That's total bullshit, counterparty risk is the only reason you won't get into btc lol.
Find some miners who will sell you blocks, go on localbitcoins, there are people offering up to $100,000 trades actually located on Wall street.
You're basically just shilling for secondmarket, or you'll announce soon that wannabe investors no longer need worry about counterparty risk because.....some company you're involved with has sorted out this issue you have created.
Topic: When Wall Street will finally jump in? - page 2. (Read 5173 times)
I'm what most of you would consider a wall street person: I'm a high frequency trader, have been for the past decade, and make my income solely from trading.
I own ~4 bitcoins that I mined myself a couple years back just because I thought/think the bitcoin project is cool.
I'd like to buy many, many more bitcoins (to buy and hold, not to HFT). Putting a few hundred thousand dollars into an investment like bitcoin would be something I'd be happy to do - the risk adjusted returns are within my risk profile. I haven't. The reason is I don't trust any of the exchanges. Even the 'reputable' ones are still small/unproven startups. Coming from the wall street world, there's a lot to be said for the security that larger battle-tested financial institutions offer. When you're talking about putting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars at risk, counterparty risk is a very real concern. At this point in time, no exchange has given me enough faith to trust them with my money, even if it was only for a single hour where I wired it to them and then bought the BTC and transferred the BTC out immediately. While I never would have used gox, just as an example: What if the company happens to blow up in that hour, and I never get my BTC and my USD are stuck in some sketchy small company that is in a foreign bankruptcy proceeding for the next three years?
Wall street types are happy to accept financial risk, but aren't very fond of counterparty risk, especially if we can't hedge it off onto someone else. At the moment that's not particularly possible. If you got even a single reputable financial institution (bank, equity/commodity exchange, something of that nature) to operate a BTC exchange, we'd come flocking.
All of the "fear of the unknown" type comments aren't particularly accurate about why wall street isn't investing bigtime in BTC yet. Wall Street will invest in pretty much any asset as long as the asset provides appropriate levels of risk adjusted returns -- certain assets are clearly far more risky, however, if the returns are sufficient for that level of risk, and that type of investor is able to stomach that risk, they'll happily invest. Imho, BTC has a track record long enough at this point with returns high enough to make it an interesting risky investment for many many institutional investors -- aka, the returns aren't the problem. For example, ask anyone who trades long-dated far-out-of-the-money options how they feel about risky investments. In my opinion, the reliable, safe infrastructure simply isn't there yet to get institutional investors to feel comfortable trading BTC -- it's too much the wild west, with small fly-by-night companies (gox, btc-e, etc) having large market share in the exchange markets.
Just my $0.02.
Don't understand your point? If you want buy and hold you don't must leave your coins/money at any untrustful exchange. Buy few coins and send the coins to you wallet and keep the coins safe. Or buy at local Bitcoin seller, or buy in many steps small amounts at any exchanger (even to avoid to affect the price with your hundreds or millions of $$ I own ~4 bitcoins that I mined myself a couple years back just because I thought/think the bitcoin project is cool.
I'd like to buy many, many more bitcoins (to buy and hold, not to HFT). Putting a few hundred thousand dollars into an investment like bitcoin would be something I'd be happy to do - the risk adjusted returns are within my risk profile. I haven't. The reason is I don't trust any of the exchanges. Even the 'reputable' ones are still small/unproven startups. Coming from the wall street world, there's a lot to be said for the security that larger battle-tested financial institutions offer. When you're talking about putting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars at risk, counterparty risk is a very real concern. At this point in time, no exchange has given me enough faith to trust them with my money, even if it was only for a single hour where I wired it to them and then bought the BTC and transferred the BTC out immediately. While I never would have used gox, just as an example: What if the company happens to blow up in that hour, and I never get my BTC and my USD are stuck in some sketchy small company that is in a foreign bankruptcy proceeding for the next three years?
Wall street types are happy to accept financial risk, but aren't very fond of counterparty risk, especially if we can't hedge it off onto someone else. At the moment that's not particularly possible. If you got even a single reputable financial institution (bank, equity/commodity exchange, something of that nature) to operate a BTC exchange, we'd come flocking.
