Topic: Why $13,000 was unsustainable. (Read 6815 times)
This is still true, this was posted late June. This how to properly think of bitcoin and crypto.
Still true. Still accurate lol
The thread won't stop anything or make bitcoin to rise or fall. Market price and manipulation by whales will continue to happen and this is responsible to price reaction but a better understanding of technical analysis helps .
Still true. Still accurate lol
This thread is important to allow people to understand how and WHY bitcoin behaves the ways it does. There is a constant downward pressure that must be accounted for in new investment.
Aaron
I have just posted a new thread about the creation cost vs the historical price.
Check it out here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-creation-cost-vs-price-finding-the-real-bottom-5177729
Hope everyone is having a relaxed day!
Aaron
I have just posted a new thread about the creation cost vs the historical price.
Check it out here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-creation-cost-vs-price-finding-the-real-bottom-5177729
Hope everyone is having a relaxed day!
OP, answer this. Then why is the network total hashing power in an all-time high, if $13,000 is "not sustainable"? Miners are "speculators" too. When hashing power increases, they know something
I'm not OP, but I think I can answer this
The network hashing power might have been on the rise (I really don't know if it is so but let's proceed from your assumption) because it's been profitable to mine since we had prices like 5k (and below). And as you have noticed yourself, miners are speculators (without any reservations), and they were likely just fixing profits at anything above 10k as many a speculator would do
That gives them the required safety net in case Bitcoin crashes to 5k and below again (this is still a possibility). In plain terms, miners are following a simple rule, like (rephrasing Napoleon) time we can recover, price never. So they strike while the iron is hot, which is perfectly understandable if you ask me
It is really important to understand how bitcoin really works! This thread speaks of the fundamentals of bitcoin and crypto!
I think new money is still coming into bitcoin, it is the old money going out of bitcoin that is the problem. People think that we need a lot of money to increase the price because we need money to keep buying bitcoin but if we could have managed to make people not sell the coins they have instead of trying to convince people to buy bitcoin they don't have, then we could have sustain it easily.
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
The only way to profit with the whales and miners is to know what they are doing:
https://www.amsinger.org/
If you could get rich on your TA you wouldn’t be sharing it
It is not that it has been unsustainable, it is that the big Bitcoin Investors are beginning to touch these price levels to be able to test these areas in some way, and it was determined that there is a lot of supply there, and little by little the offer should decrease.
Many experts said that this fall of Bitcoin is due to a Chinese Ponzi scheme, which accumulated around 70,000 Bitcoins + 800,000 ETH, since they started since 2018 with an interesting investment and profit base, but some claim that the wallets of this scheme do not It has moved many Bitcoins, because initially it was said that they were selling Bitcoins in small packages to mislead ..
The market may move largely because of this, but in the same way there are many interests that are mostly bullish, this means that it is very likely that the market will fall but will recover as soon as possible.
Many experts said that this fall of Bitcoin is due to a Chinese Ponzi scheme, which accumulated around 70,000 Bitcoins + 800,000 ETH, since they started since 2018 with an interesting investment and profit base, but some claim that the wallets of this scheme do not It has moved many Bitcoins, because initially it was said that they were selling Bitcoins in small packages to mislead ..
The market may move largely because of this, but in the same way there are many interests that are mostly bullish, this means that it is very likely that the market will fall but will recover as soon as possible.
OP, answer this. Then why is the network total hashing power in an all-time high, if $13,000 is "not sustainable"? Miners are "speculators" too. When hashing power increases, they know something.
I think new money is still coming into bitcoin, it is the old money going out of bitcoin that is the problem. People think that we need a lot of money to increase the price because we need money to keep buying bitcoin but if we could have managed to make people not sell the coins they have instead of trying to convince people to buy bitcoin they don't have, then we could have sustain it easily.
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
The only way to profit with the whales and miners is to know what they are doing:
https://www.amsinger.org/
I think new money is still coming into bitcoin, it is the old money going out of bitcoin that is the problem. People think that we need a lot of money to increase the price because we need money to keep buying bitcoin but if we could have managed to make people not sell the coins they have instead of trying to convince people to buy bitcoin they don't have, then we could have sustain it easily.
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
All we had to do was stop the whales from manipulating and selling and stop miners to sell all their coins to make up for the costs and we would easily have 13k and even 20k+ because that wouldn't require a lot of money to make it high since there are fewer sellers in the market.
However, since we couldn't convince sellers to sell the buyers are never gonna be enough because there is a limited amount of money that can get into bitcoin where is there is no limit to saying "I am not selling".
I am off the opinion that $13000 is high enough and the value really corresponding with the number of transactions that we have in the market, that is why I don’t support those who thinks that the market is being manipulated with all these glaring transactions that you and I are seeing and you even believing that it ought to have gone higher than this in value compared to the number of transaction in the market, but I think that $13800 really corresponds with the number of real transaction that we see.
