Topic: Who exactly told theymos to change the threshold to 250 cycled merits? - page 3. (Read 1634 times)

So is JayJuanGee... and he has 600+ merits. He can even troll people in that thread and have a good chance of racking up the merit.


The WO thread is a decentralized approach.  Virtually anyone can rack up the merits there, although the supply has been drying up lately. Bulls and Bitcoin maximalists do have an easier time. But hey, this is bitcointalk after all.

CH, I can't stop anyone, I'm just advising people who already have you on ignore to not waste their time on your wall of text.

I still don't know what "key positions" are, sounds kinky but not quite sure how it relates to DT.


CH is more of a verbal person, memes are too much work.

However, I have already said I will willingly be blacklisted from BOTH systems of control merit source and DT so i have no need of gaining 250 merits if we can swap it to a REAL decentralised approach.

CH should just go to the WO thread, request a hat avatar, and post rocket memes. He'll have 250+ merits in no time. It's really not that hard. 

Suchmoon is basically trying to stop you reading the FACTs contained within the post. Not that these are even the important facts just demonstrate what a double standards scum bag this person is. I have seen suchmoon red trust people for supporting a "POSSIBLE" scam. What a double standards scum bag. Then tells me good poster bad poster is a meaningless term without strict criteria and definition whilst arguing for the validity of merit score and indication of valuable poster. What an imbecile that snitchy bitch is.

1. suchmoon cycles merit to

a/ proven liars
b/ proven trust abusers
c/ proven greedy sneaky sock puppet racist troll sig spammers.

2. Suchmoon includes on her trust list

a/ proven liars
b/ proven trust abusers
c/ proven greedy sneaky sock puppet racist troll sig spammers.

3. Suchmoon excludes the same persons in her DT lists as

a/ proven liars
b/ proven trust abusers
c/ proven greedy sneaky sock puppet racist troll sig spammers.

4. Suchmoon has said that the merit system and it score is MEANINGLESS but wants to continue basing key positions of trust on that MEANINGLESS score.

In short ignore everything this observable imbecile suchmoron "claims" if you want any hope of finding the truth on any matter.

Anyone who wants to refute these facts then feel free to do so or you can bring a case for keeping it at 250 earned cycled merits over 100 merits +1500 activity.

Glad suchmoron read the entire post and selects out as it usually does misses the key points of the post.

Back on topic.

1. prevents obvious collusion and groups becoming entrenched
2. more incentive to act honestly because
a/ harder to replace blacklisted account will take years
b/ more likely already wealthy so lack of need for scam bucks
3/ more history to analyse and see if one they look trustworthy or have a reason to black list them from the start.


250 earned merits has zero advantage over 100 merits +1500 activity only to give a tight knit group control over trust and merit and free speech. Broken and damaging and dangerous.

For anyone who values their sanity: don't click "Show/Hide".

CH is basically whining about not receiving merits in this thread while other users did, therefore merit system is bad and 250-merit requirement is bad, whereas 2000 activity is good. You've probably heard that before.

There is no drama there is rather serious and sensible concern that
a/ DT key positions are held by those that are observably untrustworthy and abusing their power
b/ nothing is done to remove them nor undo the damage they are doing
c/ Red trust is being used to silence and discredit those bringing forth facts and observable events demonstrating clear wrong dong by DT key position holders.

So far I...

1. I see no rebuttal or even an attempt at once concerning my assertion that reducing the merit requirement and increasing the activity to 1500 or 2000 would be more useful. This is for the key positions only not for who can be on DT after all.

It is possible and is clearly observable that merit is cycled to those familiar with each other and often for political reasons and just general shitposts. Basically any excuse to empower those that will willingly collude and gang together pushing the same agenda. Merit is useful at stopping account farming ONLY it becomes very damaging to use it for anything else or by trying to attribute any other meaning to a MEANINGLESS (as suchmoon described it) score.  

