What’s the nature of currency? | Bitcointalksearch.org

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: Ozero on February 09, 2022, 05:15:45 AM

As far as I know, money in the state (cash and non-cash) should be issued as much as there are material values in civil circulation that can be commodities. There is no room for any consensus here, this is pure economics.
It is still difficult for me to say how bitcoins and other crypto-currencies will flow here. States are unlikely to take them into account in general economic processes, but the capitalization of the cryptocurrency is growing and something will need to be done about it.

States do not have to accept them as what they are but only what they can be. If we are talking about a situation where it is not a legal tender but it is allowed for people to accept it and pay with it then we could still technically achieve what we want.

We won't have governmental backing with us when we are doing it, but at the end of the day people all around the world would accept it and that is as good as it gets for us. Plus, if people all used it everywhere then we would be doing fine, it would like legal tender but would be globally. We are still seeing a few places accepting it, that is not rare but that doesn't mean that it is common enough neither unfortunately.

Ozero

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Quote from: Fundamentals Of on August 08, 2021, 10:44:20 PM

I beg to disagree that the nature or essence of currency is consensus, at least not until Bitcoin came. It may be so in a small and primitive community but it cannot be in an advanced and large society.

The fiat currency is made up of a lot of policies, decisions, changes, impositions, etc which are not out of consensus. Of course it could be argued that it is hard to gather the opinions and ideas of everybody and that the very reason why there is a government is that it would act and decide on behalf of the larger population.

However, this is not really the case about fiat. The decisions of the few persons who decide about the direction of the currency are not really reflective of the people's voices and sentiment. So everything is merely imposed on the citizenry whether they like or not.

As far as I know, money in the state (cash and non-cash) should be issued as much as there are material values in civil circulation that can be commodities. There is no room for any consensus here, this is pure economics.
It is still difficult for me to say how bitcoins and other crypto-currencies will flow here. States are unlikely to take them into account in general economic processes, but the capitalization of the cryptocurrency is growing and something will need to be done about it.

Wawa2013

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Quote from: ninkdwi on September 21, 2021, 03:05:28 PM

Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 20, 2021, 06:05:47 PM

Quote from: ninkdwi on September 20, 2021, 02:37:26 PM

this is a problem that has always been debated from the start when a country or government wants to make bitcoin a legal means of payment.
it is not surprising indeed because the main topic when bitcoin will be used as a legal currency, there are pros and cons, especially the volatile problem itself.
The unpredictable nature of bitcoin and the uncertain market that makes it very difficult, that's why there are still many countries that prohibit bitcoin from being used as a legal currency, even though there are already several countries that have carried out large-scale adoption, such as the current Elsavador and Paraguay's plans. which will follow the direction of elsavador

You are absolutely right because Bitcoin price is very volatile and cannot be controlled by anyone, that is the barrier why most countries in the world
still reject Bitcoin as a legal payment. Therefore, when I found out that El Salvador legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was very surprised, because
it was a very brave decision. Now El Salvador is in the spotlight of all countries in the world, if what El Salvador is doing goes well. I believe
in many countries following in El Salvador's footsteps, although indeed in the country of El Salvador itself the population there are pros and cons.
I also actually support if Bitcoin is legalized as a legal tender, but not to replace fiat, because after all fiat is still needed its existence.

but this will not make other countries adopt bitcoin, adoption will certainly occur even though it takes an unpredictable time and not all countries do that.
but I'm sure it's gradual adoption of bitcoin globally will be possible someday.
and indeed this bitcoin will not be controlled by anyone at any time and this is what makes the government think again and again because it will be very risky when the government sets bitcoin as a legal currency without them being able to control it because the policies they make later will have no effect on bitcoins.
and it would be better if using bitcoin adoption but on the other hand adding bitcoin as a legal tender but not removing other currencies or fiat in payments as well, and bitcoin being one of the only options not the main one

With the success of El Salvador it will not guarantee all countries adopt Bitcoin, there are certainly countries that still refuse. Since not
all leaders of countries have open minds, there are some countries that have leaders who are selfish and self-absorbed. It's true that no matter
how good Bitcoin's achievements are, there are always those who hate Bitcoin. Because it is impossible to make everyone in the world like Bitcoin.
But it's not a big problem, the most important thing is that the Bitcoin adoption process continues, and I hope that in the future most countries
in the world adopt Bitcoin. For now we as Bitcoin supporters really can't expect too much, and must admit that there are still few countries that
are willing to legalize Bitcoin as a legal tender. Because it requires a long process, for the government to consider legalizing Bitcoin as a legal tender.

