What will happen with Bitcoin if it never scales? - page 13.

Abiky

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the biggest problem that is driving people away from bitcoin is the transactions and fee, bitcoin has been for a long time the leader of the cryptocurrency and it will stay that way, but with these problems that it is facing today the alt coins are trying to catch up to it, although they are not as popular as bitcoin.

Completely agree with you, mate. High fees and slow speeds, is what will kill Bitcoin in the long term since it makes payments impractical. However, this may change soon as the Lightning Network becomes active within the Bitcoin network to reduce fees to a minimum and provide near-instant transactions. This might bring back people which used altcoins for lower costs and faster speeds. In effect, Bitcoin's market dominance would be greater as many altcoins would be rendered useless due to the Lightning Network's unrivaled speeds.

Those altcoins which implement the Lightning Network too (like Litecoin and Vertcoin), would see a major boost in scalability like Bitcoin. Therefore, it's safe to say that Bitcoin will eventually scale to a wider audience, promoting greater adoption in the mainstream world. Bitcoin will be cheap and fast like it did in its early days. Just my thoughts Grin

gantez

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If bitcoin doesn't scale up, I think the whole c
digital currency thing would die of. This is simply that bitcoin has proved to be a superhero coin giving life to others. To prove this is the glaring fact of the way the effect of bitcoin has affected every other coin, no one has been able to take the ride upwards yet. They are all waiting for the king. Grin

osasshem

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Fr me, if bitcoin does not scale up, then it will start facing some hard time with other altcoins, cause its fame will no more be there, and a coin might rise up to beat it down with the market cap. But if bitcoin should scale up again, then it will be a store of value and some other altcoins will be used for the daily trades.

freshm4ker

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For me bitcoin as the face of digital currency. When you meet someone and you want to tell them about your digital currency you should first mention bitcoin. You can not mention all the coins, but at least its history will be traced to bitcoin. Even if it never scales it would be a great store value, people would buy it and exchange it with other cryptoes, especially ethereum or dasboard, because they want faster tractionactions. Cool

maryhansenn

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It will become a powerful cryptocurrency and we will use it for every transaction if we want, small or big

bukikbarisan

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The value of Bitcoin is derived solely because it is registered and traded, bitcoin value is nothing without exchange
And the value of stock securities listed and traded in the exchange is based entirely on falsehood, where the value assigned to a particular security is made and unclear.

gabmen

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Quote from: oiucoin on January 30, 2018, 10:23:17 PM

If bitcoin does not have a standard, it will die because it will not be accepted by the majority of people and will not be endorsed by governments in all other countries.

Well obviously it's struggling right now and its dragging the entire market with it. And then add the indian announcement and we're looking now at something to make hodlers a bit worried. Ever since btc rose in popularity, many governments seem to be a bit hostile towards it. But i still see a positive outcome from all this when the smoke clears

deisik

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Quote from: partysumo on January 30, 2018, 03:26:48 PM

Quote from: Justin Dowman on January 29, 2018, 07:29:42 PM

Why raise old, not relevant for today?

I wouldn't say so, the fluctuations we are experiencing nowadays definitely have to do with bitcoin's scalability problem. As far as I understand there is feasible way to address the scalability problem until lightning network gets implemented. Which means the price will not be able to take off like it used to, because if the price increases, the increased traffic on the blockchain will lead to congestions, which leads to increased transaction fees and times, which leads to people losing interest and dumping their coins, creating mini-crashes like the same time.

So the gist of the story is, we need lightning network asap.

