time with coins being either moved or rendered unmined. The reason why people might want to do that, I explained in the thread...

But you seem not to care much about details which make your considerations totally inappropriate

All unmoved coins automatically contribute to the buying power of all holders, because these Bitcoin are not spent. Therefore there are fewer Bitcoin available in the market, leading to an increase in the buying power of every single moving unit

I'm curious if you even remotely understand that what you say in the quoted text is the perfect example of the "socialist greed" that you have been attacking just a few sentences above?

Sadly, arguing with you seems to be a waste of time, because you write a lot without providing a single argument that refutes my assessment of your plan

How can I provide an argument if you obviously didn't even read the OP up to the end to get an understanding what my point comes down to? I guess I cannot possibly object to something which I didn't even claim. Just in case, the question is not about whether wallet owners want to destroy their private keys altogether. Is this the "assessment" you are talking about? If it is, you'd better read at least the opening post again (and still better the whole thread). I never mentioned anything which could be interpreted as "coin holders intentionally destroying their private keys"...

It would be nice if you chose to reveal where you got this idea from
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1024
December 11, 2016, 12:45:16 PM
You seem to be a crazy socialist with dictatorial ambitions. Your intent is to steal property from individuals to redistribute it for the "common good". The "common good" is a term often used in socialist dictatorships to justify random acts of expropriation and despotism.

There is no rationale besides socialist greed to justify redistribution of unmoved coins. Such acts stand against the whole concept of Bitcoin as a decentralized non-political currency. Doing so would destroy Bitcoin's entire value proposition by making it subject to political influence and I would abandon Bitcoin immediately

If you had read the thread (or just the clarification added to the OP), you would have known that I talk about the wallets (or certain transactions related to such a wallet) whose owners intentionally and willingly chose to close their wallets after a certain amount of time with coins being either moved or rendered unmined. The reason why people might want to do that, I explained in the thread...

But you seem not to care much about details which make your considerations totally inappropriate

All unmoved coins automatically contribute to the buying power of all holders, because these Bitcoin are not spent. Therefore there are fewer Bitcoin available in the market, leading to an increase in the buying power of every single moving unit

I'm curious if you even remotely understand that what you say in the quoted text is the perfect example of the "socialist greed" that you have been attacking just a few sentences above?

Sadly, arguing with you seems to be a waste of time, because you write a lot without providing a single argument that refutes my assessment of your plan.

It doesn't matter at all whether coin holders intentionally destroy their private keys or not. There is no mandate to redistribute coins, that are no longer accessible. If a certain holder wanted to redistribute his wealth, he/she could have done so by initiating a transaction. Not doing so can only be interpreted as not wanting to and therefore rules out distribution of funds for the "common good".

My simple description of the effect of unmoved coins does not contain any psychological intent. It's just a natural law. It invalidates the whole need of a procedure for the purposes that you've outlined.

ya.ya.yo!
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 11, 2016, 12:22:31 PM
You seem to be a crazy socialist with dictatorial ambitions. Your intent is to steal property from individuals to redistribute it for the "common good". The "common good" is a term often used in socialist dictatorships to justify random acts of expropriation and despotism.

There is no rationale besides socialist greed to justify redistribution of unmoved coins. Such acts stand against the whole concept of Bitcoin as a decentralized non-political currency. Doing so would destroy Bitcoin's entire value proposition by making it subject to political influence and I would abandon Bitcoin immediately

If you had read the thread (or just the clarification added to the OP), you would have known that I talk about the wallets (or certain transactions related to such a wallet) whose owners intentionally and willingly chose to close their wallets after a certain amount of time with coins being either moved or rendered unmined. The reason why people might want to do that, I explained in the thread...

But you seem not to care much about details which make your considerations totally inappropriate

All unmoved coins automatically contribute to the buying power of all holders, because these Bitcoin are not spent. Therefore there are fewer Bitcoin available in the market, leading to an increase in the buying power of every single moving unit

I'm curious if you even remotely understand that what you say in the quoted text is the perfect example of the "socialist greed" that you have been attacking just a few sentences above?
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1145
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
December 11, 2016, 12:06:25 PM
What can I do with my lost bitcoins? Nothing, because it disappear quickly so I will start a new one then I wouldn't do the same as my past. I learned from my past so I will be more careful with my new bitcoins. I will do double time to earn more bitcoins then I will use it         in good not for gambling.

Someone would obviously not be able to do anything with his lost bitcoins, so they have to be careful before losing them that they don't lose them anywhere because once they are lost then they can only try earning more but cannot get the lost ones.
Thats right you need to be careful in using your bitcoins because if you loose your bitcoin it aint go back to you It will disappear on an edge.
if you send it to wrong address and if someone notices that your bitcoin is sent wrong , It can go back into your wallet if you sent it to a good person
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 250
December 11, 2016, 11:39:07 AM
What can I do with my lost bitcoins? Nothing, because it disappear quickly so I will start a new one then I wouldn't do the same as my past. I learned from my past so I will be more careful with my new bitcoins. I will do double time to earn more bitcoins then I will use it         in good not for gambling.

Someone would obviously not be able to do anything with his lost bitcoins, so they have to be careful before losing them that they don't lose them anywhere because once they are lost then they can only try earning more but cannot get the lost ones.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1024
December 11, 2016, 11:37:10 AM
We all know that there can be no more than 21M bitcoins. We also know that every day some bitcoins get lost forever. That means that they still exist on the blockchain, but no one can access them since the keys are lost. I don't think that this is a right thing. We should recover these coins somehow, and that issue could be addressed eventually. I suggest setting a grace period of, say, 10 years (or 50 years if 10 years is too little) after which all wallets that remain untouched during that time and not reclaimed by anyone, should be declared as public property. The transactions that credited these bitcoins to such a wallet should be cancelled (just like correcting entries are made in a real ledger), and the coins should be moved to a new wallet, for example, to finance scientific research...

In this way, we will always have 21M bitcoins after the last bitcoin is mined and can also "resurrect" lost bitcoins for the common good

To avoid asking and answering the same things all over again, I add below important clarification:

You seem to be a crazy socialist with dictatorial ambitions. Your intent is to steal property from individuals to redistribute it for the "common good". The "common good" is a term often used in socialist dictatorships to justify random acts of expropriation and despotism.

There is no rationale besides socialist greed to justify redistribution of unmoved coins. Such acts stand against the whole concept of Bitcoin as a decentralized non-political currency. Doing so would destroy Bitcoin's entire value proposition by making it subject to political influence and I would abandon Bitcoin immediately.

Besides that the rationale behind your whole idea is nonsensical waste to begin with: All unmoved coins automatically contribute to the buying power of all holders, because these Bitcoin are not spent. Therefore there are fewer Bitcoin available in the market, leading to an increase in the buying power of every single moving unit.

ya.ya.yo!
newbie
Activity: 18
Merit: 0
December 11, 2016, 11:23:31 AM
What can I do with my lost bitcoins? Nothing, because it disappear quickly so I will start a new one then I wouldn't do the same as my past. I learned from my past so I will be more careful with my new bitcoins. I will do double time to earn more bitcoins then I will use it         in good not for gambling.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1058
December 11, 2016, 08:35:11 AM
#99
I don't like the idea. As Andreas antonopoulos put it, the blockchain (the bitcoin blockchain that is) is a "monument to perpetuity" or something like that. Whatever happens cannot be changed. I would not like the idea of money moving without my consent only because it's not moved for x years.
What if in the future cryotechnology works and Hal is revived after like 500 years and he finds out all of his money is in the hands of random people?
Actually if something cannot happen doesn't quite mean that its a bad or worst idea. If you see that bitcoins are lost everyday and every minute and if that continues a time will come when most of the coins would be lost.

But still I think that while its good to recover lost coins but the amount lost is not too significant and if lost coins would be recovered so easily how would they learn ?
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 10, 2016, 03:57:42 PM
#98
We don't have to think about those lost bitcoins for they are totally lost forever and there is no way to recover it. Unless those people who forgotten their private keys will remember it again and then recovers their bitcoin if they still wanted to invest and use their bitcoins.
I guess you did not read the full topic mate, actually thoselost bitcoins if brought back in regulation would make it much better since more the bitcoins in regulation better it is. And the lost amount is not 100-200 bitcoins but enormous amounts are lost everyday. Though I don't see a technical way of doing it

There is an easy way of doing exactly that, on technical terms

It will just not get accepted, at least, for now. Whether miners' attitude might change in the future is pretty much unknown. But to say that it is totally impossible would be an oversimplification of matters. In any case, I don't see any viable reason against allowing wallet owners to set an expiry period for their wallets or certain transactions. As I have already explained it, that would be a will of sorts done in a decentralized way
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 502
December 10, 2016, 03:34:12 PM
#97
We don't have to think about those lost bitcoins for they are totally lost forever and there is no way to recover it. Unless those people who forgotten their private keys will remember it again and then recovers their bitcoin if they still wanted to invest and use their bitcoins.
I guess you did not read the full topic mate, actually thoselost bitcoins if brought back in regulation would make it much better since more the bitcoins in regulation better it is. And the lost amount is not 100-200 bitcoins but enormous amounts are lost everyday. Though I don't see a technical way of doing it.
Pages:
Jump to: