Topic: Who are owners of this forum? (Bounty Manager or Users?) - page 2. (Read 866 times)

The vast majority of signature campaigns quite clearly state their rules in the opening post, and those rules frequently contain a clause about no alt accounts.

You can be hired and fired in the real world without giving reasons or examples. Why should campaigns for trash tokens be held to a higher standard?

If I did not want fair competition, then surely I would be arguing for alt accounts so I could try to get my alts on to ChipMixer as well?

The bottom line is an individual or company who is hiring people to perform a task is allowed to set the rules of that employment. If you don't like those rules, don't apply.

The problem is when campaign managers are corrupt and do not apply the same transparent rules to all members, this opens them up to back handers and ALL KINDS of legitimate criticism.

We should probably insist that all campaign managers present transparent clear rules that can be applied to all members. They should also be able to detail why a person was excluded or accepted with their own examples. Not just relying on the self awarded merits and self awarded trust positions/scores of those system controllers that BY COINCIDENCE happen to award only themselves enough trust and merit to be accepted by the very best paying sig campaigns ACCORDING to those campaign managers. Sadly though the level of trust and merit each is REALLY deserving is easily debunked as FALSE.

I mean many people on chipmixer are the same people that have clear and undeniable observable instances of financially motivated wrong doing in their histories BUT apparently are accepted due to being so TRUSTWORTHY lol. Same for merit many of the top merit holders are unable to present even 10 of their best original thought inspiring posts for analysis because they know they have no really made any that will stand up to scrutiny.

YOU ARE CORRECT that sig campaigns and campaign managers are actually the ROOT of many of the problems on this forum. The only people you will find claiming there needs be no transparent clear rules applied to all members ARE THOSE ON THOSE HIGHLY PAID SIG CAMPAIGNS. They do not want fair competition.

This is EVEN MORE dangerous when dealing with the initial distribution of tokens if the bounties make up a substantial amount of the initial minting available when it hits exchanges. If you allow corrupt and back room deals and manipulation here then you are placing the entire board in danger.

Something should be done about it and campaign managers need to be accountable for their OWN decisions not pass the buck and accountability to DT who are proven untrustworthy already.

Clear transparent rules stated. Applied equally to all forum members. NOT relying on the undeniably gamed metrics of merit and trust. They need to some some work themselves or move over for campaign managers that will stand by their own decisions.

It's strange to see people referencing the forum rules when they join a campaign, as if people are not allowed to establish their own rules to facilitate their own operations.

The forum rules may govern what we post here but those rules can be further limited if you are applying for a campaign which may have stricter requirements than what the forum allows. After all, as far as the forum rules are concerned, you can be a massive scammer, possibly stealing hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins, and still be allowed to post here. But, if you happen to plagiarize content, that's no good.

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If someone is hiring you for a job, they can dismiss you at their discretion. Duh.

There is no law against holding two jobs, but the same business isn't going to employ the same person twice in two different positions.

There is no law saying a customer can only buy one item, but businesses limit some items to one person customer during promotional events.

There is no law against using multiple coupons or discounts, but businesses will only let you apply one discount at a time.

At the end of the day, bounty campaigns operate like a business - you are employed by them to provide a service, and they pay you for your time (even if the payment is some utterly worthless token). They are free to stipulate any rules they wish, regardless of what the forum rules say. If the bounty rules clearly state "no alt accounts", and you willingly ignore/break that rule, then you are liable to receive red trust for dishonesty. If you don't agree with this rule, then you are free not to work for these companies/projects.

The forum rules also allow local rules to be implemented on top of forum rules, and allow self-moderated threads where posts can be deleted by the topic starter for any reason they so wish, regardless of whether or not these posts break forum rules.

It does matter to an advertiser more since no advertiser would want 1 individual posing as multiple individuals. Why does it not get to you that there is no need for multiple accounts for things you can do with 1 account. You seem to ignore this completely. Campaign managers are not against any forum rules. If a campaign wants only 10 individuals of a particular rank, what is the point when 1 individual fills all the 10 positions available? Why are you ignoring the fact that joining a campaign with multiple accounts is UNETHICAL? No one would give a negative trust if the campaign allows multiple account usage. Negative trust is a must if a user joins with multiple accounts when the campaign does not allow. Even if the campaign allows multiple accounts, I would still say that joining a bounty campaign with multiple accounts is unethical. Give a genuine reason what you are trying to prove by joining a bounty campaign with multiple accounts. An user who joins a bounty campaign with multiple accounts when he/she is not supposed to as per the campaign rules can be tagged as a scammer. Don't bring in forum rules here. It has nothing to do with bounty campaigns. Its simple. If you are paid to post as 1 user, follow and post as per the rules of the person paying you. If you don't agree to the campaign rules, you are free to not join the campaign. You want to get paid more so you want to scam the bounty campaign with multiple accounts. What is wrong in tagging with a negative trust for such scams?

