Some people believe in God
Some people believe 911 was caused by the US Government
Some people believe the earth if flat
Some people believe Ethereum is awesome
Some people believe Tether is not a scan
Some people believe Bitcoin is going to take over the world
Fact is, humans are extremely gullible, make sure you are correct about your own beliefs before criticising others.
But, I doubt most of you reading this are capable of that as you are already in your own cult.
Topic: When Religion and Finance [Bitcoin] Overlap and Clash (Read 400 times)
If it is observed that there are still many disagreements, even though the scholars in the country, from various points of view, some say it is haram or halal with certain rules. but for me it all comes back to us personally, if we get money from here, and provide a lot of benefits, especially for people around us, then why are we arguing about that problem. alcohol can be halal under certain conditions. Sorry, that's just my personal opinion
what is forbidden in Islam such as gambling, drunkenness or places that serve both are prohibited from visiting as well as investment if the coin being invested has something to do with what is prohibited as I mentioned earlier then it is clearly haram but if the coin invested has no element of gambling or drunkenness or the like I think is allowed,
Religion, organized religion in particular, is basically focused on spiritual matters, those relating to faith and the supreme being. Once it crosses the spiritual border and enters the mundane world, a clash cannot be avoided.
This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.
While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.
Religious leaders would always say anything, but let’s not forget that these people are also human beings like us and really can’t be right at all times. Sometimes when your religious leaders say something, it is up to you to go home and think about it another it is something that is right or not. They can’t be right at all times, and moreover I don’t see anything that is wrong with for someone investing into cryptocurrency.This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.
While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.
It is simply an investment and a currency, but some people can decide to use it for gambling, lending, and other purposes, which might be wrong depending on the religion that you are into. But as a simple investment? Then I don’t see anything wrong with it.
What about the other Islamic countries viewing this new market
I think it won't be so different because the fundamental is the same, Qur'an and hadith. But may be a bit different if it is viewed from different perceptions, it will depend on the understanding of the Islamic institution in the countries. I ever read the statements about the status of Bitcoin in the other Islamic countries, it won't be haram as long as no gambling elements and danger in investing Bitcoin. So, if we invest or trade safely with sufficient knowledge, I think it is not haram.This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.
What about the other Islamic countries viewing this new market, i am sure there will be resistance at first because they cannot comprehend the evolving technology and there are other Islamic countries in the world and i am waiting to hear their position on the cryptocurrency market, whether they will also come with with the same conclusion or a split decision 
. 
Religion, organized religion in particular, is basically focused on spiritual matters, those relating to faith and the supreme being. Once it crosses the spiritual border and enters the mundane world, a clash cannot be avoided.
This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.
While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.
I'm interested to know your opinion on this. I assume there are a lot of Muslim Indonesians in this forum as well as Muslims from other parts of the world. What can you say about this? Which side are you?
Sources:
1. https://cointelegraph.com/news/indonesia-s-national-islamic-council-declares-bitcoin-haram
2. https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2021/11/11/indonesias-religious-leaders-declare-crypto-illegal-for-muslims-report/
3. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-haram-says-indonesian-islamic-113951771.html
I don't understand why you've chosen such a vague title, I wouldn't have found your thread if I wasn't reading posts of someone else. Why didn't you clearly write that Indonesian muslim authorities have issued a fatwa against Bitcoin in your title? There are many indonesian people on Bitcointalk, then the community should be aware of that. This is in relation to Indonesia's national Islamic council's declaration of Bitcoin as haram or forbidden. The reason being is that Bitcoin is said to have the elements of uncertainty and wagering.
While the country's top Islamic body's declaration is not legally binding, it is influential to the lives of hundreds of millions of Indonesians who are Muslims. While Bitcoin trading continues, those who strictly adhere to the Islamic Sharia law might find it in direct conflict to their religious morals.
I'm interested to know your opinion on this. I assume there are a lot of Muslim Indonesians in this forum as well as Muslims from other parts of the world. What can you say about this? Which side are you?
Sources:
1. https://cointelegraph.com/news/indonesia-s-national-islamic-council-declares-bitcoin-haram
2. https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2021/11/11/indonesias-religious-leaders-declare-crypto-illegal-for-muslims-report/
3. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crypto-haram-says-indonesian-islamic-113951771.html
fellow Muslims with different sects can clash. Not all those who strictly adhere to Islamic Sharia law are willing to follow these rules. Many Muslims still buy bitcoin. In fact, I've heard that storing money in a bank is haram. It's like a Muslim can't keep up with technological advances.
As long as there is no gambling or casino element in the sale or any elements that are forbidden in Islam, I think it's okay, for example, investing in digital gold or digital oil is legal, just like buying gold in the real world, gold is not forbidden in the Islamic world.
I don't believe what I am not convinced no matter what any Religion say about it. The only part of Religion I hold dear is the part that ask us to love one another and love God. There is always clash between Religion and new technology. Individuals that are Muslim still buy and sell bitcoin not minding the controversy.
The group of Muslims that stand against the use of bitcoin connecting with the religious morals coming up with opposition serves as a promotion for bitcoin among the Muslims who haven't known about bitcoin. Very limited number of Muslims, Christians, and other religion people follow their holy book. So, this is up to the users whether to use bitcoin or not.
It isn't clearly mentioned about the respective phrase that briefs about the uncertainty and wagering. If so, stocks too have the same features. With cryptocurrency it is found high whereas with stocks this can be found low. This is some form of fear among the islamic leaders and they try to keep the common man under control in the name of religion.
It isn't clearly mentioned about the respective phrase that briefs about the uncertainty and wagering. If so, stocks too have the same features. With cryptocurrency it is found high whereas with stocks this can be found low. This is some form of fear among the islamic leaders and they try to keep the common man under control in the name of religion.
Islam requires a strict adherence to the Quran, and it is not permissible to gamble from most Islamic interpretations, so technically Bitcoin would not work in any Islamic society. Christian societies, or any westernized society predicated on Judeo-Christian values won't have a problem implementing a bitcoin based financial system. Even the moderate muslims that hardly follow their holy book would probably be against Bitcoin. You think any country in the Middle East would ever willingly adopt crypto?
I think things like this will still be in a long debate.
Talking about the majority, it may be true that Islam dominates and becomes the majority in Indonesia, but it does not mean that other religions and opinions are ruled out.
Besides that, the rules may only be mostly for those in Indonesia but it seems that things like this will be considered a breeze and I think because this kind of thing is only religious but not bound by laws in the country
Talking about the majority, it may be true that Islam dominates and becomes the majority in Indonesia, but it does not mean that other religions and opinions are ruled out.
Besides that, the rules may only be mostly for those in Indonesia but it seems that things like this will be considered a breeze and I think because this kind of thing is only religious but not bound by laws in the country
but this kind of thing is really weird, in my opinion
too eccentric, by issuing statements that make pros and cons in the general public
It is proven that religion is something that is eating away at the world, it is not bringing anything good on the contrary these religious fanatics are a cancer to the world. if people want to be free, want to use bitcoin freely and want to earn money freely then they must not be religious fanatics, they must respect and comply with government laws even if some laws are nasty joke, but they are better than religion
Don't compare Laws with Religion. It is very sad to see people state that laws are better than Religion. Don't you understand that laws are human-made, while Religion is created by God? Anyway, please don't be OOT, we are only talking about MUI statement, not about Religion. I know you may hate people who are fanatic with Religion, but it is their right to obey Religion. Don't spread hate about Religion, buddy! Please respect each other.
I have heard this since last year and I think the fatwa issued by MUI is still relevant to what I am doing today.
Because according to the MUI Fatwa, bitcoin is said to be haram when used as an investment because its value has high fluctuations so that it is feared to resemble gambling based on chance. However, if it is only used as a medium of exchange, the value is Mubah (if you do it it's okay, but if you don't do it you will get a reward).