Know that not all the transaction’s that you see in the market can really be counted because we have so many of them that are manipulated transaction, and some are nit as a result of new investors but transactions within the older investors, so only count the transaction from new demand of bitcoin which I think really tallies with that of btc..
Know that not all the transaction’s that you see in the market can really be counted because we have so many of them that are manipulated transaction, and some are nit as a result of new investors but transactions within the older investors, so only count the transaction from new demand of bitcoin which I think really tallies with that of btc..
The way I see it 40% up in less than a week for any market is manipulation. That’s when I posted this when it was ~13k. Bitcoin is rampant with manipulation. That is why I made my metrics to see through the manipulation to the reality of the business action behind it.
Aaron
I am off the opinion that $13000 is high enough and the value really corresponding with the number of transactions that we have in the market, that is why I don’t support those who thinks that the market is being manipulated with all these glaring transactions that you and I are seeing and you even believing that it ought to have gone higher than this in value compared to the number of transaction in the market, but I think that $13800 really corresponds with the number of real transaction that we see.
Know that not all the transaction’s that you see in the market can really be counted because we have so many of them that are manipulated transaction, and some are nit as a result of new investors but transactions within the older investors, so only count the transaction from new demand of bitcoin which I think really tallies with that of btc..
Know that not all the transaction’s that you see in the market can really be counted because we have so many of them that are manipulated transaction, and some are nit as a result of new investors but transactions within the older investors, so only count the transaction from new demand of bitcoin which I think really tallies with that of btc..
When bitcoin's price is $13,000 it would take $23.4 million per day of new LONGTERM investment to maintain that price simply to pay out the 1800bitcoin/day that miners produce. If $13,000 was maintained throughout the year it would take $8.5 billion of new unflinching holders to sustain that price. The price just took a dump to $11,760 for this reason.
Personally I think $13,000 laughably high. I think this because I use numbers and financial data to understand bitcoin. I do not wish. I do not hope. I know what a good price to buy bitcoin is because I understand the risk based on the creation cost.
If you want to understand bitcoin in a financial sense, and not in a magical & mystical sense, you can learn more at this site:
https://www.amsinger.org
Without things like creation cost and cash flow analysis I would be lost in bitcoin. I would be slave to the whims of the whales, pumping whenever they want and dumping whenever they want. Instead I use my mind and these numbers to know when it is logical and low risk to buy and conversely to sell.
Aaron
P.S. Come on trolls, I am ready for you. Only a troll sees someone using facts and data and sprays cuss words and insults. Intelligent people ask questions or make logical statements, they do not yell at numbers.
Personally I think $13,000 laughably high. I think this because I use numbers and financial data to understand bitcoin. I do not wish. I do not hope. I know what a good price to buy bitcoin is because I understand the risk based on the creation cost.
If you want to understand bitcoin in a financial sense, and not in a magical & mystical sense, you can learn more at this site:
https://www.amsinger.org
Without things like creation cost and cash flow analysis I would be lost in bitcoin. I would be slave to the whims of the whales, pumping whenever they want and dumping whenever they want. Instead I use my mind and these numbers to know when it is logical and low risk to buy and conversely to sell.
Aaron
P.S. Come on trolls, I am ready for you. Only a troll sees someone using facts and data and sprays cuss words and insults. Intelligent people ask questions or make logical statements, they do not yell at numbers.
Nice try to attract newbies that are not aware of what is going on with the market.
13k is not high considering the fact that the number of transactions that happen daily has increased significantly.
I wonder, what data do you rely your analysis on?
Subscribe to his "masterclass", if you want to know more. Hahaha.
But it's always nothing but technical analysis mumbo jumbo, disregarding the importance of long term fundamentals.
The $13K price really has nothing to do with it, I think its more of the fast run-up and blow off top that happened. I think when people keep seeing Bitcoin gain 10% day after day and after day and then they get a 20% day they assume that eventually its going to drop before heading higher and people close their positions and get to re-buy later.
If Bitcoin travelled very slowly to $13K and more conservatiately then it might of broke above the $14K by now. But these fast and sharp moves are never good because it means short covering and FOMO settling in and its never good for the long term.
If Bitcoin travelled very slowly to $13K and more conservatiately then it might of broke above the $14K by now. But these fast and sharp moves are never good because it means short covering and FOMO settling in and its never good for the long term.
It can’t raise slowly or that would be too expensive for the manipulators. Because they have to fight 1800 btc a day it is significantly cheaper to raise the price in 2 days vs 20. For the past month they have been order book hunting.
https://www.amsinger.org/
If you want to learn more check out my site!