I agree that we need LN as soon as possible

But I don't think it is going to change anything with respect to price volatility, at least not directly. The root causes of volatility lie in the lack of Bitcoin's adoption as a means of payment and its almost exclusive use as a vehicle for speculation. Speculation is the ultimate culprit here, long confirmations and high fees don't affect it. Speculation is going on at exchanges, you don't need to transact much if you are engaged in this activity. However, it can be claimed that cheap or free of charge as well as instantly-fast transactions would greatly facilitate Bitcoin's adoption as a full-fledged currency in the real economy and that would lead to lower volatility in due course

Argoo

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If scaling bitcoin is not carried out, it will mean that it will not provide everyone in transactions and transactions will hang. In this regard, demand for bitcoin will fall and, accordingly, its popularity and price will fall. Therefore, if bitcoin does not improve in this plan, it will be devalued and forgotten.
However, I hope that such a scenario will not happen, because SegWit and lightning network are being introduced into it and that's why it is gradually coming back to normal.

oiucoin

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If bitcoin does not have a standard, it will die because it will not be accepted by the majority of people and will not be endorsed by governments in all other countries.

Kaan53

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I think that bitcoin will remain the new and most used currency in the future.

lunaalthea

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Obviously if bitcoin never scales, a lot of people will not put trust in it anymore. People will sell their btc and demand will decrease. We just hope it never happens and that bitcoin is not in its dead end.

partysumo

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Quote from: Justin Dowman on January 29, 2018, 07:29:42 PM

Why raise old, not relevant for today?

I wouldn't say so, the fluctuations we are experiencing nowadays definitely have to do with bitcoin's scalability problem. As far as I understand there is feasible way to address the scalability problem until lightning network gets implemented. Which means the price will not be able to take off like it used to, because if the price increases, the increased traffic on the blockchain will lead to congestions, which leads to increased transaction fees and times, which leads to people losing interest and dumping their coins, creating mini-crashes like the same time.

So the gist of the story is, we need lightning network asap.

deisik

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Quote from: Abiky on January 29, 2018, 01:28:05 PM

Quote from: deisik on January 28, 2018, 04:24:43 AM

I can't quite agree with your thoughts here

And I'll try to explain why. My main concern is that Bitcoin can't possibly become a long-term store of value because there is nothing unique about it. Let's take gold as an example of a true store of value. It is so thanks to the fact that it can't be reproduced and therefore it has no rivals nor competitors. This is definitely not the case with Bitcoin. Apart from that, it also happens that the qualities of gold that are unique to it are quite likable by the vast majority of people. In other words, Bitcoin lacks what gold enjoys, it lacks uniqueness of gold and thus it can't be "digital gold". If it ceases to be an asset for speculation, a vehicle for profiteering, it will soon cease to be an asset at all, losing all value at the end of the day

Interesting observation. In terms of scarcity and price against other cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin is considered as digital gold among investors, traders, and everyday people. But, since Bitcoin is an extremely volatile cryptocurrency and a pure speculative one, it is hard to say if Bitcoin is digital gold or not (when compared to real gold). Right now, Bitcoin is in its very beginnings but things could change if it continues to improve and become recognized as a legal currency or asset in the real world. Once the volatility problem is solved, and other underlying issues such as high fees and slow speeds, then I think that it may deserve the title of digital gold.

In the meantime, Bitcoin will be seen among many people as a medium to profit within a short time frame. Only time will tell if it could keep its value in the long term, or it will fall and become worthless. Just my thoughts Grin

I'm curious where you got this idea from

I mean that Bitcoin is thought of as digital gold by the people you enumerated. I for one don't consider it digital gold or anything to that tune. A highly speculative and thereby volatile asset cannot be gold by definition, digital or otherwise. Gold is a yardstick for invariability and permanence of value. If its price changes, it is rather the value of the currency in which it is priced that changes rather than the value of gold itself. Just in case, for something to be valuable, it is not enough to be scarce, it also should be useful for some purpose

Justin Dowman

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Why raise old, not relevant for today?

Photographer

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I will become an increasingly surreal creature, formerly pretending to be a currency, but then having perhaps 100$ fees or - who knows - perhaps in the long run even 1000$ fees. Until it would at some point suddenly die.