Visit my thread of the year and try to understand just how dangerous the merit system is and MORE SO now that it has been turned into the TRUST system too. Nobody has refuted this in that thread because it is not possible to refute the dangers of such a system. It is wide open to and actually encourages people to abuse it for self interest.

If you wish to debate that then go to that thread and do so. Not here.

That thread serves as a prime example as to why merit in its current form is damaging misleading and political junk.
My posts especially the latter ones there are a clear and accurate description of how open the systems are to abuse and how they even set clear and selfish motives for that abuse. Yet there is no merit given and a post that makes a faux and empty rebuttal is given merit purely on political grounds because it suits those meriting for that to be seen as the most merit worthy post. There was nothing wrong with that post essentially on that it did not make the refutation that those meriting wanted to make out that it did. As I later pointed out clearly.

So merit score = unreliable at best and misleading and dangerous at worst. It means fuck all to do with trust and mostly noobs here observably asskissing and grovelling for merits and becoming self made ALREADY SPAMMING THEIR GAMBLING AND SIGS EVERYWHERE are only here to power up for high paid spamming slots.

Activity is NOT gameable in that it takes a minimum amount of time to replace a 2000 activity account. Once it is lost due to abuse or  black listed from a position of trust you will not be powering that up again for many years. Hence the incentive to act sensibly within the guidelines or framework that Theymos has set. Trust abusers can look forward to 5 years work to power up another alt to get back into the trust system.

Merit can be recycled very quickly I notice the lauda atrix 50 swap of merits (was that deleted by theymos like my 10 merits was for my post which was deserving of merit in its own right when theirs looks like a piece of advertising crap).

It is the prevention of collusion you want in a decentralised system. We can see the members that would hold the key positions in the trust system if we went with 100 earned merit and 1500 have less observable "pal connections" and there is no way to encourage new ass kissers and acoyltes and power them up to bolster your position in DT as there are now.

The only reason to have 250 earned (cycled) merits is to ensure the entrenchment of merit cyclers in the key positions of DT.

I would like to see one real debate over the advantages of 250 cycled merits over 100 merits +1500 activity. This is for key positions this does not mean the only people that can be on DT does it anyway.

However having the same political group who cycle merits to each other having the key positions in trust is a simply a FAKE decentralised system compared to what would be possible.

I would also say anyone that has EVER done anything clearly untrustworthy or that demonstrates extreme financial greed and no thought to effects on the forum for that should be auto black listed by a higher authority. If someone can tell me why that should not happen is welcome to explain.

Suchmoon of course as well as being an observable moron and the sort of imbecile that debunks her own arguments or ends up screaming out ludicrous statements to cling on to an observable pile of shit to substantiate her insane views  is also a willing and staunched supporter of those that have been PROVEN to be untrustworthy and greedy. I can not take anything she says seriously now.

I see some persons here that are not going to qualify for the 1500 activity threshold that are actually trying to help and also not spamming sigs everywhere for gambing and other crap those can still go on DT they will just not hold the key positions.

TLDR = KEY POSITIONS SHOULD BE 100 MERITS + 1500 ACTIVITY TO PREVENT OBVIOUS COLLUSION AND CREATE SOME REAL ATTEMPT AT A DECENTRALISED SYSTEM. I would even consider 50 merits and 1500 activity far superior to what we have now if you care about preventing collusion and ensuring free speech is not crushed here.

You can always take qwks view = the trush is not important and that wrongly placed red trust is helpful since it makes persons more wary of trading in general. If that is the case just make a bot that just goes around splattering people with red trust and make sure you hit those with the most green trust more often.

On the other hand theymos could say

I will black list any trust abusing scum bag that red trusts someone that is not a scammer or strongly likely to scam. Then it would not matter too much who was in DT. Even so 1500 activity could be useful so they simply don't return and do it again soon after.  Time to regain the power that was taken away is key.

Lauda is but a symptom of the problem as are the other trust abusers who have a dark history here. A trust system that works does not have these people in the key positions.

Do it with 2000 activity too... because that's what CH is really aiming for. 1500 leaves too many merit recyclers in the list because they obviously registered back in 2013-2015 like a sleeper cell and patiently waited 4-5 years for theymos to implement merits so that they could take over the forum.

In other words: further centralizing the DT-system to a group of old users, excluding new contributors.

I'm working on a topic with different DT1-scenarios, for which I'll create a Rankup pipeline.
So far, I'll include:
250+ Merit and minimum Activity 1500
100+ Merit instead of 250+, and still minimum Activity 1500

I'd like to add some more scenarios, to show the consequences of certain choices.
Please add scenarios to the list!

TBH, I usually don't get past the 1st sentence on most of CH's posts. Therefore, it's a challenge to do a complete analysis of the logic.  

You might be confusing CH with someone who can do math or logic

      The good news for me is that I would gain my vote again by the April vote, unless I stopped posting. The 2000 activity limit would take a while though... What I find a bit odd is that none of these criteria would exclude Lauda unless theymos put her on the blacklist. Isn't Lauda one of the main targets for cryptohunter?

You're in good company though


There isn't much DT drama anymore... mostly just CH drama. The buses-bicycles "coup" didn't work so here is a new diversion approaching "election" day.

Thanks for the list sm.

was i just called a "Loser"    ?

Let's see what cryptohunter thinks about the list and whether he thinks the "suggested" list could end the DT drama or not.

It's not ~45 users losing the right to vote. ~100 users would lose the right to vote and ~55 users would gain it. The lists below is not 100% accurate because my merit data is ~2 weeks old but it should give you a good enough approximation of the impact.

Losers:


Winners:

Cryptohunter's proposal




Current system



so your proposal will exclude  45 members ( including me   ) ,  but do you really think that these 45 votes are the issue ?

suchmoon i don't want to be greedy with my "wants" but can you put a list of those who won't be able to "vote" if cryptohunter's proposal is applied ?

---

i am pretty sure the majority of the remaining members will be those you have an issue with now ( excluding me and a few other new members).

cryptohunter, you’re not a stupid/dumb guy. I can tell from your posts that you’re pretty intelligent.
250 earned Merit’s is 100% achievable for you if you drop the everybody vs you thing. 250 earned Merit’s stops alts & real bad shit posters having a say on DT.

That thread where you guys were trying to manipulate DT - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/remove-corruption-from-dt-union-trust-list-9604-5103988 has alts galore posting in it

Literally just the other day marlboroza made a thread showing that ac2eugenio (one of the people attempting to manipulate DT) has a string of alts. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ac2eugenio-maybe-alts-5114184

This shows that most of the retards in that DT manipulation attempt thread were most likely  alts of each other. Imagine if we had that on a large scale, loads of them with 100 Merit running the forum.

You’re not dumb, you can earn 250 Merit & get a vote. Those alts are what they are - alts, scum bags & the 100 Merit total was too low. 250 Merit’s means we have more chance of fair & trustworthy people in DT.

well these are all just assumptions cryptohunter, but anyhow, if the "gang" controls merit, then they likely do control most accounts with 1500 activities too , don't you think ?

NO just because merit is kept within a tight circle for control purposes does not mean 250 merits is at all hard to replicate if one gets knocked out if you have an alt or friends in the inner circle. They can do nothing at all to speed up activity so you lose a 5 year old account it will take 5 years to replace it. You lose a 250 merits account it can be replaced far more quickly if you have alts pals in the merit merry-go-round.

250 gamed and cycled merits can be earned very quickly by alts of merit sources, ass kissers and other established members of the merit circle.

As I have also stated there are other reasons for activity to be more suitable to trust.

but isn't this alone a good reason to conclude that 250 merit is worth more than 1500 activities, which goes exactly against this


what is harder to get , is certainly more important to keep, you need to also consider that activate's only strength is 'time'  , there are thousands of shitposters, bots and scammers who would very likely have all the activity you want,at any point, its only a matter of time, merit on the other hand is way harder to obtain.

TL;DR adding activity to it is not a bad idea, reducing merit required is a bad idea.