What’s the nature of currency? - page 3.

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Quote from: Pmalek on August 09, 2021, 08:55:49 AM

Bitcoin has already achieved consensus. It's users are in agreement that the POW-based technology has its use case and can be utilized to transfer value from point A to point B. As the time goes by, this agreement between people will either increase or decrease based on whether or not a new and better payment system will be created in the future. What the government thinks about the consensus that was reached between Bitcoin enthusiasts doesn't really matter. If people come to an agreement that Britney Spears posters can be used in exchange for goods and services, a government agency doesn't have a say in that matter.

Quote from: defi-Dany on August 09, 2021, 03:04:23 AM

Do you think that since Bitcoin can be issued without a central bank, cryptocurrency can bypass the state, replace the current legal currency, and achieve denationalization.

I don't think Bitcoin will ever become the ultimate replacement asset for fiat currencies. At least not one that will be private and help people to not pay taxes. But I do believe that the two worlds can coexist and affect each other in a way to iron out their flaws and shortcomings.

Bitcoin doesn't exactly have an efficient way to measure "consensus" and further, there's a major difference between what bitcoin users might think versus a consensus by miners, the vote of which is significantly concentrated the hands of very few relative to the number of bitcoin users as a whole. Plus, the frequent splits off the main bitcoin chain are instances where there have been major disagreements concerning the "consensus" about the proper protocols bitcoin should use. All this is a long way of saying that there's no credible "consensus" about bitcoin. There's a status quo which, for reasons that have nothing to do with consensus, is very difficult to change.

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Quote from: Baihaki Khaizan on August 20, 2021, 11:19:11 AM

Money is an object that is agreed upon by its users as (means of exchange), even if it is made of a piece of stone or wood.

Likewise with the presence of bitcoin which is predicted to be a currency (means of exchange) and will be accepted throughout the world if an agreement is born to use it.

So for now about bitcoin, it is still an issue to have that kind of acceptance that Fiat money has. I think that is the nature of money that every country creates an acceptability for their own currency and bitcoin's nature is that it is decentralized and uncontrollable unlike Fiat legal tender.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on August 18, 2021, 11:54:22 AM

Quote from: RainbowKun on August 08, 2021, 10:01:46 PM

Now you'll find that the essence of currency is still consensus, and its value is given by consensus as well. The collective consensus will gradually render Bitcoin a world currency. No one can resist this trend but adapt to it.

Yes, this is a really deep idea that summarizes the whole article. You wrote more than one article about consensus and I disagree with you about human consensus, but I completely agree with you here. It is the consensus that gives the currency its value. Without consensus, no currency or metal, even gold, can have a value, for example. If there is a global consensus that gold has no value, then gold will become worthless and become like any other metal. On the other hand, if there is a consensus that copper, for example, is more expensive than gold, then the value of copper will become more expensive than gold, and people will store copper instead of gold.
Now what happens if there is a global consensus that the dollar is worthless and the bitcoin has a high value, then the dollar will become a worthless pile of papers and the real value will become in bitcoin. I believe this will happen in the near future.

The nature of gold and silver whose value is more permanent as currency from time to time is due to their value which is based on their substance, and not on the recognition of groups of people or countries. This makes the gold and silver currency stable in value, anytime and anywhere, almost never changes. This property is suitable for currency criteria as a measure of the price of goods and services, because the standard size must be stable and not fluctuating.

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Money is an object that is agreed upon by its users as (means of exchange), even if it is made of a piece of stone or wood.

Likewise with the presence of bitcoin which is predicted to be a currency (means of exchange) and will be accepted throughout the world if an agreement is born to use it.

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Quote from: semobo on August 20, 2021, 03:46:40 AM

Quote from: Hippocrypto on August 18, 2021, 06:57:29 PM

The nature of currency on my own perspectives, it has its specific character pertaining to digital currency because it's volatile and not regulated by government.
Unlike with fiat currency, authority and economic impact of a country depends on how the inflation works for them.
Cryptocurrency can be used in different ways, it can spend on goods and online payment and other spending needs. Also the most common experience that people usually do for it right now is online trading, it can be stocks or cryptocurrency.

Can be used as an assets is not the basic nature of the currency and not needed as well but cryptos giving us that opportunity so we can use them for it. The main two nature is it should have a stable value and accepted in the region while bitcoin mastered the acceptance since its accepted worldwide while the consistency in the price has put some barrier towards it.

Bitcoin can be used as Fiat in my county. But unfortunately it's not possible to many countries. In additional here, I am using bitcoin and crypto as assets also. Most of my saving are in crypto currency. I know crypto currency will send it back with 10 times profit. Only think need to done is, just hold till good price.

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Quote from: Hippocrypto on August 18, 2021, 06:57:29 PM

The nature of currency on my own perspectives, it has its specific character pertaining to digital currency because it's volatile and not regulated by government.
Unlike with fiat currency, authority and economic impact of a country depends on how the inflation works for them.
Cryptocurrency can be used in different ways, it can spend on goods and online payment and other spending needs. Also the most common experience that people usually do for it right now is online trading, it can be stocks or cryptocurrency.

Can be used as an assets is not the basic nature of the currency and not needed as well but cryptos giving us that opportunity so we can use them for it. The main two nature is it should have a stable value and accepted in the region while bitcoin mastered the acceptance since its accepted worldwide while the consistency in the price has put some barrier towards it.

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Quote from: King Khaizan on August 18, 2021, 09:47:56 AM

now the use of cryptocurrencies is still prohibited as a means of payment.

However, seeing the demand for it is getting bigger as an investment instrument.

High prices and the volatility of its value which tends to rise is one of the attractions.

and in the future it is not impossible, if everyone reaches a consensus, then bitcoin will be transformed into a legal medium of exchange throughout the world.

If bitcoin users and communities continue to grow, without being legalized automatically bitcoin has become a legal currency, the small thing we can do is continue to invite other users to use bitcoin then one day any country will automatically legalize bitcoin.

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Quote from: Hippocrypto on August 18, 2021, 06:57:29 PM

The nature of currency on my own perspectives, it has its specific character pertaining to digital currency because it's volatile and not regulated by government.
Unlike with fiat currency, authority and economic impact of a country depends on how the inflation works for them.
Cryptocurrency can be used in different ways, it can spend on goods and online payment and other spending needs. Also the most common experience that people usually do for it right now is online trading, it can be stocks or cryptocurrency.

Volatile is important features of crypto and it was regulated by the market. When their is huge demand, we can expected to see some good rate for bitcoin and other currency. When the coin is listed in some good exchange, you can inverse without fear. Fear make a major role in the price of bitcoin

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Quote from: magneto on August 18, 2021, 06:32:53 PM

Quote

Now you'll find that the essence of currency is still consensus, and its value is given by consensus as well. The collective consensus will gradually render Bitcoin a world currency. No one can resist this trend but adapt to it.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

I actually completely agree - no single currency has "intrinsic value" in that nature has deemed it money, but rather the value is derived from adopters who deem it to be valuable. This is true of fiat, bitcoin, gold, you name it.

But what separates bitcoin/gold from fiat is that people's beliefs are justified, as there is no centralised entity that is overseeable the supply of the currency. So that is another dimension to the question.

Yes, the value of everything comes from its adopters, from the recognition of users. If no one recognizes this thing, it will have no value. This is what I call collective consensus conferring value. This law applies to everything in our daily lives. In history, the reason why we used gold, silver, etc. as currency was also because everyone collectively recognized its currency attributes. Why is Bitcoin valuable now? It is also because more and more people have truly recognized it and endowed it with value with collective consensus.

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The nature of currency on my own perspectives, it has its specific character pertaining to digital currency because it's volatile and not regulated by government.
Unlike with fiat currency, authority and economic impact of a country depends on how the inflation works for them.
Cryptocurrency can be used in different ways, it can spend on goods and online payment and other spending needs. Also the most common experience that people usually do for it right now is online trading, it can be stocks or cryptocurrency.

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Quote

Now you'll find that the essence of currency is still consensus, and its value is given by consensus as well. The collective consensus will gradually render Bitcoin a world currency. No one can resist this trend but adapt to it.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

I actually completely agree - no single currency has "intrinsic value" in that nature has deemed it money, but rather the value is derived from adopters who deem it to be valuable. This is true of fiat, bitcoin, gold, you name it.

But what separates bitcoin/gold from fiat is that people's beliefs are justified, as there is no centralised entity that is overseeable the supply of the currency. So that is another dimension to the question.

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The nature of the currency will always be freedom, it implies Financial Freedom, no taxes, no third party intervention, that is, no governments, no banks, as governments and banks know that this is what their greatest intention is looking for. It is to speak very badly of BTC, to make it an enemy of people, with the fact of being BTC of a volatile nature it is enough to enter there.
Countries are studying how to participate in the BTC economy, that is why El Salvador is the pioneer in adopting BTC, however most countries refuse BTC.

For me, BTC represents deflationary economy, zero debt and financial freedom where you are the one who manages your own money and the amount you want without the need to request withdrawal permits from banks or the like, and now currently to move very large amounts of money a certificate of origin of the funds must be made.

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Quote from: breathlessz on August 12, 2021, 07:33:28 AM

basically currency to make it easier to value an item, and this is on the basis of control from the government, but the problem is that printing money that is carried out continuously will reduce the value of the money, so that inflation cannot be avoided. indeed this is more advantageous to the rich because they can control the vital objects that

and here the management of currency printing carried out by the government must really be carried out professionally and as much as possible there must be transparency and should not be covered up because if money printing is in large and uncontrollable quantities this may not be a good thing because it is fast. or later inflation will strike.
and even if this happens, it still cannot be done directly because there are regulations made by the government itself that regulate and cannot be violated arbitrarily

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Quote from: RainbowKun on August 08, 2021, 10:01:46 PM

Now you'll find that the essence of currency is still consensus, and its value is given by consensus as well. The collective consensus will gradually render Bitcoin a world currency. No one can resist this trend but adapt to it.

Yes, this is a really deep idea that summarizes the whole article. You wrote more than one article about consensus and I disagree with you about human consensus, but I completely agree with you here. It is the consensus that gives the currency its value. Without consensus, no currency or metal, even gold, can have a value, for example. If there is a global consensus that gold has no value, then gold will become worthless and become like any other metal. On the other hand, if there is a consensus that copper, for example, is more expensive than gold, then the value of copper will become more expensive than gold, and people will store copper instead of gold.
Now what happens if there is a global consensus that the dollar is worthless and the bitcoin has a high value, then the dollar will become a worthless pile of papers and the real value will become in bitcoin. I believe this will happen in the near future.

King Khaizan

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now the use of cryptocurrencies is still prohibited as a means of payment.

However, seeing the demand for it is getting bigger as an investment instrument.

High prices and the volatility of its value which tends to rise is one of the attractions.

and in the future it is not impossible, if everyone reaches a consensus, then bitcoin will be transformed into a legal medium of exchange throughout the world.

iv4n

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Looks like a perfect place to drop this here:

Quote

"Nowadays people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

The nature of currency is to be a medium of exchange. Simple as that! To not ask who is selling a house for 50 cows, you sell 50 cows to people who want cows and then you go and buy a house for that money!
Sadly, fiat currencies got corrupted over time! Now we have a real mess, caused by governments and banks (as the biggest fraudsters) and their actions in the past! I think this system can't be fixed, it can be just replaced! We need some form of currency (medium of exchange) that can be easily transferred across the world, available to all, transparent, trustworthy, etc... and that looks like I talk about crypto, right?

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Quote from: xSkylarx on August 17, 2021, 10:55:09 PM

Quote from: Kimonoe on August 16, 2021, 02:27:16 AM

Quote from: Robinson66 on August 14, 2021, 03:25:48 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on August 08, 2021, 10:44:20 PM

I beg to disagree that the nature or essence of currency is consensus, at least not until Bitcoin came. It may be so in a small and primitive community but it cannot be in an advanced and large society.

The fiat currency is made up of a lot of policies, decisions, changes, impositions, etc which are not out of consensus. Of course it could be argued that it is hard to gather the opinions and ideas of everybody and that the very reason why there is a government is that it would act and decide on behalf of the larger population.

However, this is not really the case about fiat. The decisions of the few persons who decide about the direction of the currency are not really reflective of the people's voices and sentiment. So everything is merely imposed on the citizenry whether they like or not.

The essence of money is value it.
The currency is considered to be the main exercise of three functions: value scale, exchange medium, value storage. Now people think that the core of the currency is trust. Since trust, it slowly formed a consensus.

I will just add basically the point of the currency is that it is acceptable to everyone, so we can use it flexibly. on the other hand, there must be approval from the government so that all people must be able to comply.

Because the currency is the most widely used by the people and is only accepted now, some stores, like gold, will not accept it because the value is so high and they can't change it, whereas before the barter system, you could barter things. Wherever you go, the currency is very flexible, and any country can simply change it to their own currency.

Originally, currency was a means of payment that made it easier for someone to make transactions. with the recognition of currencies in each country, it does not make it difficult to transact in certain countries. Currently, fiat currency is still relevant for payment instruments, but I'm sure that slowly crypto will find a place as well, just like the barter system which is slowly being replaced with money.

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Quote from: Kimonoe on August 16, 2021, 02:27:16 AM

Quote from: Robinson66 on August 14, 2021, 03:25:48 AM

Quote from: Fundamentals Of on August 08, 2021, 10:44:20 PM

I beg to disagree that the nature or essence of currency is consensus, at least not until Bitcoin came. It may be so in a small and primitive community but it cannot be in an advanced and large society.

The fiat currency is made up of a lot of policies, decisions, changes, impositions, etc which are not out of consensus. Of course it could be argued that it is hard to gather the opinions and ideas of everybody and that the very reason why there is a government is that it would act and decide on behalf of the larger population.

However, this is not really the case about fiat. The decisions of the few persons who decide about the direction of the currency are not really reflective of the people's voices and sentiment. So everything is merely imposed on the citizenry whether they like or not.

The essence of money is value it.
The currency is considered to be the main exercise of three functions: value scale, exchange medium, value storage. Now people think that the core of the currency is trust. Since trust, it slowly formed a consensus.

I will just add basically the point of the currency is that it is acceptable to everyone, so we can use it flexibly. on the other hand, there must be approval from the government so that all people must be able to comply.

Because the currency is the most widely used by the people and is only accepted now, some stores, like gold, will not accept it because the value is so high and they can't change it, whereas before the barter system, you could barter things. Wherever you go, the currency is very flexible, and any country can simply change it to their own currency.

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From the beginning the circulation of fiat currency was high but with the advent of cryptocurrencies the demand for fiat has been declining because everyone thinks crypto is more profitable than fiat. Crypto and other currencies have become popular for bitcoin cryptocurrency is a type of digital asset which according to the modern monetary policy of cryptocurrency for asset transactions devaluation means the depreciation of a country's currency against a country's currency in a fixed exchange rate manner. However with the change of time and financial system, the type and nature of devaluation is changing.

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Quote from: Zilon on August 17, 2021, 02:12:16 AM

Over the years the fiat currency experienced lots of drawbacks and the primary setback is the issue of trust and security of database. And the blockchain industry with the innovation of bitcoin has helped in tackling this issue. The consensus found in fiat currency has been altered severally to suit the personal interest of it's major stakeholders but the interesting thing is bitcoin can't be altered due to it's highly level of how it operates anonymously.

This consensus alogrithim which the blockchain technology shares will some day call for global adoption although some countries has it as a legal tender while some are still fighting against it but I'm sure at the later end it will be globally accepted

Yes, in my opinion, the current consensus on Bitcoin is getting stronger and stronger, and there is no force that can stop the development of Bitcoin. This is the power of technology and mathematics, allowing mankind to re-establish a fairer, free, and equal world currency system based on technology.

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