Ozero

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If bitcoin will never scale, it will mean that it will lose its investment appeal and the demand for it will drop, which, accordingly. will lead to its depreciation. At the same time, it will practically cease to function as a means of payment and will remain only as a repository of value. However, if the demand for it is not very large, then the value store from it will already turn out to be small. However, these gloomy forecasts, I think will not come to an end, since Bitcoin was started to implement SegWit, parallel implementation and lightning networks are expected. Already, the time of bitcoin transactions began to decrease and commission fees also. So let's hope that in the near future with bitcoin again everything will be all right.

Abiky

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Quote from: deisik on January 28, 2018, 04:24:43 AM

I can't quite agree with your thoughts here

And I'll try to explain why. My main concern is that Bitcoin can't possibly become a long-term store of value because there is nothing unique about it. Let's take gold as an example of a true store of value. It is so thanks to the fact that it can't be reproduced and therefore it has no rivals nor competitors. This is definitely not the case with Bitcoin. Apart from that, it also happens that the qualities of gold that are unique to it are quite likable by the vast majority of people. In other words, Bitcoin lacks what gold enjoys, it lacks uniqueness of gold and thus it can't be "digital gold". If it ceases to be an asset for speculation, a vehicle for profiteering, it will soon cease to be an asset at all, losing all value at the end of the day

Interesting observation. In terms of scarcity and price against other cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin is considered as digital gold among investors, traders, and everyday people. But, since Bitcoin is an extremely volatile cryptocurrency and a pure speculative one, it is hard to say if Bitcoin is digital gold or not (when compared to real gold). Right now, Bitcoin is in its very beginnings but things could change if it continues to improve and become recognized as a legal currency or asset in the real world. Once the volatility problem is solved, and other underlying issues such as high fees and slow speeds, then I think that it may deserve the title of digital gold.

In the meantime, Bitcoin will be seen among many people as a medium to profit within a short time frame. Only time will tell if it could keep its value in the long term, or it will fall and become worthless. Just my thoughts Grin

deisik

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Quote from: Abiky on December 27, 2017, 12:00:44 PM

Quote from: Faroxx on December 21, 2017, 06:50:45 AM

It seems to me that bitcoin is not affected. Many people perceive within as gold and used for transactions other cryptocurrencies.

True. Even though fees are rising, and transactions are slow on the Bitcoin network, people will continue to use it as a store of value. Since there are many other altcoins which provide faster transaction speeds and cheaper fees than Bitcoin, people have the choice to migrate to these cryptocurrencies for their daily transactions.

So, even if Bitcoin doesn't scale to a full-fledged mainstream cryptocurrency, it will survive for many years to come as digital gold and the reserve currency of all the altcoins in existence. However, while Bitcoin has been struggling with scalability issues, a series of altcoins have emerged that address these problems. Coins like Pascalcoin uses the "SafeBox" mechanism for infinite scalability. On the other hand, we have IOTA and RaiBlocks which have a feeless structure and the ability to scale to a wider audience than the pioneer cryptocurrency.

Nevertheless, it shouldn’t matter if Bitcoin scales or not nowadays since it will be seen among many people as a form of long-term investment and not as a digital cash system for daily payments. Just my thoughts Grin

I can't quite agree with your thoughts here

And I'll try to explain why. My main concern is that Bitcoin can't possibly become a long-term store of value because there is nothing unique about it. Let's take gold as an example of a true store of value. It is so thanks to the fact that it can't be reproduced and therefore it has no rivals nor competitors. This is definitely not the case with Bitcoin. Apart from that, it also happens that the qualities of gold that are unique to it are quite likable by the vast majority of people. In other words, Bitcoin lacks what gold enjoys, it lacks uniqueness of gold and thus it can't be "digital gold". If it ceases to be an asset for speculation, a vehicle for profiteering, it will soon cease to be an asset at all, losing all value at the end of the day

classicsucks

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Quote from: thebanker28 on December 27, 2017, 12:03:09 PM

I think Bitcoin will scale - just in time, This was the same as the internet back in the day. Everone said it would never scale - it was always going to break - but as we know it scaled when it needed to. It wasnt always easy or pretty but it worked. I think Bitcoin will be fine.

Don't you mean "this is fine"?

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