All of the "fear of the unknown" type comments aren't particularly accurate about why wall street isn't investing bigtime in BTC yet. Wall Street will invest in pretty much any asset as long as the asset provides appropriate levels of risk adjusted returns -- certain assets are clearly far more risky, however, if the returns are sufficient for that level of risk, and that type of investor is able to stomach that risk, they'll happily invest. Imho, BTC has a track record long enough at this point with returns high enough to make it an interesting risky investment for many many institutional investors -- aka, the returns aren't the problem. For example, ask anyone who trades long-dated far-out-of-the-money options how they feel about risky investments. In my opinion, the reliable, safe infrastructure simply isn't there yet to get institutional investors to feel comfortable trading BTC -- it's too much the wild west, with small fly-by-night companies (gox, btc-e, etc) having large market share in the exchange markets.
Just my $0.02.
)...or or or... Many many possible and safe ways to do...Easy as that...If you are that big stockmarket trader as you say (doubts are allowed) you might be able to handle risk of small amounts. You gonna lose same or more at stock market trades everyday.
Is China really trending higher again, our media is still saying they "restricted BTC" and Russia banned it.
Are the China exchanges doing good again?....sorry I don't know.
Are the China exchanges doing good again?....sorry I don't know.
How come communist country like China massivelly jumped in on the bitcoin wagon already and modern and democratic country like US is still (mostly) taking their sweet time?
Where is Wall Street, where are the big money? Right now China is driving the price up for second time and we see little to no action from US capitals.
Kinda can't figure it out?
Where is Wall Street, where are the big money? Right now China is driving the price up for second time and we see little to no action from US capitals.
Kinda can't figure it out?
wall street you say? they will eat btc, chew it up and spit it out. rinse and repeat until they get the bitcoin community's money all in their pocket leaving btc at 1 usd per btc.
^ all that while they're laughing about it.
Wall street types are happy to accept financial risk, but aren't very fond of counterparty risk, especially if we can't hedge it off onto someone else. At the moment that's not particularly possible. If you got even a single reputable financial institution (bank, equity/commodity exchange, something of that nature) to operate a BTC exchange, we'd come flocking.
You could always buy from SecondMarket... Check them out.
The US is not a democracy. Never was.
Actually, the US is exactly what a Democracy really is.
Putting a few hundred thousand dollars into an investment like bitcoin would be something I'd be happy to do - the risk adjusted returns are within my risk profile. I haven't. The reason is I don't trust any of the exchanges.
Thanks for your input. But I don't think I understand your position. If you would be happy to buy and hodl (as per your statement), rather than HFT, why wold you not: transfer whatever amount you are comfortable to an exchange (e.g. $5000?); buy XBT with the USD; withdraw the XBT to your personal wallet on your computer; rinse and repeat until you've exchanged your hundreds of thousands? You exposure to counterparty risk can be limited to whatever figure you keep on the exchange at any one time.
Alternately, if you really want to take a position of hundreds of thousands, I would imagine you might be interesting to someone like BitPay, whose biz model requires a regular source of $ for which they would provide XBT. You might contact them directly and ask.
Why does Wall Street have to want to jump in? Its like USPS to jump in to electronic mailing back in late 80ies and then extinct since no one is gonna use snail mail for everyday communication?
I'm what most of you would consider a wall street person: I'm a high frequency trader, have been for the past decade, and make my income solely from trading.
I own ~4 bitcoins that I mined myself a couple years back just because I thought/think the bitcoin project is cool.
I'd like to buy many, many more bitcoins (to buy and hold, not to HFT). Putting a few hundred thousand dollars into an investment like bitcoin would be something I'd be happy to do - the risk adjusted returns are within my risk profile. I haven't. The reason is I don't trust any of the exchanges. Even the 'reputable' ones are still small/unproven startups. Coming from the wall street world, there's a lot to be said for the security that larger battle-tested financial institutions offer. When you're talking about putting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars at risk, counterparty risk is a very real concern. At this point in time, no exchange has given me enough faith to trust them with my money, even if it was only for a single hour where I wired it to them and then bought the BTC and transferred the BTC out immediately. While I never would have used gox, just as an example: What if the company happens to blow up in that hour, and I never get my BTC and my USD are stuck in some sketchy small company that is in a foreign bankruptcy proceeding for the next three years?
