Topic: Where on Google Maps is the crypto bagholders cemetery? (Read 1486 times)

Based on re-reading all your posts, I think you are trying to say that so much of the money invested is fraudulently obtained, thus most speculators  do not feel they are losing because it wasn't "their money" to start with that they invested.

And you seem to even be including for example government handouts as "free money" that isn't registered as a loss in the investor's conscience when it is lost on an altcoin speculation.

Nope.

I think I can only assert that I think it's possible that a lot more money has been lost from governments (as unreported, untaxed income) and people who pay a little extra for their electrical bills for reasons unknown to them (as electricity theft) due to cryptocurrency, than has been lost from people who have invested legitimately and lost a shirt or a house due to cryptocurrency.

If not more, then a large enough proportion that one is not negligible compared to the other.

Enough that its necessary to expand to scope of 'zero sum' to include people who have and want absolutely nothing to do with cryptocurrency. These people would not post here and that would be one part of why you dont see their stories, and less overall losing stories.

Is it possible to measure this?

(Damn I need to read a book or two, its getting harder and harder to articulate anything I think month after month :/ )

So many here are fooled by the geek-cool communication, because they don't understand that what is being said is total bullshit.

Then they attack me when I explain they invested in bullshit.

meme magic, are you asserting only the thieves lose money on altcoins 

Spoetnik, have you lost more than you gained here?

And did you make money by not reporting income?

The point I'm trying to make is that I think that there are very few sob stories not because of male ego, but because I believe its possible that there's an inordinate amount of crypto being bought with income that's not reported. So these people would effectively be implicating themselves in a crime add: if they were to talk about it.

So much that it gives the impression that this board is overrun with scammers silencing the losers, when the possible reality exists that the majority of funds haven't been lost by users here, but those who have been stolen from.

Perspective? (AKA: Context)

Here is one for you guys.

WHY in the hell do you think the World wants to come and get involved in internet scam coins?

You do realize that EARTH thinks Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme right?

So explain to me how in the hell you expect them to take all this stupid bullshit seriously.
When all you guys do is hang around here and brag on about profits ADMITTING you care about nothing else.

I have been asking this for years..

Don't waste your time they REALLY honestly can not comprehend that fact.
It would not matter how you explain it or how often.. they are all mostly not smart enough to get it.

Blind by greed .

Yup.

I just think the 'game' involves a few more people than crypto bagholders though. Like the people who've had their electricity stolen. Or any crypto that's been bought with stolen funds, like those from anyone who's evaded an income tax and bought more crypto instead of reporting income. Or anyone who has forgone registration or licensing fees to conduct business.

Is it possible that a lot more than would be assumed has been done with stolen money, and some people just don't care when they lose parts of it because it's more than they would have had?

Pump with stolen money. Mine with stolen electricity. Chase pumps with stolen money. Repeat.

Along that line - the service in this business would seem a bit crooked. I think it encouragescould encourage the theft of electricity in order to create tax havens and it seems more and more like that year after year save for a few efforts.

Is that so far of a reach that's not possible here, or are we numb to this, or am I just so far off base?

Interesting perspective. I feel as though the lack of investor disciple in this space, which is a result of lack of investor education, means that the majority of people are most likely losing. Hell, I lost huuuge on NeoBee myself.And that's on exchanges, I'm not speaking to the known ponzis and transparent scams folks like to chuck money at around here. The fact that the majority of the securities and alts of the past went ass up means that if you invested in a certain timeframe, about 3 years ago, you probably got burned at some point.

Have you ever considered the elementary school math of addition and subtraction which tells you that it is impossible for everyone to make more than they lose, since all money invested has to originate with us collectively.

We are not investing in businesses which sell a product or service to generate revenue.

Zero-sum game:

I love reading and learning about the tech fundamentals, but for the average guy like me I'm looking at a lot of other things when I decide to take a punt on an alt. Who is the dev, how well do they communicate, do they sound 'authentic', who else is posting in their threads? A good altcoin speculator can (hopefully) distill something from those things, and then make an educated guess at the chances of survival for 1-2 years. From there it's still a big lottery, but that's a potential firecracker alt that might ignite. That doesn't mean I'm trying to be one of the guys lighting the fuse, I'm just 'watching' with my bag, and that's different from being a religious zealot, or being in on any scams. For me it's more like picking horses at the track, and like in that field accepting that you don't know a lot makes you better at keeping your head above water.

Just for the sake of addressing the thought, has anyone considered the possibility that so few people have lost more than they've gained here that there's just not enough stories to have a cemetary at all?

Sure, lots of people have lost out on a trade here or there .. sometimes pretty big. But, over the length of their time here could more people than we think have netted a larger overall gain?

That's good, qwizzie.

I agree. Also if you follow that good old piece of advice "Never bet more than you can afford to lose" you won't be too bitter during a loss stretch

Scenerio 1

You need to know Bitcoin is not anonymous, transactions of it can be traced and its coin history can be mis-used to block you at certain third party's
You also need to know that its founder identity is unknown and that a large sum of bitcoins is held by that person and / or group
Lastly you will need to know that there is a conflict going on for some time now on how to go forward with regards to scalability and general vision on Bitcoin and that this conflict is
still ungoing, creating uncertainty in the market.

Scenerio 2

You need to know a lot of development has taken place in the altcoin scene and you will have to find out for yourself which cryptocurrency best fits with your own needs. Important points to take into consideration :

Does the altcoin you are possibly interested in show signs of active development ?
Does the altcoin you are possibly interested in have a track record with quickly solving problems ? (in other words, does it have a capable dev team ?)
Does the altcoin you are possibly interested in have roadmaps and does it have a history of successfully finishing those roadmaps ?
Does the dev team of that altcoin you are possibly interested in provide clear and detailed feedback to its community ?
Is there information to obsorb about the altcoin's past you are possibly interested in ? and does it have a vision ?

So basicly every investor should do its own homework by doing some research himself and dont rely purely on a forum.

But most importantly, only invest that which you can spare to loose and be aware that cryptocurrency by nature is highly volatile and contains therefore considerable risks.

Agree.

So...how about this...what would you, or more likely what DO you (not The Pharmacist specifically, but people in general) say to this...

1)  I'm thinking about buying some Bitcoin.  You know a little about it.  What do I need to know?

2)  I've held Bitcoin for about a year.  I'm concerned about blocksize, halving ramifications, developer static, etc... and I'm thinking about branching out to alts.  What do I need to know?

Pride.  People don't flock to discussion forums to brag about how stupid they are or how they got sandbagged.  Well, some do.  But they're usually looking for sympathy or a handout or both and this forum provides neither.

There should be a thread, club, or organization like AA for bagholders.  They can all commiserate together in one place pumping their respective bags. 

Hold it! We already have such a place. bitcointalk.org.

And so as someone wrote upthread, when one of those firecrackers starts to pump, you are going to be sucked into supporting any scam it has become, even if you long since stopped believing the hype. And you can find yourself sucked into a fight with someone and taking the side of the scammers, because that person insulted you.

I mean all rationality can become mixed up due to the timing mismatches in the probabilistic nature of speculation.

Thus talking technological fundamentals on a speculation board is asking to be everyone's antagonist. Welcome to my dilemma.

I think if you pick 30-40 alts with decent attributes close to when they launch, or when they're languishing in the gutter, then if you're patient and don't give up you can break even or better. Qora just went from 3 sats to 40 sats recently. When it was at 3 it was a great buy coz it still had active devs but absolutely no hype, so chances were good it would come back. It could have died, but at 3 sats it was a good bet. There's still plenty of coins like that around with caps below 200K. You just need to have enough of them (30+), the returns when they come in can pay for the duds