That is correct but someone who hired you told you that you are not allowed to use more than one account in their campaign so you are not allowed to use more than one account in their campaign. You still can post from multiple accounts whatever you want whenever you want (as long as you don't break forum rules) and you can use accounts in other campaigns, no one can really forbid you to do that nor should tag you or ban you.

Because it doesn't matter to the advertiser.
The important thing for the advertiser is to advertise under quality messages.
This can only be achieved using the merit system.
I think campaign managers should look for these terms.
It doesn't make sense to set a counter-rule for something the forum allows.

It is also not true to give negative trust because of this counter-rule.

Thank you Yahoo.

My friends, just try to understand what I'm saying.

Neither users nor bounty managers are owners of the forum. Bounty threads are managed by bounty managers on behalf of the respective coin/token owners. The bounty campaign rules are put forth by the respective coin/token owners or the campaign manager approved by the respective coin/token owners and has nothing to do with the Bitcointalk forum, the rules of the forum or the owner of the forum. Since an user participating in a bounty campaign is paid for his/her participation, it is only ethical if the user follows all the rules of the campaign. Just because an user is allowed to create multiple accounts does not mean he/she can use this liberty to cheat (SCAM) bounty campaigns. Why is there a need to enter a bounty campaign with multiple accounts when you can post the same thing with 1 account? Isn't that FRAUD against the campaign owners. If an user purposely joins a bounty campaign with multiple accounts he/she definitely deserves a negative trust for scamming or trying to scam the campaign owners. Why should it be considered ethical when you are trying to scam a bounty campaign? Sure, the purpose of advertising is to show more people and you can do that with a single account. If you are going to get paid for doing something, do what the person who pays tells you to do. Its their money, their rules. Either follow it or don't join the campaign. You are not doing a favor to the campaign owners by posting with multiple accounts in the same campaign. If you are confusing this with certain programs paying a handful of people posing as hundreds of people promoting the same program in multiple places, you are wrong. That is unethical as well.

From your post it looks like this forum is a desert for the mind, void of emotions and barren of thoughts but in reality it's not like that. I am posting what I want and where I want and was always doing that, otherwise tell me any idea why to post? Signature campaigns are the result of freedom that is on this forum.
But when someone creates sig campaign and in requirement state that you mustn't have alt account, then what's wrong with it? They run campaign with their own rules, it's not their duty to meet your requirements but if you want to be in their campaign or bounty or etc, you have to meet their requirement. Is there any job that asks you what you want to do and how much salary do you want to get in doing particular thing that you wish to do? I think no.
Don't join sig and you'll be 100% free with as many alt accounts as you wish. I have no idea why these people want to dramatize normal things.

Additional:
The forum rules say "you can use alternative accounts".
Rules don't say, "You can't join the same ad campaign."
So you can use your account as you like.
The purpose of advertising campaigns is to show more people.
Researching people like the police is not the goal.

The missing rule in Bounty is:
"You must earn xx merits in the last 120 days"
If you are looking for quality in the forum, the merit system was made for this.
If conditions are changed appropriately, advertising campaigns also achieve their goal.
After writing quality articles for years, an account can join any campaign.
Why are you fighting so much for this? Merit is very difficult and hard to win.

Why isn't it considered ethical to participate in the same ad campaign?
Whose ethical judgments will we accept? There is no such jurisdiction in the forum rules.
This is not fraud. This situation does not deserve negative trust.
Because the rules fit this situation. We're just discussing ethically.

You have written many valuable comments. My goal is not a bad thing. It's just an ethical-philosophical discussion.

So you are saying that campaigns should allow multiple accounts and the one who doesn't follow should be banned from this forum?

Bounty rules were set by the bounty managers because they are the managers but they can't be considered as forum owners just because they are setting bounty. Bounty is just a part of this forum.

I'm struggling to envision a scenario where a brand new account is going to be easier to trade from than an established account, unless the established account is red trusted, in which case making an alt account to avoid the red trust is completely unethical.

I'm not sure I'd call them allegations when they have been definitively proven. I'm also not sure I'd say he's tempered, he's just moved most of his activity to another alt account.

In the intial post, OP wanted a philosophical discussion. Having alt-accounts in the forum can be in two ways:

1. Known Alts: Like Loyce/ Loyce_mobile
2. Unknown Alts: This is for those cases when, like you said in the beginning, you want to express something that you otherwise would not.

The unknown alts territory is a lot murkier. If someone wants to start trade dealings here but do not want them to be influenced by their previous presence, they may go for an Alt account, which is reasonable as long as they do not scam.

The fight is about two type of Alt-accounts. First are those who want to enroll in the "same" signature campaigns multiple times. These are not allowed as per bounty rules. Second type are those who make alt-accounts to support themselves in an ongoing argument. These are generally allegations when a recently created nesbie accounts starts using colorful/ abusive language.

There is no way to stop them and the forum doesn't try to do that. It becomes apparent to the involved parties after a certain time. Yet, when the ability to have alternate accounts becomes a business tool, then problems arise. Any discussions on Alts will remain unfulfilled without mentioning @Quickseller. The guy is a bit of an enigma and has had allegations of running Alt account networks for a long time.
I think @Suchmoon has a bit of a research on this because he had this declared in his Signature for a long time. Quickseller seems to have tempered a bit since then. He was on fire back during the ICO craze going up against Lauda et al.

Its quite a saga.

Forum rules and bounty rules is difference. This forum have their rules. Bounty Manager have their own rules too. You can't equate the two. Having multiple account are allowed, but you can't make all your account for your greedy to join bounty.

OP, you should use some common sense. Ok, forum rules allows to have multiple account. And nobody will say anything to you as long as you're not using it for bad purposes.
But every campaign has it own rules (which doesn't goes against forum rules). And ask yourself, why bounty managers should accept multiple aaccounts? It simply will make their campaign less effective and it's not good for advertiser.
Also, forum rules says that scams aren't moderated. So, following your logic, DT members don't have right to paint scammers with red trust.

Just make it simple,
No one will ban your account if you create multiple accounts by following forum rules. Such as ban evasion, you are not allowed to create multiple accounts if your one account got ban.

No one will tag if you not involved with abuse, if your one account tagged then all of your alt account will tagged if in case revealed with enough evidence. You will get tag if you don't follow campaign rules about multiple accounts. If managers do not allow multiple accounts then don't abuse, otherwise you will get tag.

It is also a sign of greed trying to add to your pay on the same bounty campaign. If you have alt accounts, you can enroll them in different bounties, I do not think that is against the rules, if your posts on the two accounts are quality posts, then you should be able to get them both on different bounties at the same time. Being on the same bounty with more than one account is cheeky/cunny that's why the accounts get red tagged for it.
I do not see what this has to do with your post, Just read the rules next time and digest them properly.

The OP seems to be clueless and cannot distinguish between Forum rules and Bounty rules.
Forum rules allow to have an alt account, even theymos have an alt account.
Whereas bounty rules do not allow to join campaigns with alt accounts held by the same person, this violates the bounty campaign rules.

Even Royse777, yahooo62278 (as Senior Bounty Manager) and o_e_l_e_o have said the same thing that bounty campaigns using multiple accounts
are strictly prohibited and if violated they will be given a Red Trust.




This forum does not narrow your space to express your imagination and thoughts,
but there are certain rules that you must understand and you can distinguish.

If you are using multiple profile to abuse signature campaigns, you are depriving other deserving members from being a part of such a campaign. All the members should have equal chances and we should try to include as many members as possible for availing the benefits of higher ranks.

Also, with the new merit requirements, having multiple profiles is itself useless as it will be hard to manage and grow multiple accounts.

The OP's post here makes my head spin, it's so hard to understand.

Yeah, it's not against the rules to have alt accounts.  Even some DT members do, and it's no secret and there isn't any forum drama or anything about that fact.  The problem is when members use alt accounts to enroll in the same bounties or campaigns, or if alt accounts are all posting in the same thread, because that becomes a spam issue--and I've seen that recently in a thread.

Then don't read them.  You'll just become tired and annoyed.


The forum rules don't say anything about campaigns.  You made that leap yourself. 

It's not "ethical" to enroll multiple accounts in one campaign or bounty.  It's selfish, because you're taking up spots that could go to some other member, plus it's probably against the rules of the campaign anyway.  It is abuse, and you're not going to change anybody's mind with your argument.