Wall street types are happy to accept financial risk, but aren't very fond of counterparty risk, especially if we can't hedge it off onto someone else. At the moment that's not particularly possible. If you got even a single reputable financial institution (bank, equity/commodity exchange, something of that nature) to operate a BTC exchange, we'd come flocking.
All of the "fear of the unknown" type comments aren't particularly accurate about why wall street isn't investing bigtime in BTC yet. Wall Street will invest in pretty much any asset as long as the asset provides appropriate levels of risk adjusted returns -- certain assets are clearly far more risky, however, if the returns are sufficient for that level of risk, and that type of investor is able to stomach that risk, they'll happily invest. Imho, BTC has a track record long enough at this point with returns high enough to make it an interesting risky investment for many many institutional investors -- aka, the returns aren't the problem. For example, ask anyone who trades long-dated far-out-of-the-money options how they feel about risky investments. In my opinion, the reliable, safe infrastructure simply isn't there yet to get institutional investors to feel comfortable trading BTC -- it's too much the wild west, with small fly-by-night companies (gox, btc-e, etc) having large market share in the exchange markets.
Just my $0.02.
I own ~4 bitcoins that I mined myself a couple years back just because I thought/think the bitcoin project is cool.
I'd like to buy many, many more bitcoins (to buy and hold, not to HFT). Putting a few hundred thousand dollars into an investment like bitcoin would be something I'd be happy to do - the risk adjusted returns are within my risk profile. I haven't. The reason is I don't trust any of the exchanges. Even the 'reputable' ones are still small/unproven startups. Coming from the wall street world, there's a lot to be said for the security that larger battle-tested financial institutions offer. When you're talking about putting hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars at risk, counterparty risk is a very real concern. At this point in time, no exchange has given me enough faith to trust them with my money, even if it was only for a single hour where I wired it to them and then bought the BTC and transferred the BTC out immediately. While I never would have used gox, just as an example: What if the company happens to blow up in that hour, and I never get my BTC and my USD are stuck in some sketchy small company that is in a foreign bankruptcy proceeding for the next three years?
Wall street types are happy to accept financial risk, but aren't very fond of counterparty risk, especially if we can't hedge it off onto someone else. At the moment that's not particularly possible. If you got even a single reputable financial institution (bank, equity/commodity exchange, something of that nature) to operate a BTC exchange, we'd come flocking.
All of the "fear of the unknown" type comments aren't particularly accurate about why wall street isn't investing bigtime in BTC yet. Wall Street will invest in pretty much any asset as long as the asset provides appropriate levels of risk adjusted returns -- certain assets are clearly far more risky, however, if the returns are sufficient for that level of risk, and that type of investor is able to stomach that risk, they'll happily invest. Imho, BTC has a track record long enough at this point with returns high enough to make it an interesting risky investment for many many institutional investors -- aka, the returns aren't the problem. For example, ask anyone who trades long-dated far-out-of-the-money options how they feel about risky investments. In my opinion, the reliable, safe infrastructure simply isn't there yet to get institutional investors to feel comfortable trading BTC -- it's too much the wild west, with small fly-by-night companies (gox, btc-e, etc) having large market share in the exchange markets.
Just my $0.02.
most people are so ignorant, that even when opportunity slaps them in the face multiple times they still think it's a pigeon shitting on them or something
Gee whiz, a scheme where the people at the top bring in lower-tier investors with big promises of wealth, only to pocket all the real money and run off at some point, leaving the lower level investors with nothing. Huh, where have I heard of such a scheme before?
Yes bitcoin is not popular in most of the countries, even people who are working full time work in internet are not known about bitcoin
They know about it..! most of them they surely do but i guess they are little afraid of jumping into it..! most people are so ignorant, that even when opportunity slaps them in the face multiple times they still think it's a pigeon shitting on them or something
Yes bitcoin is not popular in most of the countries, even people who are working full time work in internet are not known about bitcoin
They know about it..! most of them they surely do but i guess they are little afraid of jumping into it..! Yes bitcoin is not popular in most of the countries, even people who are working full time work in internet are not known about bitcoin
Not only that, most of those online workers still don't "buy" the concept, even having a "techie" profile. Bitcoin clearly needs a killer app that abstracts its use enough to make it mainstream, like Android has done with the Linux Kernel, I mean just 0,1% of Android users know they're running a Linux flavour in their pocket... People (mainstream people, not us) don't want to know about private keys, blockchain and shite. We just need to give them an idiot-proof app/system that gives them the benefit of lower fees, fast transactions, deflationary prices, etc...
