Topic: What will happen with Bitcoin if it never scales? - page 9. (Read 11417 times)

Maybe bitcoin is just an asset and will not be used as a means of payment as it is today. And maybe even Ethereum could be the best to replace bitcoin.

The problem of scaling has been studied for a long time. The first two serious proposals for its correction are contained in BIP 100 and BIP 101, where BIP means "Bitcoin Improvement Proposal". They were introduced in 2015 by the developers of the bitcoin kernel Jeff Garzick and Gavin Andresen, respectively. Both proposals mention an increase in the block size limit, and both these solutions are hard-wired, that is, if implemented, older versions of bitcoin software will be incompatible with the new network.

In general, the bitcoin network is able to work in everyday mode. However, sometimes the load becomes peak and the process becomes more difficult. Many users have reported that they have to wait hours or even days before processing their transactions. There were many ways to solve the problem, but none of them has been implemented to date.

Finally, Bitcoin will be accepted by most of the countries. It will be legalized, and it will be not more forbidden. It will become the most powerful currency.

Exactly. We don't want that to happen with Bitcoin, as it is the reserve currency of all cryptocurrencies in existence. Hence, if Bitcoin fails because of its inability to scale, then altcoins will fail too since they're dependent on Bitcoin's price movements. We've seen many times how altcoins rise in price whenever Bitcoin rises in value.

Therefore, for cryptocurrencies to become mainstream, Bitcoin would need to successfully adopt scalable solutions like the Lightning Network, for others to follow its lead. If Bitcoin scales without issues with LN, then other altcoins can safely adopt Bitcoin's Lightning Network to scale too and have other benefits such as atomic swaps and more. As such, only time will tell whenever Bitcoin will remain a store of value or become an electronic peer-to-peer cash like it was in its early days. Just my thoughts

If bitcoin should never scale, it could lose his position to another, better currency.

Sadly, that might happen with Bitcoin in the future if it doesn't scale to meet the demands of everyday people. Right now, there are many altcoins which are superior than Bitcoin in terms of speed and scalability. They've implemented several features that would allow them to scale with minimal effort whatsoever while preserving the security of the ledger. One good example of this, are DAG-based cryptocurrencies like Nano, IOTA and ByteBall.

Such altcoins have the potential to scale to millions of users, without downtime or a decrease in the network's transaction processing time. If they manage to become extremely popular and adopted in the mainstream world, then they could easily overtake Bitcoin as they'll retain their speeds while maintaining costs as low as possible. And best of all, these DAG-based coins have zero fees which promotes micropayments anytime, anywhere. However, all of this could change if Bitcoin successfully adopts the Lightning Network at a large scale. Once this happens, people will use Bitcoin again as a currency (and not a store of value) allowing its price and demand to increase over time.

Nevertheless, time will tell how and when will Bitcoin scale to attract new people into it. Just my thoughts

I think if bitcoin is never sales, bitcoin cannot grow like today and bitcoin will not reaching more people, bitcoin will stay on the ground without having a chance to known by many people in many countries. we know that bitcoin will grow only if we are spreading bitcoin in many places and without this, bitcoin will disappear and people will abandon the project and leave bitcoin in the dark places. and gladly, after 2010, bitcoin slowly to become popular and from that moment, people trying to know and learn about bitcoin so bitcoin now reach many people from all countries.

The Bitcoin developers are aware of this scalability problem which i know they are seriously working on how to overcome it. They can not just sit and allow other altcoin to take over the market because of the down time and high fees bitcoin is using to conclude a transaction. I believe they are working seriously.

Bitcoin can still exist but will not be able to last forever. Some of the more technologically advanced platforms will replace Bitcoin and crypto. We do not want that to happen

I believe that the scaling problem of the bitcoin that exists nowadays is just because of the fights that they have over the access to this cryptocurrency and the way to control it.

If bitcoin ceases to scale, there will be a very big problem in its usual use for everyday needs. Apparently, it will be used more only for large transactions. This will significantly reduce the demand for it, popularity and its price will drop, but it will still have some value. Investors will gradually switch to the use of other crypto-currencies. Already in China, bitcoin is ranked thirteenth in rating, and in the first place, not surprisingly, not their NEO, but ethereum.

The question is not necessarily about scaling per se (like scaling the block size), but Bitcoin must adopt a way to accomodate a higher transaction stream than it does currently (SegWit was one such solution but it was not enough - we saw it in Dec 2017, true, SegWit was not widely used then).