ninkdwi

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 20, 2021, 06:05:47 PM

Quote from: ninkdwi on September 20, 2021, 02:37:26 PM

this is a problem that has always been debated from the start when a country or government wants to make bitcoin a legal means of payment.
it is not surprising indeed because the main topic when bitcoin will be used as a legal currency, there are pros and cons, especially the volatile problem itself.
The unpredictable nature of bitcoin and the uncertain market that makes it very difficult, that's why there are still many countries that prohibit bitcoin from being used as a legal currency, even though there are already several countries that have carried out large-scale adoption, such as the current Elsavador and Paraguay's plans. which will follow the direction of elsavador

You are absolutely right because Bitcoin price is very volatile and cannot be controlled by anyone, that is the barrier why most countries in the world
still reject Bitcoin as a legal payment. Therefore, when I found out that El Salvador legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was very surprised, because
it was a very brave decision. Now El Salvador is in the spotlight of all countries in the world, if what El Salvador is doing goes well. I believe
in many countries following in El Salvador's footsteps, although indeed in the country of El Salvador itself the population there are pros and cons.
I also actually support if Bitcoin is legalized as a legal tender, but not to replace fiat, because after all fiat is still needed its existence.

but this will not make other countries adopt bitcoin, adoption will certainly occur even though it takes an unpredictable time and not all countries do that.
but I'm sure it's gradual adoption of bitcoin globally will be possible someday.
and indeed this bitcoin will not be controlled by anyone at any time and this is what makes the government think again and again because it will be very risky when the government sets bitcoin as a legal currency without them being able to control it because the policies they make later will have no effect on bitcoins.
and it would be better if using bitcoin adoption but on the other hand adding bitcoin as a legal tender but not removing other currencies or fiat in payments as well, and bitcoin being one of the only options not the main one

tygeade

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The adoption of Bitcoin is certain, at least by most of the people if not all. A small and more people continues to adopt the use of Bitcoin, those who doesn’t want to make use of it will also be encouraged to make use of it. Although I still know that there are people who are going to kick against it.

It’s just like it is in El Salvador where there are people who have chosen to adopt Bitcoin and there are also those who are against it. In a case like this I believe people should be free to use whatever they want to make use of: if you choose to make use of Bitcoin then it is up to you and also if you choose to make use of fiat it’s also up to you.

nur rochid

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 20, 2021, 06:05:47 PM

Quote from: ninkdwi on September 20, 2021, 02:37:26 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

It's true that the price of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin is very volatile and it seems quite impossible to see Bitcoin can be used as a legal currency,
what is certain is that if you talk about conditions, of course there are many more as you have said

this is a problem that has always been debated from the start when a country or government wants to make bitcoin a legal means of payment.
it is not surprising indeed because the main topic when bitcoin will be used as a legal currency, there are pros and cons, especially the volatile problem itself.
The unpredictable nature of bitcoin and the uncertain market that makes it very difficult, that's why there are still many countries that prohibit bitcoin from being used as a legal currency, even though there are already several countries that have carried out large-scale adoption, such as the current Elsavador and Paraguay's plans. which will follow the direction of elsavador

You are absolutely right because Bitcoin price is very volatile and cannot be controlled by anyone, that is the barrier why most countries in the world
still reject Bitcoin as a legal payment. Therefore, when I found out that El Salvador legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was very surprised, because
it was a very brave decision. Now El Salvador is in the spotlight of all countries in the world, if what El Salvador is doing goes well. I believe
in many countries following in El Salvador's footsteps, although indeed in the country of El Salvador itself the population there are pros and cons.
I also actually support if Bitcoin is legalized as a legal tender, but not to replace fiat, because after all fiat is still needed its existence.

el salvador became the first country to legalize bitcoin, indeed fluctuations became an obstacle for bitcoin to be used as a currency. especially with the pros and cons in the country, until some bitcoin ATMs were damaged by the masses, then this became a big decision by el salvador. but in my opinion if it is used as an alternative currency instead of fiat I don't think it will be a significant problem

AndySt

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Quote from: Wawa2013 on September 20, 2021, 06:05:47 PM

You are absolutely right because Bitcoin price is very volatile and cannot be controlled by anyone, that is the barrier why most countries in the world still reject Bitcoin as a legal payment. Therefore, when I found out that El Salvador legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was very surprised, because it was a very brave decision. Now El Salvador is in the spotlight of all countries in the world, if what El Salvador is doing goes well. I believe
in many countries following in El Salvador's footsteps, although indeed in the country of El Salvador itself the population there are pros and cons. I also actually support if Bitcoin is legalized as a legal tender, but not to replace fiat, because after all fiat is still needed its existence.

Just the lack of control over the pricing of bitcoin is its main distinguishing feature, its advantage and disadvantage at the same time, depending on which side to look at it. This is what will serve as the main obstacle to the adoption of bitcoin as the main means of payment in any more or less stable state with a strong economy and strong public administration. Because it is difficult or almost impossible to build a normal state economic policy on the basis of a currency that you cannot have any influence on. Therefore, in any case, fiat currencies will remain the main ones in the states, and bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as add-ons or assets with a number of restrictions in a good scenario.

Wawa2013

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Quote from: ninkdwi on September 20, 2021, 02:37:26 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

It's true that the price of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin is very volatile and it seems quite impossible to see Bitcoin can be used as a legal currency,
what is certain is that if you talk about conditions, of course there are many more as you have said

this is a problem that has always been debated from the start when a country or government wants to make bitcoin a legal means of payment.
it is not surprising indeed because the main topic when bitcoin will be used as a legal currency, there are pros and cons, especially the volatile problem itself.
The unpredictable nature of bitcoin and the uncertain market that makes it very difficult, that's why there are still many countries that prohibit bitcoin from being used as a legal currency, even though there are already several countries that have carried out large-scale adoption, such as the current Elsavador and Paraguay's plans. which will follow the direction of elsavador

You are absolutely right because Bitcoin price is very volatile and cannot be controlled by anyone, that is the barrier why most countries in the world
still reject Bitcoin as a legal payment. Therefore, when I found out that El Salvador legalized Bitcoin as a legal tender, I was very surprised, because
it was a very brave decision. Now El Salvador is in the spotlight of all countries in the world, if what El Salvador is doing goes well. I believe
in many countries following in El Salvador's footsteps, although indeed in the country of El Salvador itself the population there are pros and cons.
I also actually support if Bitcoin is legalized as a legal tender, but not to replace fiat, because after all fiat is still needed its existence.

ninkdwi

member

Activity: 364

Merit: 14

Quote from: ?? on ??

It's true that the price of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin is very volatile and it seems quite impossible to see Bitcoin can be used as a legal currency,
what is certain is that if you talk about conditions, of course there are many more as you have said

this is a problem that has always been debated from the start when a country or government wants to make bitcoin a legal means of payment.
it is not surprising indeed because the main topic when bitcoin will be used as a legal currency, there are pros and cons, especially the volatile problem itself.
The unpredictable nature of bitcoin and the uncertain market that makes it very difficult, that's why there are still many countries that prohibit bitcoin from being used as a legal currency, even though there are already several countries that have carried out large-scale adoption, such as the current Elsavador and Paraguay's plans. which will follow the direction of elsavador

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: pinggoki on September 19, 2021, 01:53:16 PM

Just everyone agreeing that this piece of paper we pass around has some sort of value and the more you have these, the more powerful you are on the societal ladder. When you put it this way, things stop making sense and currency is revealed for what it is. be it shared agreement or shared delusion however, we can all agree that without money we'd still be banging sticks on rocks til now.

Power doesn't just justify the usage of a currency, but it enforces it and values it as well. No matter which nation you are living in right now, the most powerful politicians decide how much your currency will worth, they could make it awesome or they could make it horrible, all they have to do is rule the nation properly.

However let's face the reality, people are ignorant and if the politicians do the 100% perfect method of ruling then they would lose the next elections for sure, I have seen truly good politicians, which is a very unique and rare thing, yet they ended up getting criticize beyond measure because what they are doing is spending money on people who need it, instead of back to tax payers who paid the most taxes. Long story short any nation could have a very strong currency, even if you empose it on another nation like Japan did, all it depends on how you want to manage it.

Ridi

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The nature of currency valuation and payment as both the unit of account and the generally acceptable medium of exchange.Money is a medium of exchange, store of value, and unit of account.Monry is economic activity which circulates in the economy as a medium of exchange and also money fulfill our needs.

Sir Legend

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Quote from: Celinena on September 18, 2021, 02:44:43 AM

The essence of currency is consensus. Because currency has the consensus of the people, it can be circulated. Because the U.S. dollar has the consensus of various countries, it can circulate in the world without it,Now Bitcoin is the same, because people's consensus on Bitcoin is increasing,The stronger the Bitcoin price, the higher the price of Bitcoin,I haven't heard the term consensus before, but after reading this article, I think it makes sense.

I think if bitcoin wants to be like USD which has a strong consensus then the most important thing is to increase the number of users, based on the data of btc owners it is found that more than 50% of bitcoins are owned by around 5000 people, of course this is a big problem because USD may be owned by more than 2 billion people in the world.

pinggoki

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This is a good explanation of how currency, while still being an abstract concept, continued to persist in human society for thousands of years, spanning the Mesopotamian Civilization onwards. That being said I would also believe that the value of a coin is directly related to that of power. During WW2, the Japanese imposed a new monetary system on the Philippines, currently at their subjugation within this time period. With this, they also introduced a new form of currency out of the blue. The currency was in use until the end of their regime and this shows for me that power will determine usage and value for a currency, at least when put into this example.

Quote from: Celinena on September 18, 2021, 02:44:43 AM

The essence of currency is consensus. Because currency has the consensus of the people, it can be circulated. Because the U.S. dollar has the consensus of various countries, it can circulate in the world without it,Now Bitcoin is the same, because people's consensus on Bitcoin is increasing,The stronger the Bitcoin price, the higher the price of Bitcoin,I haven't heard the term consensus before, but after reading this article, I think it makes sense.

Shared agreement, that's all after all. Just everyone agreeing that this piece of paper we pass around has some sort of value and the more you have these, the more powerful you are on the societal ladder. When you put it this way, things stop making sense and currency is revealed for what it is. be it shared agreement or shared delusion however, we can all agree that without money we'd still be banging sticks on rocks til now.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: RainbowKun on August 08, 2021, 10:01:46 PM

Now you'll find that the essence of currency is still consensus, and its value is given by consensus as well. The collective consensus will gradually render Bitcoin a world currency. No one can resist this trend but adapt to it.

The value of BTC, like gold, is determined on how many people are willing to purchase it at a given price. So basically, the law of supply and demand primarily determines it price on the market. With all the investment opportunities that most people see, they fail to understand that the true value of BTC is the technology that powers it- which is the blockchain technology.

With this in mind, by applying such technology to our transactions, this has the potential to convert our modern currency into a digitalized one due to a ledger that exposes all public transactions.

Ngemmeng

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SOL.BIOKRIPT.COM

Quote from: Celinena on September 18, 2021, 02:44:43 AM

The essence of currency is consensus. Because currency has the consensus of the people, it can be circulated. Because the U.S. dollar has the consensus of various countries, it can circulate in the world without it,Now Bitcoin is the same, because people's consensus on Bitcoin is increasing,The stronger the Bitcoin price, the higher the price of Bitcoin,I haven't heard the term consensus before, but after reading this article, I think it makes sense.

however consensus is not a single condition for bitcoin to become a currency, there are many conditions that must be met for bitcoin to qualify as a currency. One of these conditions is to have a stable value. of course bitcoin can not meet that requirement because the value of bitcoin is not stable.

Celinena

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The essence of currency is consensus. Because currency has the consensus of the people, it can be circulated. Because the U.S. dollar has the consensus of various countries, it can circulate in the world without it,Now Bitcoin is the same, because people's consensus on Bitcoin is increasing,The stronger the Bitcoin price, the higher the price of Bitcoin,I haven't heard the term consensus before, but after reading this article, I think it makes sense.

CaptainCrapper

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Quote from: Kimberl2020 on August 09, 2021, 08:23:46 PM

There are five risks in the use of Bitcoin:

(1) Policy risks. The decentralized nature of Bitcoin may threaten the traditional monetary system, affect the government's macro-control capabilities and reduce fiscal revenue;

(2) Legal risks. At present, Bitcoin is only protected by the laws of various countries as a virtual commodity rather than a currency;

(3) Speculation risk. Bitcoin does not have national credit or physical assets as protection, and the price may fluctuate sharply, which is extremely risky for investors;

(4) Money laundering risk. Bitcoin has the characteristics of anonymity and freedom from geographical restrictions. It is difficult to monitor the flow of funds, and it will be very easy to circumvent government supervision;

(5) Substitution risk. Bitcoin still has defects such as lack of credit guarantee, poor security performance and easy to cause deflation. At the same time, it has to face the competition of various emerging altcoins, and there is a greater risk of substitution.

Just I want to add one point hare If anybody Hacked his secret key then I can tell he will lose his own all of the asset its a very bad nature of BTC or ETH if anyone wants to to reserve his own asset just need to more security I think to need BTC wallet 2fa key and also need to 2FA for Eth wallet if anyhow hacked her wallet he can recover everything.

lixer

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Quote from: RainbowKun on September 05, 2021, 11:16:41 PM

In my opinion, the future must not be Bitcoin itself becoming legal tender, but a legal tender built around Bitcoin. For example, in the construction of any legal currency, bitcoin must be anchored and the bitcoin can be mortgaged to issue the corresponding currency. Because in the future, the majority of people only believe in the credit of Bitcoin. Just like the over-collateralized stablecoins that are now issued. This is the direction in which I think humanity will evolve in the future currency system.

I do agree that legal tender is way too much and we should not be going towards that, but I do think that there is a good chance crypto could be an alternative that we should all be supporting and using. Think about it this way, can you spend bitcoin or other altcoins to buy something? Obviously we can, it is not just for investment, it is for sending/receiving, earning/spending and all of that, this is why we should be very happy about what we have right now. That doesn't mean that we need something bigger or we do not need it, we should definitely look to grow but we could always be something alternative without being an alternative.

Let's see what companies will end up accepting bitcoin, if there are many companies that accept bitcoin then we could potentially get a good result from that without ever being legal tender.

RainbowKun

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Quote from: kendedese on August 30, 2021, 12:17:10 AM

Quote from: Semar Mesem on August 25, 2021, 06:00:03 AM

Quote from: Baihaki Khaizan on August 20, 2021, 11:19:11 AM

Money is an object that is agreed upon by its users as (means of exchange), even if it is made of a piece of stone or wood.

Likewise with the presence of bitcoin which is predicted to be a currency (means of exchange) and will be accepted throughout the world if an agreement is born to use it.

Yes that's right, as long as there is a community that accepts it then it is considered money, bitcoin has a community of up to 150 million and this is a power that cannot be underestimated, the impact is clearly seen that there are many restrictions and banned bitcoin but it does not bring any effect, instead bitcoin users continue increase.

To become a legal currency it must meet many conditions, one of which is having a stable value. The value of bitcoin which is very dependent on supply and demand certainly makes the price of bitcoin unstable. besides that there are still many requirements that bitcoin cannot fulfill in order to become a legal currency.

In my opinion, the future must not be Bitcoin itself becoming legal tender, but a legal tender built around Bitcoin. For example, in the construction of any legal currency, bitcoin must be anchored and the bitcoin can be mortgaged to issue the corresponding currency. Because in the future, the majority of people only believe in the credit of Bitcoin. Just like the over-collateralized stablecoins that are now issued. This is the direction in which I think humanity will evolve in the future currency system.

kendedese

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Quote from: Semar Mesem on August 25, 2021, 06:00:03 AM

Quote from: Baihaki Khaizan on August 20, 2021, 11:19:11 AM

Money is an object that is agreed upon by its users as (means of exchange), even if it is made of a piece of stone or wood.

Likewise with the presence of bitcoin which is predicted to be a currency (means of exchange) and will be accepted throughout the world if an agreement is born to use it.

Yes that's right, as long as there is a community that accepts it then it is considered money, bitcoin has a community of up to 150 million and this is a power that cannot be underestimated, the impact is clearly seen that there are many restrictions and banned bitcoin but it does not bring any effect, instead bitcoin users continue increase.

To become a legal currency it must meet many conditions, one of which is having a stable value. The value of bitcoin which is very dependent on supply and demand certainly makes the price of bitcoin unstable. besides that there are still many requirements that bitcoin cannot fulfill in order to become a legal currency.

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