And we all know that an app like that will come, but we still don't know from where it will pop-up... It'll be like this FlappyBird game thing: it will catch us off-guard, it'll spread like fire over gunpowder, like a black swan... and then bitcoin will explode. Rest assured...
Only after that, WallStreet will jump in, but it'll be prob "too late"..
Very interesting view, any ideas about this app?
Bitcoin clearly needs a killer app...
Bitcoin's killer app is simply taking Paypal's and VISA/Mastercard's business by being cheaper and more reliable.
Lol.
More reliable? Nothing can be further from the truth.
Cheaper? Not with the fluctuations of the value of bitcoin.
Bitcoin clearly needs a killer app...
Bitcoin's killer app is simply taking Paypal's and VISA/Mastercard's business by being cheaper and more reliable.
Yes bitcoin is not popular in most of the countries, even people who are working full time work in internet are not known about bitcoin
Not only that, most of those online workers still don't "buy" the concept, even having a "techie" profile. Bitcoin clearly needs a killer app that abstracts its use enough to make it mainstream, like Android has done with the Linux Kernel, I mean just 0,1% of Android users know they're running a Linux flavour in their pocket... People (mainstream people, not us) don't want to know about private keys, blockchain and shite. We just need to give them an idiot-proof app/system that gives them the benefit of lower fees, fast transactions, deflationary prices, etc...
And we all know that an app like that will come, but we still don't know from where it will pop-up... It'll be like this FlappyBird game thing: it will catch us off-guard, it'll spread like fire over gunpowder, like a black swan... and then bitcoin will explode. Rest assured...
Only after that, WallStreet will jump in, but it'll be prob "too late"..
Yes bitcoin is not popular in most of the countries, even people who are working full time work in internet are not known about bitcoin
Bitcoin is more popular in the US then in China...
..., yet the Chinese move 70% of the market. And it is "limited"! imagine a bitcoin w/o limitations in China... oh boy, we can just dream of that...
Bitcoin is more popular in the US then in China.
The Chinese population is attracted to bitcoin because they see it as a better alternative to the obvious government control of the official currency.
The main reason that bitcoin holds value is that long-term speculators see that bitcoin has value as a widely-used currency. Bitcoin volatility will reduce once its use as a medium of exchange becomes more widespread. As the volume of transactions is due to people actually buying goods and services with bitcoin rises in comparison to the transactions due to speculation, then Wall Street becomes more interested.
I think bitcoin has sufficient value to not go worthless. Wall street might fear that the US government might outlaw bitcoin in some way, such as making it illegal to buy bitcoin in its jurisdiction, on par with buying drugs or gambling. At this point, the only reason to use bitcoin would be to buy drugs or gamble online, but there would still be demand. Instead of public exchanges that would restrict your participation due to being a US citizen, you would hookup with your local underground bitcoin dealer that exchanges between fiat and bitcoin. I see the situation being like alcohol prohibition -- eventually public pressure would force an end to the prohibition, since the argument can be made that an uncontrolled underground bitcoin economy would be more harmful to the country than a semi-regulated controlled economy.
The main reason that bitcoin holds value is that long-term speculators see that bitcoin has value as a widely-used currency. Bitcoin volatility will reduce once its use as a medium of exchange becomes more widespread. As the volume of transactions is due to people actually buying goods and services with bitcoin rises in comparison to the transactions due to speculation, then Wall Street becomes more interested.
I think bitcoin has sufficient value to not go worthless. Wall street might fear that the US government might outlaw bitcoin in some way, such as making it illegal to buy bitcoin in its jurisdiction, on par with buying drugs or gambling. At this point, the only reason to use bitcoin would be to buy drugs or gamble online, but there would still be demand. Instead of public exchanges that would restrict your participation due to being a US citizen, you would hookup with your local underground bitcoin dealer that exchanges between fiat and bitcoin. I see the situation being like alcohol prohibition -- eventually public pressure would force an end to the prohibition, since the argument can be made that an uncontrolled underground bitcoin economy would be more harmful to the country than a semi-regulated controlled economy.
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