Because according to the MUI Fatwa, bitcoin is said to be haram when used as an investment because its value has high fluctuations so that it is feared to resemble gambling based on chance. However, if it is only used as a medium of exchange, the value is Mubah (if you do it it's okay, but if you don't do it you will get a reward).
It is proven that religion is something that is eating away at the world, it is not bringing anything good on the contrary these religious fanatics are a cancer to the world. if people want to be free, want to use bitcoin freely and want to earn money freely then they must not be religious fanatics, they must respect and comply with government laws even if some laws are nasty joke, but they are better than religion
And as far as I know, the declaration of haram was not made or stated by central MUI, but the branch of it, that is located in one of the provinces in my country.
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There are some points why this declaration to be haram:
1. Crypto cannot be a currency
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You are right. I also heard that it is declared by the branch of MUI in east Java. So, the statement cannot be used as an official guide because the MUI center still doesn't state anything about Bitcoin or crypto recently. Even MUI center states something about Bitcoin and crypto, it should differ into 2 categories, investment and payment tool. Based on the regulation in Indonesia, Bitcoin or crypto can be used as a digital asset, it is supported by the government. While for payment tool purposes, it is strongly forbidden, because only Rupiah can be used as the legal payment tool. SO, haram is only for the cases of using Bitcoin or Altcoins as a payment tool.---
There are some points why this declaration to be haram:
1. Crypto cannot be a currency
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...
In Indonesia, the majority is Islam and commonly the declaration (Fatwa) by MUI will be followed by most People (Islamic). However, related tot his declaration about crypto is haram, it is still debatable. And as far as I know, the declaration of haram was not made or stated by central MUI, but the branch of it, that is located in one of the provinces in my country.
There are some points why this declaration to be haram:
1. Crypto cannot be a currency
Yes, exactly, in Indonesia itself, crypto is only legal as a commodity asset and not legal as a currency as stated in one of the rules here under Bappebti.
And about the disadvantages of the crypto that is considered very high (based on their assumption) may refer to certain shitcoins (moreover crypto that has no underlying, value, and also requiring pump and dump.
However, if this is about at our own risk to use crypto for investment and trading.
For me myself, as one of the people in the religion, I am still dong this, trading and also investing crypto, as far I use it not for a currency (because this is exactly illegal in my country), and also I must be aware of not trading and investing in shitcoins or hype coins that are very risky like gambling.
Religion is the belief and worship of some superhuman controlling power. It is the faith of people. If one believes in it, then there is nothing to overlap and clash with the values provided by the religion. As of now everything is connected with religious morals. What for this is done, I'm not sure about it. In Christianity some find religion spreading as a profession. With Muslims I haven't come across such act, yet this news shows that it also tries to rule its people through religion.
religion not only mention for trust a thing, not only for a faith, but also daily life. religion will help and guide believer to have good manner and all of needed to have, wealth, mental, or faith itself.
need to dive deep inside to know about this problem. and i ever ask to someone teacher who really care about religion, and he have to learn more. sometime, people cand decide and need to have more knowledge to decide something, not only from book but also from the other stuff.
need to dive deep inside to know about this problem. and i ever ask to someone teacher who really care about religion, and he have to learn more. sometime, people cand decide and need to have more knowledge to decide something, not only from book but also from the other stuff.
The overlapping of religion, especially of Islam, and finance is actually murky.
Agreed, there are too many convolutions. Because of this, it will be difficult for Islamic countries to look at cryptocurrency in the same way as they perceive fiat, especially when the term 'cryptocurrency' can be associated with wrongdoing (that's of course not to say that this is not the case for fiat) is just that crypto is often vandalised as the 'bad economy', with fiat that has been used for thousands of years being preferred. Quote
Pertaining to cryptocurrency and its emerging characteristics and features, there are contentious issues such as lending, staking, volatility, HODLing, and so on.
These actually extend to any financial activity other than work itself, and even then the term 'work' is still left to be widely interpreted...In the end, it seems to me to be down to the individual to choose what they feel is appropriate for them
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