If it fails to deliver such a solution, than it will not be used as a peer to peer payment system, and consequently its price will spiral down. Slowly at first, but gaining speed. If you want something to be a store of value it must have its utility, and the utility equals payment system.

Was at Crypto Invest Summit earlier and was at the panel discussing Asia and the influence of the Asian markets on the global market.

The discussion began, actually, with a discussion of DEX vs CEX (decentralized exchanges vs centralize) and 2 of the 3 panel guys really seemed to think that Decentralized really isn't the way to go. Easy to money launder, etc, and some other very valid points I can't remember exactly. Miko seemed to think that it was a false dichotomy between the two anyway.

Really interesting guys: Nix Nodello, Miko Matsumara, and a guy from Korbit.

I think he will fall in the price and strongly. No one will stop working with a coin that the government does not support. And with it there can be problems. But then again, time will tell what will happen to bitcoin and expect us a hundred

All coins can scale to visa levels merely by using exchanges or other 3rd party processors to process offchain transactions.
Those offchain methods work right now without the complexities or limitations of lightning network.

The fallacy that was thrust upon your mindset , was that Segwit/LN was the only offchain solution, well it is not , and it won't even be the best.

Store of value is a sticky subject, because in my mind for it to be a store of value it needs a utility, ie: payment system or some other function.

True stores of value such as gold, when their price drops , the utility usage buys more ,
ie: Gold price drops, and more gold gets used in electronics or in dental filling or jewelry as it become cheaper for a utility usage.
It can only be considered a store of value if it keeps going up in price or maintains it's price.

Bitcoin no longer has a good utility usage as it is cheaper and faster to send other coins.
Plus it production cost per coin is now on average ~$3000 to $7000 per bitcoin depending on what country the asics are in.

During the past few months , it has not been an appreciating asset but a depreciating asset, so that destroys it as a store of value.  

You can say the Bankers are manipulating the prices lower by restricting who can buy bitcoins,
and that wall street type are creating a mindset decreasing the perceived value per bitcoin by manipulating the futures markets, and you be right.

But you also have the tether scam where they are artificially inflating the price of bitcoin using a fraudulent fraction reserve system called tether without 3rd party verification they own any real US dollars.

So you have shenanigans deflating and inflating the price of bitcoin simultaneously, and at this junction of time, the deflating side is winning.

But offchain scaling is the only thing that is not a real problem whether they ever get LN working or not, as some exchanges already provide it as a service.  

You will come to find in the next year or two that Onchain Scaling was always more important , as transactions can only be deferred for so long offchain,
and without adequate onchain capacity , onchain fees become unmanageable for the majority.

Yes. When Bitcoin started, transaction load was at the minimum level. Since, not everyone was aware of the digital currency, only a few were using it, allowing the Bitcoin network to process transactions without too much stress. However, now that Bitcoin has gained popularity, more people have been transacting on the blockchain, causing Bitcoin to become slow in processing transactions. This of course, can be easily fixed by either increasing the blocksize or implementing the use of the Lightning Network. Once this is done, then Bitcoin could easily scale to a wider audience according to their demands without high costs or slow confirmation times.

However, it would be very disappointing if Bitcoin doesn't scale to handle lot of users daily, since it would just become a mere store of value. Micropayments would become useless, and even small to medium transfers, allowing only large amounts of money to flow over the ledger because of high fees on the same. Hopefully, Bitcoin would take the right direction by upgrading to Layer 2 solutions that will make it practical once again. Just my thoughts

Popularity will contribute to the value of Bitcoin. So, if Bitcoin is not widely known and used then Bitcoin will not be able to raise its value. When people learn that Bitcoin is a digital currency that has outstanding advantages in terms of security and fastness, people will come to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has only a certain amount, according to the rule of supply and demand, the value of Bitcoin increases corresponding to the popularity of Bitcoin.

I concur with you. Bitcoin will prove to be useless as people flee to alternative cryptocurrencies which have better features than Bitcoin and are capable of scaling to a large user base. As time goes by, Bitcoin becomes more of a store of value than a real currency for everyday transactions. On the other hand, Bitcoin Cash is becoming more scalable than Bitcoin and has implemented features that would allow it to expand its use cases from colored coins, to smart contracts, and more.

Therefore, if the original Bitcoin stales in growth by its underlying development team, then other altcoins will take the lead. Bitcoin Cash would eventually serve its purpose as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system, while Bitcoin will stay as a store of value just like Gold.

The problem is, the current landscape of the Bitcoin ecosystem is very different from what it used to be back at the inception of the cryptocurrency. The number of people involved has grown from a few dozens of passionate enthusiasts to over 10 min of everyday users.