Aaron
The $13K price really has nothing to do with it, I think its more of the fast run-up and blow off top that happened. I think when people keep seeing Bitcoin gain 10% day after day and after day and then they get a 20% day they assume that eventually its going to drop before heading higher and people close their positions and get to re-buy later.
If Bitcoin travelled very slowly to $13K and more conservatiately then it might of broke above the $14K by now. But these fast and sharp moves are never good because it means short covering and FOMO settling in and its never good for the long term.
If Bitcoin travelled very slowly to $13K and more conservatiately then it might of broke above the $14K by now. But these fast and sharp moves are never good because it means short covering and FOMO settling in and its never good for the long term.
When bitcoin's price is $13,000 it would take $23.4 million per day of new LONGTERM investment to maintain that price simply to pay out the 1800bitcoin/day that miners produce. If $13,000 was maintained throughout the year it would take $8.5 billion of new unflinching holders to sustain that price. The price just took a dump to $11,760 for this reason.
Personally I think $13,000 laughably high. I think this because I use numbers and financial data to understand bitcoin. I do not wish. I do not hope. I know what a good price to buy bitcoin is because I understand the risk based on the creation cost.
If you want to understand bitcoin in a financial sense, and not in a magical & mystical sense, you can learn more at this site:
https://www.amsinger.org
Without things like creation cost and cash flow analysis I would be lost in bitcoin. I would be slave to the whims of the whales, pumping whenever they want and dumping whenever they want. Instead I use my mind and these numbers to know when it is logical and low risk to buy and conversely to sell.
Aaron
P.S. Come on trolls, I am ready for you. Only a troll sees someone using facts and data and sprays cuss words and insults. Intelligent people ask questions or make logical statements, they do not yell at numbers.
Personally I think $13,000 laughably high. I think this because I use numbers and financial data to understand bitcoin. I do not wish. I do not hope. I know what a good price to buy bitcoin is because I understand the risk based on the creation cost.
If you want to understand bitcoin in a financial sense, and not in a magical & mystical sense, you can learn more at this site:
https://www.amsinger.org
Without things like creation cost and cash flow analysis I would be lost in bitcoin. I would be slave to the whims of the whales, pumping whenever they want and dumping whenever they want. Instead I use my mind and these numbers to know when it is logical and low risk to buy and conversely to sell.
Aaron
P.S. Come on trolls, I am ready for you. Only a troll sees someone using facts and data and sprays cuss words and insults. Intelligent people ask questions or make logical statements, they do not yell at numbers.
Nice try to attract newbies that are not aware of what is going on with the market.
13k is not high considering the fact that the number of transactions that happen daily has increased significantly.
I wonder, what data do you rely your analysis on?
OP, use the fundamental approach to understand that it's plenty sustainable. But it will take time. Bitcoin, in a higher price, doesn't only attract "money" as a store of wealth/investment. It attracts capital for infrastructure too, and have it ready for the next wave.
The infrastructure does not "catch up" in time to make it sustainable. Bitcoin just passed $11k on the way down again. 13k was not sustainable at all.
Read what I replied to you. It will take time. But it will be sustainable, ultimately, and continues on to the next wave.
More miners => more secure => more confidence => more users => higher price => more miners => ...
It's there in front of you.
I think the realistic approach is that bitcoin is something that is volatile and people who are upset that they haven't made any money do not realize that they would eventually profit but that might take some time, there are still people who have bought from 20k times and maybe there are even some who haven't sold and waiting, if you wait enough I am pretty sure you would profit no matter where you buy from, however the problem arises when they want to make money quickly, this is not some "get rich quick" scheme because it is actually a currency itself and that is why it should be used to earn and spend instead of buy and sell hence if you are going to just trade it and not look at what its bringing to table the least you can do is to wait a bit in order to profit from it while us others are working on making it bigger.
Why would anyone want to buy overpriced bitcoin at 20k and wait patiently when you could buy well priced bitcoin at $3300. 6 times as much bitcoin. 6 times. That is what I do on my site. I let people know when bitcoin is high by using financial analysis something no one else has done.
https://www.amsinger.org/
I would prefer to know the appropriate time to buy bitcoin and sell to people who want to pay 20k or 13.8k
Aaron
I think the realistic approach is that bitcoin is something that is volatile and people who are upset that they haven't made any money do not realize that they would eventually profit but that might take some time, there are still people who have bought from 20k times and maybe there are even some who haven't sold and waiting, if you wait enough I am pretty sure you would profit no matter where you buy from, however the problem arises when they want to make money quickly, this is not some "get rich quick" scheme because it is actually a currency itself and that is why it should be used to earn and spend instead of buy and sell hence if you are going to just trade it and not look at what its bringing to table the least you can do is to wait a bit in order to profit from it while us others are working on making it bigger.
Jump to: