Topic: What will be Boris legacy? (Read 265 times)

russian billionaires are same trash as western and EU billionaires, i am not part of their club, so i hate all of them

Difficult to know for sure. Obviously the Russians are pro-Brexit though. They will do anything to reduce the power and influence of the massive EU power bloc on their western border. If they can take the UK out of the EU, then the EU is considerably diminished, and after brexit the EU will then turn its focus a lot more to what is happening on its western border, the UK, rather than focusing on its eastern border.

Wonder if its true.
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-accused-of-burying-report-russian-influence-on-brexit-2019-10

Seems to be a bunch of businesses moving assets out of the UK
https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/23/companies-collapsed-moved-abroad-since-brexit-10795029/

-Dave

True. But I haven't seen anything to suggest my original position is wrong - that the UK gets better trade deals as part of the EU than it will as a stand-alone nation. The days of empire are long gone. Britain is a small and, in global terms, unimportant country. We don't rank with the heavyweights. We're not the US, Russia, China. We're not the EU.

A small country has less negotiating power than it does as part of a larger bloc. A small country gets worse trade deals.

Ok all of that is nice and all, but all of this is anecdotal. The truth is that England needs the EU trade, deals, but that doesnt mean that England needs to be in the EU for that. Check here if ya want to see real data, instead of whatever you've built into your head.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

No I didn't! 500% is absurd. If your point is that we would all be 10-20% poorer then okay, that sounds just great. 



I may disagree with you on some points, but I agree 100% with this one. I'm sick of the conveyer belt of Eton -> Oxbridge -> Parliament. It's given us a succession of posh idiots who are far more concerned about themselves than about the welfare of the country. Boris, Rees-Mogg, Cameron etc don't really have any political ideas or expertise, all they want to do is swan around saying 'look at me, I'm PM!'

anyway, back to the topic

boris's legacy

knowing the EU deal is not about what boris has control of because the reality is its a decision between the EU and the commons all coming to an agreeable vote on each side. with boris just being the messenger

if cameron, May, Boris had the deciding power then the commons would not have ruled out anything and current/previous prime ministers would have just done what they wanted.

so boris's legacy is not the EU. as thats a process thats outside of his power.

boris's only legacy was to be able to say he was PM just to stay famous in the elistist crowd of the bullingdon boys club

higher import prices??
you make it sound like 500% increase.. sorry to re-inform you. think more like 10-20% increase. which as we all know and i already mentioned the UK is resiliant at buffering out or not caring about 10-20% changes. we are used to it.

just last month bread was £1 a loaf, last week it was £1.50. i bet i will go to the shop next month and it will be somewhere between £1 and £1.50. we are completely used to price changes. so we wont see the impact. its not going to feel anything like some apocalyptic hyper inflation scenario in any way.

and like i said if things d go drastic, great, we make our own and sell it to the people that wanna charge us more because we can then make our own cheaper.

fun fact. did you know increasing the national minimum wage from £7.50(march '18) to £8.21(april '19) would have caused more financial impact than customs fees.

what people dont know is EU is similar climate to uk so what they can grow we can grow, the only hinderance of us growing our own was mainly the farming quotas which we wont be subjected to. thus a new farming revolution can restart. the other stuff like oranges pineapples and banana's come from southern america an such and not really going to b much of an issue.

once you wash away al the media apocalypse fearmongering that simply want to blame a prime minister whos only been in the job for a couple months.. you start to see the real stuff of how the individual farmers get positives out of it

@Jet Cash considering you live in UK your statements matters a lot on this topic, and I have to admit I too had my doubts about a sustainable UK post Brexit, but reading your statements I’m finally getting a clear picture. Now we will have to wait till December as elections are scheduled then, and Boris will need a big win to push forward his Brexit deal.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/29/mps-reject-early-election-december-9-11007870/

Yes a falling pound will benefit exporters, but at the same time it will mean higher import prices. The UK isn't a manufacturing powerhouse any more. We don't have an export-driven economy. A falling pound has a small beneficial effect and a larger detrimental effect.

first of all.. customs fees are not 500% not 100% not 50% but 10% 20%

guess what.
the euro/pound exchange rate has changed by OVER 20% and guess what.. people dont notice
our country is used to paying £1 for 4 pints of milk in one store and £1.20 in another without making a fuss about it

heck we have a store called poundland that used to sell everything thy stocked for £1 each.. now before brexit is even a 'cost' problem thy sell things for £2 and no on is making a fuss

20% increase in price wont make a difference
2litres of asda(walmart) ownbrand lemonade going from 18p to 20p aint going to deter people from acid burning their teeth and stomach lining. heck many people didnt care much for the sugar tax increase.

but here is the thing
imagine a farmer who makes and exports aberdeen angus meet at £10 a kg.. imagine europeans bought a kg for 11.60euro and after brexit with cost changes and exchangerate changes that 11.60euro gets the farmer £11
yep if pound hit 1:1euro 11.60 euros-20% customs tax=£11

so the farmer now gets £11
meaning we PROFIT from EXPORTING
this means we make bigger farms as we dont have to follow EU quotas no more, we get to sell more meat and get more money for the meat.

I wasn't defending supermarkets or advocating their business model, it was just an analogy to demonstrate that the bigger you are, the more negotiating power you have. A standalone Britain isn't going to get any great trade deals.

About food quality, I agree that it has deteriorated due to big business, but I dont think leaving the EU will help, especially with an aggressively right wing UK government waiting to dismantle all regulations and standards.

My problem isn't with leaving the EU as such, it's with leaving whilst the Tories are in charge. The EU does offer some protection from that.

Wow - what a load of misconceptions there are in this thread.

Britain built the largest empire the world has ever seen, and it is still in existence. The City of London is a more important financial centre than New York, and over half of the Western World's wealth is controlled through it. Leaving the EU is not xenophobic, quite the reverse. The EU is a restrictive trading structure, with trade barriers that have restricted it's growth, A free UK wants to trade with the whole world, and not just the EU. Part of the reason for Britain's tremendous growth has been a free approach to beneficial immigration, however, recently we seem to be having to support a load of leeches and political activists attempting to destroy centuries of culture and a good political system.

The deals that supermarkets do are against the interests of the consumer. Tesco has destroyed Hovis by forcing them to drive down prices at the expense of quality. This allowed Warburtons to rise, but many people still buy Hovis because that is what they have always bought. Food quality has taken a massive dive since we were forced to accept the lower EU standards. Many traditional apple orchards were burnt, and now we have cheap French pappy apples forced on us. Our fish is caught by EU fishermen, and we are forced to pay for imports of fish caught in our waters, and pay our unemployed fishermen state benefits.

There really is a lot more like this that one can say, but the real problem is not the membership of the EU, but the control that the City of London has over the UK as well as the EU ( and America ). The five eyes partnership has massive control over the world warmongering, and the EU is not a part of that, this is because they aren't part of the Anglophone empire. The Five Eyes is an intelligence alliance between The UK, Washington, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Digressing slightly, but I'm aware that a decent-sized chunk of the more stupid section of society voted leave because they are racist xenophobes who especially dislike people with a non-white skin colour - they thought leaving the EU means no more immigrants, failing to realise that obviously the UK still needs immigrant labour, and leaving the EU means that migration in from commenwealth countries will likely increase to fill the gap... thus increasing the 'non-white' part of the population that they hate so much.

Not suggesting anyone on this forum thinks like that, I'm referring more to some of the half-wits you see on TV vox pops.

Eh, that's not how the world works these days and thats not going to be best for the consumers and companies of England. You have to understand that while Globalism has hurt certain people -- think of factory workers in the US, or something along those lines -- these savings have been passed along to the consumers as the cost of goods have decreased.

If you are to shut off your country to the outside and try protectionism you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot. Here are some of the reasons.
1. Your country may not even make all of the goods that you import. Could hurt consumers that need certain goods.
2. Your country most likely is going to make the goods that you've been importing for a more expensive price - meaning consumers are going to have to pay more for the same goods (maybe even less quality)
3. Your countries business are going to have to pay more for importing goods that they use -- decreasing profits and increasing the costs of goods. This could lead to less profits -- layoffs, increased cost of goods, etc.

Free and fair trade deals are what the world needs.

if we leave without trade deals GREAT.
i say this because if we cant import cheaply.. we then go back to making our own again = more jobs, farms, self sustainability.

that said vn if we dont get the EU central crew to agree to a deal, we can just do independant deals with the 5-6 main countries that border the continents coastline facing us.

after all we dont need to worry much about italy, poland, and such as the delivery trucks have to pass through france or germany so we only ned to have a deal with those gateways to get stuff to us

as for anyone thinking there is no way countries will do deals.. well america, africa, south america, russia, india, china etc are not EU partners but they have deals. so obviously so can we.

what people also keep forgetting is the UK is part of the commonwealth and the EU rely on the UK to get through to commonwealth countries

but anyway, the main benefit in a worse case scenario is that if it costs more to buy eu stuff, we simply mess with the pound/euro exchange rate to compensate for the change and soften the blow. aswell as not import as much by making more of our own.

if you really think that not being in the EU is a bad issue then 150 countries that are not eu must really be suffering..(but they aint)

I do agree with parts of what you say, but the idea they keep floating that we get better trade deals as an independent nation is just nonsense.

Here's an analogy: look at any town in Britain, it used to be full of independent grocers, but now they have all gone out of business and been supplanted by behemoth supermarket chains. Why? Why can a supermarket get better prices from supplies than an independent grocer can? It's a question of scale. They have huge purchasing power with which to drive hard bargains. If a supermarket can buy a product for £1, but the independent grocer can only buy it for £1.30, then the supermarket just sells for £1.29, makes a decent profit, and the independent grocer is guaranteed to fail.

Britain is a small country with limited purchasing power. We get a much better deal as part of the EU. Think of Britain trying to strike a deal with the US or China. We can't drive a hard bargain, we have to just take whatever is offered, and the UK will get bled dry. Look at all the US healthcare companies hovering in readiness, vampires waiting to strike at the NHS.

Boris and his family are Eton/Oxford bankers, and their Anglosphere empire controls the EU (  and the UK ) , of course he wants us to stay shackled to their empire. I can understand that, but I can't understand why ordinary people want to stay in the imploding EU. Apart from the £39billion "divorce bill", there is a further £30billion obligation to the ECB if we don't get out with a real Brexit, and there is a probable future £100 billion to pay, as they try to keep the corpse afloat in the future.

The only way forward for the UK is a clean break with no political or military dependence ( read "deal" ), followed by 5 or 6 trade deals. Even if Britain can manage to get a clean break, the EU puppet masters in the City of London will still control the judiciary, the civil service, the government, and the education system. It will probably take a revolution to get rid of that lot. I feel sorry for the countries left in the EU. It is controlled by an Anglophone empire ( legacy of Cecil Rhodes ), and they don't speak English, so they are all considered to be lesser mortals, to be robbed and enslaved. ( not my opinion of Europeans ).

Everything that surrounds Brexit seems there is more to the eyes. Most times people outside the corridors of power are the good critics until when they get they get to that seat, they understand that their predecessor was actually not playing around which is exactly what is happening to Boris. As a proponent of Brexit himself, he has now see that Theresa May was not just joking around. If he can pull it off, then that would be a legacy that his generation who wants to go into politics would continue to capitalise on. But until then, this is serious hard work for him to navigate out of.

If Boris will successfully achieved the brexit then his legacy will be  to have Britain acquire back its full autonomy and its identity. When you are part of the European Union there are pros and cons and one of the cons is that somehow the control over your country will be affected by the Union. Thus exiting the union will allow britain to have full control over its resources, politics and decisions and etc.  And also leaving the European Union means savings on the part of Britain since if they are no longer part of the UE then they will no longer give out some funds as required by the Union. Thus Boris will have those legacy to Britain. But somehow its not easy to push the brexit since there are many oppositions.